Help me teach my son about women’s rights!

[Anonymous]

Women do rape boys and it usually is not prosecuted and boys are made to feel they should feel lucky instead of raped.

How is he wrong in that statement?

[Anonymous]

Op here

Gonna try clarifying the conversation about Scouts again. I informed him that the girls would not be integrated into his troop or camps. He was not aware that this is the case. He was relieved to know this. This wasn’t me trying to make him think like me. This was me giving him facts about the situation in our particular area. When he said it teaches them to be men, I asked him for examples of what he learned that’s only for men. This is a reasonable question. Again, I wasn’t asking him to think like me. Just asking him to explain what he meant by that specifically. He knew that I was a GS leader and asked me why they don’t just stick with that program. He was genuinely confused as to why they would feel the need to transfer, which is understandable. He thought they were lateral programs. In our area, Boy Scouts is a much superior program. So I answered him and explained why they feel the need to switch. I gave him examples such as the water safety badge - in BD this was several days of lifesaving training. It was rigorous. For GS, the water safety badge was a 30 min class at a water park and then they got to go play the rest of the day.

I’m not sure what I should have done differently. I realize my response wasn’t perfect but I also don’t think it was F’d up enough to send him down this rabbit hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don’t know where this came from. He was NOT raised this way...but DS(14) is completely anti-feminism and proclaims to be pro men’s rights! He thinks men are more oppressed than women, I guess. I just saw that he posted something about women also being rapists and pedophiles, so people should stop saying things like “teach your sons not to rape.” Ugh. We have discussed these issues his entire life. He should get it, but he doesn’t. He has two older sisters who are very vocal on civil rights issues. Talking isn’t getting through to him. Any other ideas to make him understand that men are not the oppressed ones, specifically white men like him? He speaks out in defense of all other marginalized groups, and is likely LGBTQ. For some reason he is strong ngly anti-feminism. Any movies that might resonate with him?

Actually, statistics on college admission disagree with you. The white male applicants are the least desirable applicants.

OP doesn't care about that. It doesn't suit her narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don’t know where this came from. He was NOT raised this way...but DS(14) is completely anti-feminism and proclaims to be pro men’s rights! He thinks men are more oppressed than women, I guess. I just saw that he posted something about women also being rapists and pedophiles, so people should stop saying things like “teach your sons not to rape.” Ugh. We have discussed these issues his entire life. He should get it, but he doesn’t. He has two older sisters who are very vocal on civil rights issues. Talking isn’t getting through to him. Any other ideas to make him understand that men are not the oppressed ones, specifically white men like him? He speaks out in defense of all other marginalized groups, and is likely LGBTQ. For some reason he is strong ngly anti-feminism. Any movies that might resonate with him?

Actually, statistics on college admission disagree with you. The white male applicants are the least desirable applicants.

OP doesn't care about that. It doesn't suit her narrative.

Men have never been oppressed, and therefore they are not desirable college applicants.

[Anonymous]

Gay men haven't been oppressed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don’t know where this came from. He was NOT raised this way...but DS(14) is completely anti-feminism and proclaims to be pro men’s rights! He thinks men are more oppressed than women, I guess. I just saw that he posted something about women also being rapists and pedophiles, so people should stop saying things like “teach your sons not to rape.” Ugh. We have discussed these issues his entire life. He should get it, but he doesn’t. He has two older sisters who are very vocal on civil rights issues. Talking isn’t getting through to him. Any other ideas to make him understand that men are not the oppressed ones, specifically white men like him? He speaks out in defense of all other marginalized groups, and is likely LGBTQ. For some reason he is strong ngly anti-feminism. Any movies that might resonate with him?

Actually, statistics on college admission disagree with you. The white male applicants are the least desirable applicants.

OP doesn't care about that. It doesn't suit her narrative.

Men have never been oppressed, and therefore they are not desirable college applicants.

