Who thinks the new TJ admissions proposal will increase URM enrollment?

[Anonymous]

I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

I wholeheartedly agree. The tragedy of it all is that the gifted URM who actually wants to go, and who had a decent chance of getting in before, will have less of a chance to get in under the lottery system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

I wholeheartedly agree. The tragedy of it all is that the gifted URM who actually wants to go, and who had a decent chance of getting in before, will have less of a chance to get in under the lottery system.

That's exactly what I was thinking. The URM who are currently at TJ are most likely there because they are exceptionally talented and belong there, but now gifted kids like them will have to rely on luck to get them in. It really IS a tragedy.

[Anonymous]

It might increase URM a bit, but I agree that it probably won't capture the gifted URM that the school was created to serve. There has to be a better way.

[Anonymous]

The way I see it, the current holistic process yields an exceptionally strong student body which results in the #1 school in America. We shouldn't just throw the entire process away because it's not perfect. We should just tweak it to achieve the desired results. The problem is lack of diversity, right? Why don't we do the current admissions process to identify the first 300 or so admittees. Then, assess the racial composition of that group, and then make the remaining selections with an eye toward balancing out the racial composition. At least this way there's more of a chance that we'll capture those prodigies out there who really need a school like TJ. If there's a legal issue with taking race into account, then we could just hold a lottery for the applicants who didn't make the first cut.

[Anonymous]

I think it will increase URM enrollment. I think there is a much better chance of having socioeconomic diversity at the school under the new proposal, which will make some kids more comfortable applying. I also feel like there's currently a perception (for the right or wrong of it) that TJ is full of kids who have been prepping for years and who continue to have tutors/Saturday school throughout high school. Many kids, even those who are hard workers, don't want to be in that environment. The lottery will help to get rid of that perception and more kids (of all races) might be comfortable applying. The new proposal will change the culture of the school and broaden the types of students it serves. That's good for some and bad for others. I don't think overall gifted URMs tend to apply to TJ under the current system and I don't know whether they'll apply under the new system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The way I see it, the current holistic process yields an exceptionally strong student body which results in the #1 school in America. We shouldn't just throw the entire process away because it's not perfect. We should just tweak it to achieve the desired results. The problem is lack of diversity, right? Why don't we do the current admissions process to identify the first 300 or so admittees. Then, assess the racial composition of that group, and then make the remaining selections with an eye toward balancing out the racial composition. At least this way there's more of a chance that we'll capture those prodigies out there who really need a school like TJ. If there's a legal issue with taking race into account, then we could just hold a lottery for the applicants who didn't make the first cut.

I wanted to add...don't cut applicants at the testing round. An applicant's total score would be the sum of the values placed on the test, ltrs of rec, essays. The first cut is based on the total score, not just the test. The second cut would be the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it will increase URM enrollment. I think there is a much better chance of having socioeconomic diversity at the school under the new proposal, which will make some kids more comfortable applying. I also feel like there's currently a perception (for the right or wrong of it) that TJ is full of kids who have been prepping for years and who continue to have tutors/Saturday school throughout high school. Many kids, even those who are hard workers, don't want to be in that environment. The lottery will help to get rid of that perception and more kids (of all races) might be comfortable applying. The new proposal will change the culture of the school and broaden the types of students it serves. That's good for some and bad for others. I don't think overall gifted URMs tend to apply to TJ under the current system and I don't know whether they'll apply under the new system.

My DS's best friend when he was at TJ is an URM and the most impressive person I've ever known of any race. I have no doubt that he breezed through the admissions process on his own merits. With a lottery, he would have just been one of thousands of hopefuls vying for 70 spots in his region. Your response takes such a cavalier attitude towards kids like him. It's like you're saying "Oh, well, too bad for kids like him. Suck it up."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The way I see it, the current holistic process yields an exceptionally strong student body which results in the #1 school in America. We shouldn't just throw the entire process away because it's not perfect. We should just tweak it to achieve the desired results. The problem is lack of diversity, right? Why don't we do the current admissions process to identify the first 300 or so admittees. Then, assess the racial composition of that group, and then make the remaining selections with an eye toward balancing out the racial composition. At least this way there's more of a chance that we'll capture those prodigies out there who really need a school like TJ. If there's a legal issue with taking race into account, then we could just hold a lottery for the applicants who didn't make the first cut.

