Who thinks the new TJ admissions proposal will increase URM enrollment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

What you don't understand is that many highly qualified URMs don't want to attend TJ because they think they won't fit in. DD is a straight A student in AAP at a TJ feeder and she refuses to apply to TJ because she thinks she will not fit into the culture (a culture of cheating, racism, few minorities, few girls, etc...). This is sad considering that she loves STEM and wants to be an engineer.

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

Yes. Good luck in the real world for the above girl. All this talk about how one has to be in a "diverse" environment, "diverse" environment is essential for schools etc. and then turns around and says I don't want to attend that school because I don't like dealing with Asians. So the only minority group that counts for the right "diversity" is the one with the "favored" minority.

Computer programmer who works with a ton of engineers here - I was actively discouraged away from MIT back in the day for environment concerns (though at that time it was just about few girls). Majored in computer science at a small liberal arts school where despite being the only girl in the major some years I was always treated with respect. Have always done fine in the work force. Engineering doesn't have to be a pressure cooker.

Sure, but it depends on the type of engineering you want to do and where you work. My brother is a "brogrammer" at a FAANG company in a team that builds something a lot of people use and his team is definitely a lot of people that you would encounter at TJ/Stuy (in fact some of them did go to those places), lots of workaholics, close to 100 percent men, very intense, etc. But I'm sure it isn't the same elsewhere and outside of the Silicon Valley firms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

What you don't understand is that many highly qualified URMs don't want to attend TJ because they think they won't fit in. DD is a straight A student in AAP at a TJ feeder and she refuses to apply to TJ because she thinks she will not fit into the culture (a culture of cheating, racism, few minorities, few girls, etc...). This is sad considering that she loves STEM and wants to be an engineer.

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM

Engineers tend to have INTJ personality types who obsess about details and have high passion for their work. The ones that are more extroverted tend to move out of design and into leadership roles. How would you expand beyond that personality type?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

What you don't understand is that many highly qualified URMs don't want to attend TJ because they think they won't fit in. DD is a straight A student in AAP at a TJ feeder and she refuses to apply to TJ because she thinks she will not fit into the culture (a culture of cheating, racism, few minorities, few girls, etc...). This is sad considering that she loves STEM and wants to be an engineer.

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM

Engineers tend to have INTJ personality types who obsess about details and have high passion for their work. The ones that are more extroverted tend to move out of design and into leadership roles. How would you expand beyond that personality type?

I think it really depends on the daughter's end goals and the type of team and company she wants to work at. TJ is probably good prep for a certain type of engineering gig in Silicon Valley but there are far more, very different engineering jobs out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

What you don't understand is that many highly qualified URMs don't want to attend TJ because they think they won't fit in. DD is a straight A student in AAP at a TJ feeder and she refuses to apply to TJ because she thinks she will not fit into the culture (a culture of cheating, racism, few minorities, few girls, etc...). This is sad considering that she loves STEM and wants to be an engineer.

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM

Engineers tend to have INTJ personality types who obsess about details and have high passion for their work. The ones that are more extroverted tend to move out of design and into leadership roles. How would you expand beyond that personality type?

PP - I think I get where you're trying to go, but the logical flow here was

1) She doesn't want to go to TJ because the culture of cheating, racism, few minorities (assume they meant URM), few girls

2) Then she will hate engineering because of the culture of cheating, racism, few minorities, few girls

3) THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM if that's the culture of engineering that you think she'll hate

I don't think personality type was at issue there. But I appreciate your point of INTJs and how they behave. I was one of those when I was at TJ - no longer. I just don't think obsession over details and passion for the work are restricted to racist men who cheat and are white and Asian only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

I think it will increase white kid enrollment, which is the real goal.

That may actually be one potential outcome—though I would counter that it isn’t the “real goal”. It is interesting that white kids seem to be underrepresented at TJ (when measured against the percentage of the white population in fcps, but I’ve not heard noise about that. I think people just accept that not everyone finds the pressure cooker environment all that appealing). But for those who ARE interested, at least the five zones thing may give kids from all races who are in low socio-economic areas a better shot at being admitted. I wouldn’t worry too much about an explosion in white students admitted over other groups because I would say if the application process yields a disproportionate number of whites applying they will stop that in its tracks and figure out how to mitigate that potential PR disaster before the lottery.

The school board projected numbers show white enrollment doubling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

I think it will increase white kid enrollment, which is the real goal.

That may actually be one potential outcome—though I would counter that it isn’t the “real goal”. It is interesting that white kids seem to be underrepresented at TJ (when measured against the percentage of the white population in fcps, but I’ve not heard noise about that. I think people just accept that not everyone finds the pressure cooker environment all that appealing). But for those who ARE interested, at least the five zones thing may give kids from all races who are in low socio-economic areas a better shot at being admitted. I wouldn’t worry too much about an explosion in white students admitted over other groups because I would say if the application process yields a disproportionate number of whites applying they will stop that in its tracks and figure out how to mitigate that potential PR disaster before the lottery.

The school board projected numbers show white enrollment doubling.

