Are AP-type classes racist?

[Anonymous]

A recent study in Boston concluded they are. I have never seen statistics like this.


From the article: district analysis of the program found that more than 70 percent of students enrolled in the program were white and Asian, even though nearly 80 percent of all Boston public school students are Hispanic and Black. There's been a lot of inequities that have been brought to the light in the pandemic that we have to address," Cassellius told GBH News. "There's a lot of work we have to do in the district to be antiracist and have policies where all of our students have a fair shot at an equitable and excellent education

https://www.wgbh.org/news/education/2021/02/26/citing-racial-inequities-boston-public-schools-suspend-advanced-learning-classes

This is the link: https://www.wgbh.org/news/education/2021/02/26/citing-racial-inequities-boston-public-schools-suspend-advanced-learning-

[Anonymous]

I have mixed ancestry, but identify as AA. I’m also a mid-career public school teacher and have taught in a diverse variety of schools. I taught AP for three years and two of my own children have taken AP courses. Here’s my thoughts:
1) who gets selected to take AP and who gets support during the course can be shaped by systemic racism. My district had a huge problem with excluding students of color from these courses when selection was based on teacher recommendation. Once students were allowed to chose, the enrollment increased a lot temporarily. When they dropped a bit, surveys found that students of color withdrew because they felt unwelcome by the teachers and white peers. Not because the work was difficult or boring. Because they were asked if they were in the wrong classroom or not called upon unless the question was about race. When my older DD took AP, she was not invited to the elective support course that most of the white students were enrolled in. When she asked about it, the teacher told her that it was for students who needed to get a 5 to apply for highly competitive colleges and she could get into a state school or HBCU just fine with a 3. Of course, we had a meeting about that and the teacher said she meant no harm, it was just based on her experience with students like my daughter. She failed to clarify what she meant other than DD’s skin color. DD transfered to the other AP teacher and ended up earning a 5.
2) The tests themselves do not seem racially biased or class-biased in the way that the SAT can be.

[Anonymous]

PP, in your experience what do you think is the solution for the first problem? Sounds like it helps to let students choose whether they want to join advanced classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have mixed ancestry, but identify as AA. I’m also a mid-career public school teacher and have taught in a diverse variety of schools. I taught AP for three years and two of my own children have taken AP courses. Here’s my thoughts:
1) who gets selected to take AP and who gets support during the course can be shaped by systemic racism. My district had a huge problem with excluding students of color from these courses when selection was based on teacher recommendation. Once students were allowed to chose, the enrollment increased a lot temporarily. When they dropped a bit, surveys found that students of color withdrew because they felt unwelcome by the teachers and white peers. Not because the work was difficult or boring. Because they were asked if they were in the wrong classroom or not called upon unless the question was about race. When my older DD took AP, she was not invited to the elective support course that most of the white students were enrolled in. When she asked about it, the teacher told her that it was for students who needed to get a 5 to apply for highly competitive colleges and she could get into a state school or HBCU just fine with a 3. Of course, we had a meeting about that and the teacher said she meant no harm, it was just based on her experience with students like my daughter. She failed to clarify what she meant other than DD’s skin color. DD transfered to the other AP teacher and ended up earning a 5.
2) The tests themselves do not seem racially biased or class-biased in the way that the SAT can be.

Not op but thank you for sharing that. I think it’s important people know about the subtle discouragement that can and does take place. Do you have thoughts about whether APs should phased out?

[Anonymous]

DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

Agree - these types of classes should be phased out entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

Agree - these types of classes should be phased out entirely.

So does that mean no more advanced classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, in your experience what do you think is the solution for the first problem? Sounds like it helps to let students choose whether they want to join advanced classes?

DP, but what I'd like to see is: Open enrollment for all AP courses. There should be a program like AVID to provide support for underrepresented students in AP courses. Any teacher who has too many URM students drop out of AP classes should be removed from teaching AP. If there are enough teachers who are themselves AA or some other underrepresented group, it would be great to have more of those teachers handling the AP courses.

Eliminating AP classes is a terrible idea. You'd be taking something away from talented URMs who can handle the advanced coursework, but not really taking something away from wealthier white and Asian kids, who would leave for private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

Why wouldn’t the solution be to get more kids to the AP level?

[Anonymous]

No, they aren’t racist. Underrepresentation doesn’t make them racist, rather it is a symptom of deeper problems with equity in education.

[Anonymous]

FCPS is open enrollment for AP, but by the time you get to AP, the study skills are either there or not. Level IV is heavily skewed against AA students and AA students are more likely to be in underperforming ES and Middle schools. So they can enroll in AP, that isn’t enough

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

Why wouldn’t the solution be to get more kids to the AP level?

Agree. At my high school we didn’t have be selected, anybody could take them. Although they did do college and career tracking, which meant that only the “college” kids were encouraged to take AP classes, which is a whole different problem.

But yeah, the classes aren’t necessarily racist (I grew up in the south and the way AP American history was taught was definitely racist but that was an issue with the teacher).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. Phasing them out would seem to be the logical extension of a march toward equity and a reduced emphasis on tests.

Agree - these types of classes should be phased out entirely.

So does that mean no more advanced classes?

If you want equity, you cannot allow white and Asian kids academic challenges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mixed ancestry, but identify as AA. I’m also a mid-career public school teacher and have taught in a diverse variety of schools. I taught AP for three years and two of my own children have taken AP courses. Here’s my thoughts:
1) who gets selected to take AP and who gets support during the course can be shaped by systemic racism. My district had a huge problem with excluding students of color from these courses when selection was based on teacher recommendation. Once students were allowed to chose, the enrollment increased a lot temporarily. When they dropped a bit, surveys found that students of color withdrew because they felt unwelcome by the teachers and white peers. Not because the work was difficult or boring. Because they were asked if they were in the wrong classroom or not called upon unless the question was about race. When my older DD took AP, she was not invited to the elective support course that most of the white students were enrolled in. When she asked about it, the teacher told her that it was for students who needed to get a 5 to apply for highly competitive colleges and she could get into a state school or HBCU just fine with a 3. Of course, we had a meeting about that and the teacher said she meant no harm, it was just based on her experience with students like my daughter. She failed to clarify what she meant other than DD’s skin color. DD transfered to the other AP teacher and ended up earning a 5.
2) The tests themselves do not seem racially biased or class-biased in the way that the SAT can be.

Not op but thank you for sharing that. I think it’s important people know about the subtle discouragement that can and does take place. Do you have thoughts about whether APs should phased out?

No, I think advanced classes like AP, IB, Project Lead the Way, or stand alone courses should be offered under outside review and with frequent feedback from students. With oversight, the barriers I noted can be dismantled. MCPS has come a long way in their attitudes toward students with special needs taking advanced courses. White friends have noted that their now adult children with IEPs or 504 were treated similarly despite excelling academically in regular courses. Today, it would be almost unthinkable for 2E students to be blocked from advanced studies or treated dismissively once enrolled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, in your experience what do you think is the solution for the first problem? Sounds like it helps to let students choose whether they want to join advanced classes?

Yes, all students should be able to choose.

I think it is really important though to avoid creating support classes just for students of color. I think support classes should either be mandatory for all students in a particular advanced course or they should be an elective open to all students. I’ve seen some schools really misuse AVID and other programs. Some mean well, but they end up giving the impression that AVID students aren’t as capable and meanwhile, there’s a similar support class that only has white and Asian students enrolled.