Are AP-type classes racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, in your experience what do you think is the solution for the first problem? Sounds like it helps to let students choose whether they want to join advanced classes?

DP, but what I'd like to see is: Open enrollment for all AP courses. There should be a program like AVID to provide support for underrepresented students in AP courses. Any teacher who has too many URM students drop out of AP classes should be removed from teaching AP. If there are enough teachers who are themselves AA or some other underrepresented group, it would be great to have more of those teachers handling the AP courses.

Eliminating AP classes is a terrible idea. You'd be taking something away from talented URMs who can handle the advanced coursework, but not really taking something away from wealthier white and Asian kids, who would leave for private school.

Agree with all of this. When I was in HS, kids chose APs because they were interested in the subject. There weren't bonus grade points and it was harder to get an A. People who weren't interested in doing the work didn't sign up or dropped it. There were plenty of kids with B's and C's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t waste time with AP classes. DE classes are a much better way to earn college credits while still in HS.

+1 Qualified FARMS and BIOPIC students should be given free DE course during high school. That way, they can earn college credit without having it depend entirely on one end of year exam. Students also gain an understanding of the expectations for college courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, in your experience what do you think is the solution for the first problem? Sounds like it helps to let students choose whether they want to join advanced classes?

DP, but what I'd like to see is: Open enrollment for all AP courses. There should be a program like AVID to provide support for underrepresented students in AP courses. Any teacher who has too many URM students drop out of AP classes should be removed from teaching AP. If there are enough teachers who are themselves AA or some other underrepresented group, it would be great to have more of those teachers handling the AP courses.

Eliminating AP classes is a terrible idea. You'd be taking something away from talented URMs who can handle the advanced coursework, but not really taking something away from wealthier white and Asian kids, who would leave for private school.

Agree with all of this. When I was in HS, kids chose APs because they were interested in the subject. There weren't bonus grade points and it was harder to get an A. People who weren't interested in doing the work didn't sign up or dropped it. There were plenty of kids with B's and C's.

It's ridiculous to remove a teacher because "too many" URM drop out of AP.

Who establishes what is "too many"?

You need to prove that they are dropping out because the teacher is hostile or refuses to render the same assistance (after/before school hours for review, extra help, making up tests, answering questions in class etc).

There could be higher drop out rates due to the poor preparation/instruction received in earlier grades and it would be counterproductive to blame the wrong teacher(s) for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, in your experience what do you think is the solution for the first problem? Sounds like it helps to let students choose whether they want to join advanced classes?

DP, but what I'd like to see is: Open enrollment for all AP courses. There should be a program like AVID to provide support for underrepresented students in AP courses. Any teacher who has too many URM students drop out of AP classes should be removed from teaching AP. If there are enough teachers who are themselves AA or some other underrepresented group, it would be great to have more of those teachers handling the AP courses.

Eliminating AP classes is a terrible idea. You'd be taking something away from talented URMs who can handle the advanced coursework, but not really taking something away from wealthier white and Asian kids, who would leave for private school.

Agree with all of this. When I was in HS, kids chose APs because they were interested in the subject. There weren't bonus grade points and it was harder to get an A. People who weren't interested in doing the work didn't sign up or dropped it. There were plenty of kids with B's and C's.

It's ridiculous to remove a teacher because "too many" URM drop out of AP.

Who establishes what is "too many"?

You need to prove that they are dropping out because the teacher is hostile or refuses to render the same assistance (after/before school hours for review, extra help, making up tests, answering questions in class etc).

THIS!! There could be higher drop out rates due to the poor preparation/instruction received in earlier grades and it would be counterproductive to blame the wrong teacher(s) for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t waste time with AP classes. DE classes are a much better way to earn college credits while still in HS.

+1 Qualified FARMS and BIOPIC students should be given free DE course during high school. That way, they can earn college credit without having it depend entirely on one end of year exam. Students also gain an understanding of the expectations for college courses.

