I’m a black descendant of Robert E. Lee

[Anonymous]

I am kind of struggling to understand. History books still talk about the civil war and slavery, but why glorify it and still have streets and buildings and status named after them? If I found out I was related to someone who so strongly supported and owned slaves I would not want to still see monuments in their names. History books still have Lee as a traitor to this country, and continue to have him displayed so publicly only encourages others to continue to fly the confederate flag and all it stands for

[Anonymous]

Most African Americans know they have some white ancestry, but they either don’t have the names of those ancestors or they do, but the name is just a name with no big claim to fame attached. Do you think you feel differently about being descended from the most famous Confederate General than you would about being descended from any wealthy plantation owner whose sons fought for the Confederacy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you realize that people are not trying to “erase” history. We can learn history without statues. Everybody knows Hitler’s story, not 1 statue.

Do you know when/who/why any of these statues were even erected? Do you actually know their true history?

The irony with your post is that in the same statement uou contradict and illustrate both points for me. But your aspect only shows your side of the story.

I’m black, raised in Fairfax county one of the greatest counties in the US, which is one of the greatest counties in the world. Minutes away from the largest AA population of wealth in the country, and our government. History was 100% erased, and I have experiences to prove it. McGraw-Hill left out details that addressed blacks and it minimized the story around the Civil War. They should have encouraged discussion so wisdom could evolve, not lied out of convenience.

You realize that any history of black power is associated with anger, and also a threat. Not independence and freedom despite oppression. People get really touchy and defensive over things that have nothing to do with them. They aren’t Father Time. This is why I rarely share this info. And there are MANY more like me.

Do you realize my history books were different from my relatives in Richmond, that lived off of MLK? Do you know the discussions uou have about FARMS and the veiled implications? That is hit your too. Teach all of it. No, it isn’t being taught at all.

I’ll never forget a community college course I took that had a history book that wasn’t any thicker than Gary Chapman’s 5 Loce Languages. It was the catalyst for my desire to strengthen and raise consciousness and thinking to evolve and not be supressed with a million immeasurable micro aggressions.

How easy do you think it is for a person to articulate what I’m sharing here? In the face of hostility, with a lag to the start, without exposure, and the exposure in civics is basic at best. You have to go to an HBCU to get the truth; even then, there are deep and meaningful contradictions, but at least there they can be addressed safely without styling whether or not it’s true, and trying to encapsulate the entire dilemma in the symptom of a Lee statue.

When you challenge my tangled past with an over simplification from ONE experience (just like mine is ONE experience) — you insult me. You signal that I’m seeking something that I don’t have a right to do. I’m stepping out of place. I’m challenging a norm, and no I shouldn’t ever do that. It isn’t illimités to race, or ancestry, or religion, or gender, or sexual preference. These concepts look the same at the root, even if the petals change color at times.

[Anonymous]

So no plans to get in touch with other branches?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/07/robert-e-lee-is-my-ancestor-take-down-his-statue-let-his-cause-be-lost/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you realize that people are not trying to “erase” history. We can learn history without statues. Everybody knows Hitler’s story, not 1 statue.

Do you know when/who/why any of these statues were even erected? Do you actually know their true history?

The irony with your post is that in the same statement uou contradict and illustrate both points for me. But your aspect only shows your side of the story.

I’m black, raised in Fairfax county one of the greatest counties in the US, which is one of the greatest counties in the world. Minutes away from the largest AA population of wealth in the country, and our government. History was 100% erased, and I have experiences to prove it. McGraw-Hill left out details that addressed blacks and it minimized the story around the Civil War. They should have encouraged discussion so wisdom could evolve, not lied out of convenience.

You realize that any history of black power is associated with anger, and also a threat. Not independence and freedom despite oppression. People get really touchy and defensive over things that have nothing to do with them. They aren’t Father Time. This is why I rarely share this info. And there are MANY more like me.