That's false - based on the 2024 charts they had white enrollment increasing by about 33%

They had Black enrollment increasing by about 500-600% and Hispanic enrollment increasing about 250%

As much as you want it to be, this ain't about white people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

What you don't understand is that many highly qualified URMs don't want to attend TJ because they think they won't fit in. DD is a straight A student in AAP at a TJ feeder and she refuses to apply to TJ because she thinks she will not fit into the culture (a culture of cheating, racism, few minorities, few girls, etc...). This is sad considering that she loves STEM and wants to be an engineer.

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM

Engineers tend to have INTJ personality types who obsess about details and have high passion for their work. The ones that are more extroverted tend to move out of design and into leadership roles. How would you expand beyond that personality type?

PP - I think I get where you're trying to go, but the logical flow here was

1) She doesn't want to go to TJ because the culture of cheating, racism, few minorities (assume they meant URM), few girls

2) Then she will hate engineering because of the culture of cheating, racism, few minorities, few girls

3) THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM if that's the culture of engineering that you think she'll hate

I don't think personality type was at issue there. But I appreciate your point of INTJs and how they behave. I was one of those when I was at TJ - no longer. I just don't think obsession over details and passion for the work are restricted to racist men who cheat and are white and Asian only.

At the risk of sidetracking the discussion slightly, I recently spoke with a long-time engineering professor who lamented what he viewed as a recent shift in engineering: he said that in the past, cheating was very rare in engineering, and that at one moment over the past decade, there was a drastic shift and cheating became very common. He attributed the change to a recent large influx of people into engineering due to the fact that it's a profitable major.

[Anonymous]

Rise in High school cheating is actually a national problem. Unfortunately it happens everywhere. And yes including TJ.

TJ actually participated in a national survey, the cheating problem is much less in TJ than everywhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rise in High school cheating is actually a national problem. Unfortunately it happens everywhere. And yes including TJ.

TJ actually participated in a national survey, the cheating problem is much less in TJ than everywhere else.

Is it at TJ, or getting in to TJ?

[Anonymous]

As for stress and mental problem, check out fcps youth survey, both depression and suicidal thoughts are significantly lower in TJ than other schools in fairfax county.

People spread rumors about TJ here like crazy. Don’t believe it, don’t base your decision on it. Ask someone you know, go visit, check out school magazines, School videos . Majority of kids love TJ and cherish what it has to offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rise in High school cheating is actually a national problem. Unfortunately it happens everywhere. And yes including TJ.

TJ actually participated in a national survey, the cheating problem is much less in TJ than everywhere else.

Is it at TJ, or getting in to TJ?

At TJ. I don’t know about the other.

I wish I could say there is zero cheating at TJ. But I would be either lying or an ignorant fool.

Same situation in other high schools too if you really know what’s going on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thing but I wanted to ask whether people think TJ is even a "goal" for high-achieving URMs here? I am not as familiar with the NOVA population but in NYC, where I have many friends who teach or are school administrators, I know that for many URM families there (who are Dominican and/or Puerto Rican, so the population in NOVA is a little different) they are very Catholic and the end goal or dream is not the STEM public magnets but rather getting a scholarship or aid or saving enough for getting into Catholic school. To them, that is the American Dream or end goal, not Stuy or Bronx Science. My friend taught in Queens and that is what all the top kids in her classes and their families talked to her about, not Stuy.

Ding ding ding!

You can make it a lottery but they still won’t even apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thing but I wanted to ask whether people think TJ is even a "goal" for high-achieving URMs here? I am not as familiar with the NOVA population but in NYC, where I have many friends who teach or are school administrators, I know that for many URM families there (who are Dominican and/or Puerto Rican, so the population in NOVA is a little different) they are very Catholic and the end goal or dream is not the STEM public magnets but rather getting a scholarship or aid or saving enough for getting into Catholic school. To them, that is the American Dream or end goal, not Stuy or Bronx Science. My friend taught in Queens and that is what all the top kids in her classes and their families talked to her about, not Stuy.

Ding ding ding!

You can make it a lottery but they still won’t even apply.

+1

FCPS is chasing a problem that mostly doesn't exist. The URMs don't want to go to TJ. For those who do want to apply, I am sure everyone agrees FCPS should increase the percentage admitted for URMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thing but I wanted to ask whether people think TJ is even a "goal" for high-achieving URMs here? I am not as familiar with the NOVA population but in NYC, where I have many friends who teach or are school administrators, I know that for many URM families there (who are Dominican and/or Puerto Rican, so the population in NOVA is a little different) they are very Catholic and the end goal or dream is not the STEM public magnets but rather getting a scholarship or aid or saving enough for getting into Catholic school. To them, that is the American Dream or end goal, not Stuy or Bronx Science. My friend taught in Queens and that is what all the top kids in her classes and their families talked to her about, not Stuy.

Ding ding ding!

You can make it a lottery but they still won’t even apply.

+1

FCPS is chasing a problem that mostly doesn't exist. The URMs don't want to go to TJ. For those who do want to apply, I am sure everyone agrees FCPS should increase the percentage admitted for URMs.

You don’t think the flagship school for the county and possibly the state having negligible numbers of black and Hispanic students is a problem?

[Anonymous]

The more these twerps try to manufacture arguments about why nothing should change at TJ the more certain FCPS will become that they need major change. I’m not sure if they’re obnoxious or just insanely neurotic, but they are absolutely digging the grave of TJ in its current incarnation.