Who thinks the new TJ admissions proposal will increase URM enrollment?
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Anonymous
+1000. The culture at TJ is so toxic that most of the kids and parents there don't even realize it because it's the only thing they know from their feeder middle schools and prep classes. You see tons of parents posting on this board that they don't believe that it's so toxic, but when you get current students talking to alums from 10-20 years ago, the elders are horrified at what the school has become. Not because of the racial demographics, but because of the narratives that the kids present about what the school is and how they just accept that "that's TJ, that's what you sign up for". TJ wasn't always insanely competitive. TJ kids didn't always spend every waking hour worrying about college - but the kids still mostly got into the schools they wanted to get into. TJ kids weren't always obsessed with taking every 8th period and trying to cram in another resume-booster or another study period. |
Anonymous
Agree with this in theory, but there is no way they won’t figure that out as admissions are rolling in and then they will scramble to “fix” the glitch. I predict this “lottery” will not be done at random from the qualified pool. That would be too great “risk” that the outcome won’t be equitable. So at least for the first few years they will make sure to select by race as the top criteria in each area at the “lottery” phase. One main problem that OP touched on is the lack of outreach and prep among URM populations. But prep isn’t just a process used to get IN. It’s part of the home life and culture of those students who attend and succeed at TJ. If people don’t want the rigor and intensity to change at TJ (and also want students who are admitted under this new system to succeed there) then changing the admissions process to check the equity box is not enough, and I hope the school board knows this. We need to reach kids from URMs much earlier in their academic start. |
Anonymous
..... the fact that the classes are taught at a high level and are fast paced are correct, but the culture of cheating, racism, representation issues, and gender imbalance are all very real. Those things need to be changed. |
Anonymous
I agree that the GPA needs to be higher and there should be a requirement for Honors classes in science and math. I don't have a problem with Algebra being the only math requirement. Entry into the lottery still requires an application, indicating interest. It also requires meeting specific criteria. The lottery simply increases the chance for kids who come from schools that do not have the same after school options or cultures/opportunities of tutoring or extra STEM classes to be selected. It decreases the need to pad your application to attend. It also will bolster interested kids chances of attending High School with kids from their base school or neighborhood. That should make it a more attractive possibility for kids from schools that are under represented. I am guessing that they are not going to let lottery spaces go to waste, if there are not 70 kids who meet the requirements from a given region, I would assume that they will have a second lottery for all the applicants who did not get in from across FCPS. I also assume that they will develop a wait list based on the lottery so that if kids who are selected choose not to attend, spots open up for other kids. I suppose that families who are desperate to increase their odds of attending TJ can move to the school zones where there are fewer kids traditionally applying to TJ in order to increase their chances of attending. That would help improve some of those schools by spreading the uber driven kids from the 2 or 3 schools they are at now and sharing the wealth around the county. |
Anonymous
What you are describing here is essentially what they said they will do in the presentation. Best likely example is Prince William. Because of their large population, they have 68 lottery slots. If they don't have 68 kids that qualify for the merit lottery (which I think is probably likely because I think there will be a pretty high bar for entry and I don't think there are a ton of kids interested from PW) then those spots will revert back to the kids at the top of the FCPS Region lotteries. Additionally, because the barriers for applications are so low, there will be a fair number of families who go ahead and apply but are unsure whether they'll accept an offer - perhaps waiting to hear from the school about concrete changes made to their many cultural issues. There will be a continual rolling admissions process to keep going down the lottery list until I believe the end of the first quarter. |
Anonymous
Agree. And it won’t work initially with just this quick “five different pipelines” approach but as soon as it does, the next issue will be “why is the top half of the graduating class at TJ shutting out URM populations?” And then someone will suggest that GPAs must be a racist way to determine class rank. And the “assigning of grades” (because it has to be framed that way rather than imply that grades are earned!) will be deemed racist and/or rank-ordering students at all will be non-inclusive because competition bad. And so it continues... |
Anonymous
I went to TJ in the late 90s and it honestly seems the same now as when I went. Then and now, kids wanted good grades, wanted to get into a good college, felt pressure to take advanced courses...and this is true of top students at most any high school in America. I think there has been a general increase in pressure nationally as there are more students and the same number of elite college spots, and it's easier to apply to lots of colleges with common app and online applications, and this applies to Langley and McLean just as much as TJ. I think the biggest difference at TJ specifically is increased state graduation requirements (history, epf) have made more summer school seem necessary...so in that one respect there probably is a little more pressure. But honestly, all of the discussion reads to me like this: People who have no firsthand experience with TJ: TJ is so high stress, full of cheaters, preppers, etc. My kid will never apply. Multiple people who actually have firsthand experience with TJ: You're wrong. People who have no firsthand experience: I don't believe you. I totally see why many people think the anti-TJ posters either have sour grapes or think their kids won't get in or something. They refuse to listen to first hand testimony. |
Anonymous
Agreed!! Current TJ kids are very upset about the proposed lottery admission. They ask: Why didn't the policy makers ask us whether 3.5 GPA in middle school is equivalent to an admission test + teacher's recommendation? They ask: The people that proposed the lottery and the parents that support it themselves have never taken a class in TJ. How do they know what it takes to be successful in TJ? |
Anonymous
Another 90s TJ grad here - extremely disappointing what the school has become. So glad these changes were made. The toxic environment at the school is all my fellow grads and I talk about when talking about the school. We al have careers that current TJ students prep like crazy in hopes to achieve. None of us were part of a prepping culture. |
Anonymous
"Ruined" by being a top ranked school in the country? A long track record of successful graduates? This is "ruined"? The vast majority of counties would kill to have such a "ruined" school. |
Anonymous
Was there rampant cheating in the 90s? |
Anonymous
There is nothing wrong with that, and it's kind of fun to watch how you turn the aversion to hard work into virtue. |
Anonymous
| The only thing that will increase the # of URMs at TJ is improving preschool and early elementary education at all schools, and even before school age, with wraparound services inside and outside the school. But that's too long-term, expensive, hard and boring. The SB wants a quick fix that they can point to and say see? we did it. |
Anonymous
How much of this is due to changes at TJ and how much is due to changes in the volume of college admissions and the top colleges constantly signaling that they are looking for candidates who aren't just "normal great" like the bulk of TJ students (and many other kids at base schools) but have some special "it" quality (that, as often as not, is harder for Asian kids to demonstrate to the satisfaction of admissions officers)? You can reconstitute TJ but that doesn't make the college arms race disappear overnight. |
Anonymous
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I find it extremely racist to dismiss the lack of diversity at TJ as: those URM kids are just not interested.
I am a URM minority. My child is at TJ. So, this post is from someone who has firsthand experience with the school. The school is trying to fix the insanely huge diversity problem. No one is saying that the quality of the education has to go down. But, being the very top school in the nation (based largely on test scores) is not nearly as important to me as us giving URM children a chance to experience a high quality STEM program. And, giving the students the opportunity to work with peers from diverse backgrounds, including black and latinx families. Their "lack of interest" (which has never been proven) is likely lack of exposure to STEM, lack of resources to pursue STEM activities, and a general feeling of not being accepted in those privileged groups who do have access/resources. These uniformed and biased arguments about why URM are not currently at TJ reminds me of our country's past where white culture promoted the idea that black people were less intelligent and physically stronger so they want to work in the fields. Why would they want a STEM education? Is the current change in admission policy perfect, no. But, can we please respect that the State is trying to address a very important problem. And, they should not stop until it's addressed. They have tried other options in the past that failed. So, keep trying. I respect what they are trying to do. |