Do you realize my history books were different from my relatives in Richmond, that lived off of MLK? Do you know the discussions uou have about FARMS and the veiled implications? That is hit your too. Teach all of it. No, it isn’t being taught at all.

I’ll never forget a community college course I took that had a history book that wasn’t any thicker than Gary Chapman’s 5 Loce Languages. It was the catalyst for my desire to strengthen and raise consciousness and thinking to evolve and not be supressed with a million immeasurable micro aggressions.

How easy do you think it is for a person to articulate what I’m sharing here? In the face of hostility, with a lag to the start, without exposure, and the exposure in civics is basic at best. You have to go to an HBCU to get the truth; even then, there are deep and meaningful contradictions, but at least there they can be addressed safely without styling whether or not it’s true, and trying to encapsulate the entire dilemma in the symptom of a Lee statue.

When you challenge my tangled past with an over simplification from ONE experience (just like mine is ONE experience) — you insult me. You signal that I’m seeking something that I don’t have a right to do. I’m stepping out of place. I’m challenging a norm, and no I shouldn’t ever do that. It isn’t illimités to race, or ancestry, or religion, or gender, or sexual preference. These concepts look the same at the root, even if the petals change color at times.

DP but I'm having the hardest time figuring out what you're arguing for, or against. PPP was saying that removing Robert E Lee's name from a highway, or taking down statues put up during desegregation to signal to black Americans that they were/are not welcome, is not erasing history. And you're saying that they're insulting you, because other history was actually erased (black wall street, etc), and history is political. But why are you insulted by PPP's point? It seems like you are the one oversimplifying what they're saying and applying it to completely disparate situations to create a disagreement where none necessarily exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am kind of struggling to understand. History books still talk about the civil war and slavery, but why glorify it and still have streets and buildings and status named after them? If I found out I was related to someone who so strongly supported and owned slaves I would not want to still see monuments in their names. History books still have Lee as a traitor to this country, and continue to have him displayed so publicly only encourages others to continue to fly the confederate flag and all it stands for

I didn’t suggest that. I know I wrote a lot, but read it. If sometime is unclear I will try to clarify. But you do understand part of my complexity around this is that — I’m in the middle.

You’re telling me how to feel, what is right or wrong, others are too, I agree, but there is an addendum I’d like considered and the world is basically like? What? No. No way. You lie. Henry Gates doesn’t live here! Arrest this man. Rhis is reality. It’s old.

I’m one of the most genuine people you’d meet. Part of my struggle is exactly the journey to understand. Read my first sentence of the thread. It’s a discussion that I’m willing to be a bit vulnerable with, not an AMA because of my indisputable truth wisdom and expertise here.

It is complex.

We are figuring it out.

Alone.

It is also frustrating to have others arguing over us and ignoring the fact that there is no place setting for us at the table. Picking this apart is like trying to separate the meat from the sauce from the noodle in a mixed bowl of spaghetti.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Robert E. Lee had black descendants it seems like that would have received a bit more publicity. It has been documented that some of Lee's descendants married into Black families, but that is rather different from what OP is claiming. It's not like Lee has gone unstudied over the past 150 years.

DNA tests haven't been around and affordable for a long time. How else would you prove you are a descendant?

It took Jefferson's fairly well documented black ancestors decades and decades. Basically once dna proved the relationship, the old guard relented. The people who venerate Lee would try to suppress this information as much as possible, pre web.

I'm white, from the south, and have already warned my dh I probably have black relatives from slavery days. Part of my family owned slaves and the other part were possibly descended from freed slaves who passed as white. My paper trail has run out and dna is the only way to go, since my ancestors records are either lost, destroyed or never kept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m Black. I clearly have white ancestors— lots of photos of “Black” people from the 1800’s and on with white features.

So my question is:

What is it like for you to know for sure who your white ancestor was?
I feel very lucky. I know the feeling of being just a grain of sand on a beach. So once I knew something, anything it helped. It also brought up more questions and unknowns.