I don't think you can legally use race as a factor the way you suggest. I also believe we should encourage students interested in STEM from a wider cross section of academic abilities than the current system allows, so I'm supportive of the new system. I would be happy with 200 lottery and 200 with a more stringent application process. I don't think FCPS will do the hybrid approach, however, because it will be more complicated to administer. The culture at TJ will change if the proposal is approved, but the school will still produce extremely capable STEM students.

[Anonymous]

I think it'll totally ruin the school.

And by lowering admission standards, now you have a lot of kids of any race there who previously wouldn't have been admitted. What happens when they can't keep up with the rigor? Do the teachers have to dumb down the material? Do they drop out? My oldest is 4 so I have no skin in the game but I'd argue kids failing out of TJ would do more harm than any benefit received from a more diverse population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it will increase URM enrollment. I think there is a much better chance of having socioeconomic diversity at the school under the new proposal, which will make some kids more comfortable applying. I also feel like there's currently a perception (for the right or wrong of it) that TJ is full of kids who have been prepping for years and who continue to have tutors/Saturday school throughout high school. Many kids, even those who are hard workers, don't want to be in that environment. The lottery will help to get rid of that perception and more kids (of all races) might be comfortable applying. The new proposal will change the culture of the school and broaden the types of students it serves. That's good for some and bad for others. I don't think overall gifted URMs tend to apply to TJ under the current system and I don't know whether they'll apply under the new system.

My DS's best friend when he was at TJ is an URM and the most impressive person I've ever known of any race. I have no doubt that he breezed through the admissions process on his own merits. With a lottery, he would have just been one of thousands of hopefuls vying for 70 spots in his region. Your response takes such a cavalier attitude towards kids like him. It's like you're saying "Oh, well, too bad for kids like him. Suck it up."

Actually, I'm not saying suck it up to kids like him. Kids like him will excel anywhere and will get into a top school regardless of whether they attend TJ. They will also take the most rigorous STEM classes offered at their base school and participate in/lead science clubs. Those kids are not dependent on the TJ name to get into top colleges. They will shine no matter what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it'll totally ruin the school.

And by lowering admission standards, now you have a lot of kids of any race there who previously wouldn't have been admitted. What happens when they can't keep up with the rigor? Do the teachers have to dumb down the material? Do they drop out? My oldest is 4 so I have no skin in the game but I'd argue kids failing out of TJ would do more harm than any benefit received from a more diverse population.

I guess it's a matter of perspective whether it will "totally ruin the school." The school currently operates where mainly uber competitive kids get in and survive. I think it should be a school that fosters STEM kids who are high performing rather than only the ones who are top 1 percent. I view the change as an improvement. It won't be number 1 anymore, but that doesn't mean it will be ruined.

[Anonymous]

“ I think it should be a school that fosters STEM kids who are high performing rather than only the ones who are top 1 percent. ”

I would like this too - and would be much more apt to encourage DCs to shoot for applying rather than under the current pressure grinder atmosphere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“ I think it should be a school that fosters STEM kids who are high performing rather than only the ones who are top 1 percent. ”

I would like this too - and would be much more apt to encourage DCs to shoot for applying rather than under the current pressure grinder atmosphere.

Yes, this.

[Anonymous]

The school will now be more for students who don’t look at it as a prize to win, but who actually have an interest in STEM. It won’t be comprised of students who prepped for an admissions process, but rather who are simply good students. It will definitely be more attractive to more URMs and more people in general as a result.

It won’t ruin the school, the schools already been ruined. This is a last chance effort to save it.