It doesn't really help. This is how it is at my child's high school. There are a handful of FARMS students who sign up for the classes and out of those a small number stay in and pass with a grade sufficient for credit. Open access is fine but it's not a miracle worker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, in your experience what do you think is the solution for the first problem? Sounds like it helps to let students choose whether they want to join advanced classes?

DP, but what I'd like to see is: Open enrollment for all AP courses. There should be a program like AVID to provide support for underrepresented students in AP courses. Any teacher who has too many URM students drop out of AP classes should be removed from teaching AP. If there are enough teachers who are themselves AA or some other underrepresented group, it would be great to have more of those teachers handling the AP courses.

Eliminating AP classes is a terrible idea. You'd be taking something away from talented URMs who can handle the advanced coursework, but not really taking something away from wealthier white and Asian kids, who would leave for private school.

Agree with all of this. When I was in HS, kids chose APs because they were interested in the subject. There weren't bonus grade points and it was harder to get an A. People who weren't interested in doing the work didn't sign up or dropped it. There were plenty of kids with B's and C's.

It's ridiculous to remove a teacher because "too many" URM drop out of AP.

Who establishes what is "too many"?

You need to prove that they are dropping out because the teacher is hostile or refuses to render the same assistance (after/before school hours for review, extra help, making up tests, answering questions in class etc).

There could be higher drop out rates due to the poor preparation/instruction received in earlier grades and it would be counterproductive to blame the wrong teacher(s) for it.

Yet this is unfortunately what our society is now doing. Everything is blamed on teachers. They can only do so much if a student is unprepared for the class or unable to do the work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t waste time with AP classes. DE classes are a much better way to earn college credits while still in HS.

+1 Qualified FARMS and BIOPIC students should be given free DE course during high school. That way, they can earn college credit without having it depend entirely on one end of year exam. Students also gain an understanding of the expectations for college courses.

It doesn't really help. This is how it is at my child's high school. There are a handful of FARMS students who sign up for the classes and out of those a small number stay in and pass with a grade sufficient for credit. Open access is fine but it's not a miracle worker.

+1

There is access to DE classes in many districts in the country. There are hurdles to kids taking and going to these classes including that many are outside school hours and there are no supports to get kids to go to the classes or do the work. Not many kids earn credits from these classes outside of MC and UMC students.

[Anonymous]

PP again and while I see the criticism of APs I think people forget that they are meant to be college level classes at a high school environment. This is advantageous for struggling students because they can take higher level material but still have all of the resources and supports of a high school- counselors, classes meeting daily or every other day, teachers checking in if struggling, teacher office hours, etc. The supports are not as frequent or the same in a DE class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP again and while I see the criticism of APs I think people forget that they are meant to be college level classes at a high school environment. This is advantageous for struggling students because they can take higher level material but still have all of the resources and supports of a high school- counselors, classes meeting daily or every other day, teachers checking in if struggling, teacher office hours, etc. The supports are not as frequent or the same in a DE class.

The issue is having folks in there who can't handle a college course distracting the teacher and taking time away from folks who can learn at the college level.

The racial issue is just a red herring. It really is talking about kids who can and kids who can't handle the pace and depth of the course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP again and while I see the criticism of APs I think people forget that they are meant to be college level classes at a high school environment. This is advantageous for struggling students because they can take higher level material but still have all of the resources and supports of a high school- counselors, classes meeting daily or every other day, teachers checking in if struggling, teacher office hours, etc. The supports are not as frequent or the same in a DE class.

The issue is having folks in there who can't handle a college course distracting the teacher and taking time away from folks who can learn at the college level.

The racial issue is just a red herring. It really is talking about kids who can and kids who can't handle the pace and depth of the course.

Yes, plenty of white kids who were not cut out for AP classes when I was in HS. Some stayed & struggled, some left for Honors. I suspect the better grades in Honors was better for their self esteem.