Does it matter to you that he is also a historical figure, and one that you have actual, specific details about?
Yes. I worship God and believe that much like many ancestors in the Bible, the idea of coming from a lineage with fault isn’t foreign. I really think that background influences my attitude.

The fact that he is a historical figure does matter. He is a major point of contention that had white people betraying our country and smearing literal feces on our congressional walls because they want to celebrate a man that I came from. That is very difficult to reconcile.

Have you ever seen Hitch? You know where Eva Mendez gets off the skis with Will Smith, and he shows her a historical document? And she flips out in distress, because he was a mass murderer? That scene comes to mind because the comic relief numbs the pain of identifying with something like this.

Do you have any plans or thoughts about ever connecting in some way with his white descendants ?
No. I’m very private and don’t like the attention. I already get more attention that I prefer. I’m an empath so feeling so much intensity of anger and sadness and fear is overwhelming for me. There is little incentive I have, but I’m not 100% opposed to something privately.

When you think about him or see statues ar things after him, does it feel like “family” for you at any level?
There is a bad joke that one of my friends makes sometimes when Trumpers get crazy (always). “Those are your people. Them yo cousins.”
It honestly just prompts questions. I don’t feel pride, I don’t feel anger, I don’t feel sadness. I have questions, more and more. I get disenchanted when I realize most of the global discussion will never mature to anything of substance, because that isn’t what broadcasters are motivated to do. Or at least they weren’t in the past. Things are changing.

I appreciate your post in part because most of us with white ancestors are dealing with unknowns — and how we integrate this lack of information into our [b]identities and our sense of ourselves.
Thank you so much, PP. you know this isn’t easy, and I’m not the timid type. But you are dead on with the complexity of the “unknowns” and its manifestation in our identity. For me, I have embraced it. I’m not ashamed. But most people aren’t informed enough to truly care for a healthy exchange around the topic. Like I said, it is almost always only in our communities.

My identity is something that I was always taught to be associated with morality and principle, the reputation you can create. So despite any success, privilege or favor, even tragedy and hardship, I worked very hard not to tie my identity to anything. By the way, I think this is one type of coping mechanism for how blacks heal from the unknowns while they’re still going on and build community from brokenness that is attacked from the inside and the outside.

That said - my story (and rhis is NOT my story, not even the beginning; it is my family history) — MY story is something I have the power and good fortune to write. I can choose to accept or deny, and proceed accordingly. Interestingly, my professional background has always led me near hallmark statues and themes around defense and government, public affairs and trying to bridge critical connections needed in complex or chaotic conjunctions. When I learned about This, there was a part that says, huh. It is in my blood. The universe led me here. That makes me feel like even though it is painful I am where I am supposed to be. It strengthened my sense of self. It also called me out of my comfort and challenged me to introspectively examine everything, but also to filter all of the information we have and always remember we know in part. My identity is found in a renewal of my mind through Christ Jesus. Much like I wouldn’t disclose my family history, I often don’t disclose my faith because my evidence is indisputable and it is rarely relevant for the purpose of a conversation.


I’m really interested in learning more about your experiences with actual “knowns”. [/b]

I’m still learning. I didn’t believe it first, challenged, asked if it was a lie. Some of the know a are ugly but it actually relieves that weird little nagging thought in your subconscious saying, “this isn’t right”’or, “something is off”. Then you realize — oh. Okay. You’re not a biological child. Oh! Okay. We were empowered with wealth but didn’t have the tools to grow it for oirselves. Overlaid in my context of faith, it truly frames my thinking in a way that seeks a new realm of space and interaction — but I’m very selective of the few that invite in because my authority in my identity isn’t up for debate. So a person has to demonstrate aptitude for an intellectual and thoughtful discussion, but also respect the integrity of raw painful emotions without trying to patch it up, or get hysterical, or defend something (again) or assign why what you know isn’t really what is right (again). The challenging is exhausting, and it doesn’t help to communicate with such intensity. It took time to build awareness and sometimes there is too much shouting.

