Are AP-type classes racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not improve the regular courses in high school? APs are a money maker, pure and simple. Top private schools have/are doing away with AP courses.

Do you know why they are doing away with AP classes? I am unclear on that.

Their classes are AP level or above. That's what they claim.

+1

Private schools can offer those advanced courses without calling them APs. Public schools use APs as a way to offer rigorous courses because you have to follow College Board curriculum. Otherwise you would have an ‘honors for all’ situation which is really not honors at all in public school.

Also APs get a lot of kids out of pre-req or core courses in college. Some can enter school with enough credits to graduate in three years which is an amazing money saver.

"A rose by any other name is still a rose".. in this case, "An AP class by any other name is still an AP class". They can call it whatever they want to, but the students still take the AP exams. There is a thread about this on the private school forum, and some of the parents were not happy that they were having to hire tutors or do outside prep to study for the AP exams that their private school kids were taking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

Why wouldn’t the solution be to get more kids to the AP level?

Because the designation is a farce. It's one thing to recognize that, for any number of reasons, some students struggle academically; it's another to inflate the achievements and credentials of students who, for any number of reasons, struggle less and perform as their parents and teachers expect them to.

Calling a course advanced does not mean that the students are actually advanced. Moreover, many AP students falsely and unwittingly begin to believe that they are academically advanced when they are in fact academically average. In practice, this often means that white students and parents develop an artificial sense of superiority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

There is nothing logical about what you are proposing, which would be a race to the bottom. Our society is based on hard work and achievement, and we must offer difficult coursework to our students--ALL OF THEM-- to keep them competitive in a global economy.

If students of color need extra help succeeding in these courses, then that's what they should get.

[Anonymous]

I am a teacher in a school system that does have significant racial inequities. My observation is that the problem isn't that "AP-type classes (are) raciest" as much as it is that the pathway to get to AP classes begins with TAG selection in elementary grades, and the TAG identification process is without a doubt racist and inequitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

Agree - these types of classes should be phased out entirely.

phased out so nobody gets a chance and advanced coursework? how in the world does that make sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

There is nothing logical about what you are proposing, which would be a race to the bottom. Our society is based on hard work and achievement, and we must offer difficult coursework to our students--ALL OF THEM-- to keep them competitive in a global economy.

If students of color need extra help succeeding in these courses, then that's what they should get.

Are you saying that students of color are incapable of success without, as you put it, “extra help succeeding??”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in a school system that does have significant racial inequities. My observation is that the problem isn't that "AP-type classes (are) raciest" as much as it is that the pathway to get to AP classes begins with TAG selection in elementary grades, and the TAG identification process is without a doubt racist and inequitable.

This.
We keep identifying problems yet refusing to address root causes. You can’t fix inequity in HS, college, or beyond by putting on band aids.
Dumbing down AP classes helps no one. Neither does taking them away. You want more kids to be ready for AP? Fix early education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

Agree - these types of classes should be phased out entirely.

phased out so nobody gets a chance and advanced coursework? how in the world does that make sense?

It doesn’t make sense. It’s an absurd suggestion.

[Anonymous]

So the people who want to do with away with AP classes think that “equity” means that everyone learns less and at a lower level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in a school system that does have significant racial inequities. My observation is that the problem isn't that "AP-type classes (are) raciest" as much as it is that the pathway to get to AP classes begins with TAG selection in elementary grades, and the TAG identification process is without a doubt racist and inequitable.

But people are already beyond frustrated at the slow and low pace of the gen Ed curriculum around here. Forcing everyone to do that is not the answer and “in class differentiation” is a lovely idea that in practice short changes the quicker kids the vast majority of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the people who want to do with away with AP classes think that “equity” means that everyone learns less and at a lower level.

Ding Ding! The outcomes would be more equitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in a school system that does have significant racial inequities. My observation is that the problem isn't that "AP-type classes (are) raciest" as much as it is that the pathway to get to AP classes begins with TAG selection in elementary grades, and the TAG identification process is without a doubt racist and inequitable.

This.
We keep identifying problems yet refusing to address root causes. You can’t fix inequity in HS, college, or beyond by putting on band aids.
Dumbing down AP classes helps no one. Neither does taking them away. You want more kids to be ready for AP? Fix early education.

My (white) kids went to Title I schools that were majority-minority for elementary and middle school and I agree. Two of the problems we saw -- lower-income kids move around a lot. They may not go to the same school for more than a year or two in a row, so they spend a lot of time getting re-assessed, and the principals can't assign them to classes with teachers who will be a good fit, and they don't form relationships with counselors or others who look out for them....all the things that middle-class kids from stable households experience.

Also, the teachers in Title 1 schools don't last long either, if they have the chance to move to a different school many of them move on. Our elementary school went through four principals over the 10 years my kids attended. So again, even for the kids who do stay in the neighborhood long-term, they don't have the consistency that lets people really learn their strengths and weaknesses and provide the supports and programs they need to help them.

It's always stop-and-start, and all those breaks add up. Combined with less support at home for many of them, particularly the ones whose parents have limited education, and it means they are significantly behind middle class kids by the time they get to high school just because they haven't had a consistent, intensive focus on their development from all of the adults in their lives that wealthier kids in more affluent schools experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in a school system that does have significant racial inequities. My observation is that the problem isn't that "AP-type classes (are) raciest" as much as it is that the pathway to get to AP classes begins with TAG selection in elementary grades, and the TAG identification process is without a doubt racist and inequitable.

This.
We keep identifying problems yet refusing to address root causes. You can’t fix inequity in HS, college, or beyond by putting on band aids.
Dumbing down AP classes helps no one. Neither does taking them away. You want more kids to be ready for AP? Fix early education.

My (white) kids went to Title I schools that were majority-minority for elementary and middle school and I agree. Two of the problems we saw -- lower-income kids move around a lot. They may not go to the same school for more than a year or two in a row, so they spend a lot of time getting re-assessed, and the principals can't assign them to classes with teachers who will be a good fit, and they don't form relationships with counselors or others who look out for them....all the things that middle-class kids from stable households experience.

Also, the teachers in Title 1 schools don't last long either, if they have the chance to move to a different school many of them move on. Our elementary school went through four principals over the 10 years my kids attended. So again, even for the kids who do stay in the neighborhood long-term, they don't have the consistency that lets people really learn their strengths and weaknesses and provide the supports and programs they need to help them.

It's always stop-and-start, and all those breaks add up. Combined with less support at home for many of them, particularly the ones whose parents have limited education, and it means they are significantly behind middle class kids by the time they get to high school just because they haven't had a consistent, intensive focus on their development from all of the adults in their lives that wealthier kids in more affluent schools experience.

^^I also think this is one of the things charter schools is supposed to address, although we don't have them where I live. It separates what school you go to from where you live, so even if you move your school doesn't change. Also the teachers and parents are theoretically more invested to the school because they chose to be part of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

There is nothing logical about what you are proposing, which would be a race to the bottom. Our society is based on hard work and achievement, and we must offer difficult coursework to our students--ALL OF THEM-- to keep them competitive in a global economy.

If students of color need extra help succeeding in these courses, then that's what they should get.

This. Everyone has gone mad. Now AP classes aren’t equitable and are racist? Schools can’t offer advanced classes ? Why not? Anyone can sign up for APs.

[Anonymous]

Sinking ship! Everyone jump on - they we can all equally hold our kids back.

Excellent idea! Why challenge kids who want to engage and learn more? That just doesn’t seem fair.