Long way of saying the knowns are still far and few in between because every discovery begs another question.

Can you share your experience with having a traceable part so far back to the 1800s?

I found it interesting in a lot of the ancestral research that people had ancestors in the same trade! Chris Rock’s segment stands out to me from that documentary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Robert E. Lee had black descendants it seems like that would have received a bit more publicity. It has been documented that some of Lee's descendants married into Black families, but that is rather different from what OP is claiming. It's not like Lee has gone unstudied over the past 150 years.

DNA tests haven't been around and affordable for a long time. How else would you prove you are a descendant?

It took Jefferson's fairly well documented black ancestors decades and decades. Basically once dna proved the relationship, the old guard relented. The people who venerate Lee would try to suppress this information as much as possible, pre web.

I'm white, from the south, and have already warned my dh I probably have black relatives from slavery days. Part of my family owned slaves and the other part were possibly descended from freed slaves who passed as white. My paper trail has run out and dna is the only way to go, since my ancestors records are either lost, destroyed or never kept.

You have to go to the towns, refer to census, ask around, validate with tax record etc. I’ll remind you that like you, there were some branches of the family tree snapped off and thrown in the fire. And as you probably understand, our community is extremely risk averse, especially for mattes that are presented as something just to “help you”. Nah. We’re good. I haven’t even updated my info on Ancestey.com. Don’t want to.

I mean, even my great grandma had like 18 kids, and several who died. Families were huge because we worked the land. For blacks in particular we didn’t have the same access to reaources to work rheoygh our pain; we just went straight into another battlefield. Meanwhile brothers and sisters were born to a mother that had to watch forced incest and auctioning off. Engrained attitudes of not wanting to work since work was never rewarded need to be addressed, while fighting the stereotype that it is an inherent characteristic. Then going to PG county and seeing the wealth and how most families still don’t know how to manage it. They aren’t working their own land, they miss principles that uou inderarood.

It is easier for me to accept that I may never know the answers because finally, we can talk about it and share. I’m really glad that you posted. I am curious to hear about how your family regarded relatives that were black. And your great grandparents. Did the acknowledge black relatives or talk about infidelity or crime? We’re you taught that it was wrong to own people? I mean, I’m not sitting here mad at great uncle Louie because he has a ex with his daughter at his masters command, because it was that or being hung by a tree and letting the stench in a Virginia swamp send a loud message without a sound.

It’s not fair to burden descendants, and I think many families just pretended it didn’t happen, lied, or destroyed evidence. Lynchburg is real. How was it in the south? What is your family dynamic with discussing it?

Thanks for opening the discussion further, PP.

[Anonymous]

My battery is low again and I have to commute, but I’ll try to check back later to make sure I didn’t miss anything. - Me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m just curious how you know for sure, without a DNA test, that Lee is your ancestor. Are there written records beyond those placing your ancestor at his plantation or strong family lore? Not that I don’t believe that Lee was a rapist. To the contrary, a lot of white guys were raping slaves. Just wondering if you all are reasonably sure it wasn’t an overseer or visitor or son or anyone else that fathered your ancestor.

Yes. To my knowledge, and by a large account of witness. No doubt a connection will be confirmed with DNA, the issue is that it scratches off a lot of scabs without any other reason than to see what it looks like.

I don’t know if he was a rapist. I know I’ve heard both accounts, and I know we have literal wealth that is traced back to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just curious how you know for sure, without a DNA test, that Lee is your ancestor. Are there written records beyond those placing your ancestor at his plantation or strong family lore? Not that I don’t believe that Lee was a rapist. To the contrary, a lot of white guys were raping slaves. Just wondering if you all are reasonably sure it wasn’t an overseer or visitor or son or anyone else that fathered your ancestor.

To my knowledge, yes, which is part of what the elders in the family invested in to have a professional validate. I don’t know which documents he had as originals and I’m not comfortable disclosing to much because of my right to privacy and that of my family. By the way that is I think what helped identify the 3 we are connected with — obviously they tend to be well educated or an exception to what was the status quo, likely because of their property ownership. Things we can trace with tax records, census counts, names, etc. It’s like an archaeological search for bones to reconstruct an extinct dinosaur.

No doubt a connection will be confirmed with DNA, the issue is that it scratches off a lot of scabs without any other reason than to see what it looks like. It’s not a full picture — but it’s something.

I don’t know if he was a rapist, that is rhe “unknown” i mentioned with the other PP that ice somewhat had to come to peace with. I know I’ve heard both accounts, and I know we have literal wealth that is traced back to him. And there are photographs and other things I guess experts use to date things em validate. It wasn’t like a Google search. They hired someone before tracing trees online and doing dna tests became common practice..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I agree we don’t honor the man that raped my maternal grandmother. Oh, that is another conflict by the way. Every time I thought of slavery and children born from masters, I assumed it was rape. Rherw is no way that I have to go back in time and verify rhis but the information that was shared from the family reunion presentation of the person they hired said the relationship was different; he actually loved her and had a fondness for her.

I believe people use the term rape as a blanket term in these cases because of the complete imbalance of power.

It's sexual exploitation at the very least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you realize that people are not trying to “erase” history. We can learn history without statues. Everybody knows Hitler’s story, not 1 statue.

Do you know when/who/why any of these statues were even erected? Do you actually know their true history?

The irony with your post is that in the same statement uou contradict and illustrate both points for me. But your aspect only shows your side of the story.

I’m black, raised in Fairfax county one of the greatest counties in the US, which is one of the greatest counties in the world. Minutes away from the largest AA population of wealth in the country, and our government. History was 100% erased, and I have experiences to prove it. McGraw-Hill left out details that addressed blacks and it minimized the story around the Civil War. They should have encouraged discussion so wisdom could evolve, not lied out of convenience.

You realize that any history of black power is associated with anger, and also a threat. Not independence and freedom despite oppression. People get really touchy and defensive over things that have nothing to do with them. They aren’t Father Time. This is why I rarely share this info. And there are MANY more like me.

Do you realize my history books were different from my relatives in Richmond, that lived off of MLK? Do you know the discussions uou have about FARMS and the veiled implications? That is hit your too. Teach all of it. No, it isn’t being taught at all.

I’ll never forget a community college course I took that had a history book that wasn’t any thicker than Gary Chapman’s 5 Loce Languages. It was the catalyst for my desire to strengthen and raise consciousness and thinking to evolve and not be supressed with a million immeasurable micro aggressions.

How easy do you think it is for a person to articulate what I’m sharing here? In the face of hostility, with a lag to the start, without exposure, and the exposure in civics is basic at best. You have to go to an HBCU to get the truth; even then, there are deep and meaningful contradictions, but at least there they can be addressed safely without styling whether or not it’s true, and trying to encapsulate the entire dilemma in the symptom of a Lee statue.

When you challenge my tangled past with an over simplification from ONE experience (just like mine is ONE experience) — you insult me. You signal that I’m seeking something that I don’t have a right to do. I’m stepping out of place. I’m challenging a norm, and no I shouldn’t ever do that. It isn’t illimités to race, or ancestry, or religion, or gender, or sexual preference. These concepts look the same at the root, even if the petals change color at times.

The irony is your rant illustrates my point.

You have not made a point that creating statues to murderers and rapist would “preserve history” we just need to put it in the history books and teach it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So no plans to get in touch with other branches?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/07/robert-e-lee-is-my-ancestor-take-down-his-statue-let-his-cause-be-lost/

I read this article the day of publication. I think I also saw him interview or post a youtube stream or something. I found it interesting because if this is the same person, he was white. It had significant meaning because it was published on a day of importance within our family. No, I didn't have an interest then, and I don't have one now. I would rather prefer to normalize the discussion around the discomfort of mistreatment and the things that make others feel bad or guilty.