That's a non-sequitur.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Gonna try clarifying the conversation about Scouts again. I informed him that the girls would not be integrated into his troop or camps. He was not aware that this is the case. He was relieved to know this. This wasn’t me trying to make him think like me. This was me giving him facts about the situation in our particular area. When he said it teaches them to be men, I asked him for examples of what he learned that’s only for men. This is a reasonable question. Again, I wasn’t asking him to think like me. Just asking him to explain what he meant by that specifically. He knew that I was a GS leader and asked me why they don’t just stick with that program. He was genuinely confused as to why they would feel the need to transfer, which is understandable. He thought they were lateral programs. In our area, Boy Scouts is a much superior program. So I answered him and explained why they feel the need to switch. I gave him examples such as the water safety badge - in BD this was several days of lifesaving training. It was rigorous. For GS, the water safety badge was a 30 min class at a water park and then they got to go play the rest of the day.

I’m not sure what I should have done differently. I realize my response wasn’t perfect but I also don’t think it was F’d up enough to send him down this rabbit hole.

Simple solution. Move him to a troop that has girls. Both our Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are fully integrated. Its great. You can easily transfer him so I don't get the drama. Its ok for kids to be in gender specific groups, but its not my preference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Gonna try clarifying the conversation about Scouts again. I informed him that the girls would not be integrated into his troop or camps. He was not aware that this is the case. He was relieved to know this. This wasn’t me trying to make him think like me. This was me giving him facts about the situation in our particular area. When he said it teaches them to be men, I asked him for examples of what he learned that’s only for men. This is a reasonable question. Again, I wasn’t asking him to think like me. Just asking him to explain what he meant by that specifically. He knew that I was a GS leader and asked me why they don’t just stick with that program. He was genuinely confused as to why they would feel the need to transfer, which is understandable. He thought they were lateral programs. In our area, Boy Scouts is a much superior program. So I answered him and explained why they feel the need to switch. I gave him examples such as the water safety badge - in BD this was several days of lifesaving training. It was rigorous. For GS, the water safety badge was a 30 min class at a water park and then they got to go play the rest of the day.

I’m not sure what I should have done differently. I realize my response wasn’t perfect but I also don’t think it was F’d up enough to send him down this rabbit hole.

Simple solution. Move him to a troop that has girls. Both our Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are fully integrated. Its great. You can easily transfer him so I don't get the drama. Its ok for kids to be in gender specific groups, but its not my preference.

That seems like the opposite of the solution. He's telling the op he wants a male-only space. Why would she put him in an integrated troop if that was the case? He feels unheard. This sort of move would simply confirm that as fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about you consider his viewpoint that he doesn't want girls in Boy Scouts? Maybe it all stems from this. Boys act differently when there are girls around. The dynamics change. If he is gay then maybe he doesn't want the boys
in his troop to start talking about and flirting with girls. It was his safe place and now it is changing.

This was a couple of years ago. He now realizes what we tried to tell him in the beginning - the girls have their own troops. The boys have absolutely no interaction with the girls. They are totally separate.

So the entire exercise was a failure. His experience changed but not to his benefit, he got in trouble with his mother/parents when he complained about it, and it didn't improve Boy Scouts either.

Poor kid.

He did not get in trouble at all. Not even close. We had a calm and rational conversation. I simply let him know that the girls would be totally separate, and I asked him what experiences he has had that should only be available to men. This is a reasonable question. He also said that they should just do Girl Scouts. I explained to him that this would be a great solution if the two organizations were similar. I was a GS leader for several years. I explained to him, with examples, that Boy Scouts is much more robust and the Eagle has much more clout than the Gold Award in GS. I did not attack him for his views in any way. We just had a conversation. He was given an opportunity to explain his viewpoint, but he had nothing. Just wanting to keep this boys club.

He's a kid, you're his mom. You told him he was wrong. And then you expected him to give you a good argument in response?

Basically, you're explaining to him that he is responsible for the first 200 years of this country's history of white men being in power and needs to pay for it, without also noticing the past 50-70 years of white men being feminists and allies and making changes. He's pushing back against the unfairness of your viewpoint but he's just a kid and he doesn't know how to do it.

Sounds like you may be part of OPs son's online experience. All you're saying is your a victim. OPs son is a victim. You want things a certain way, with not regard for the privileges you benefit from. That's not being "responsible for" or "paying for" anything. It acknowledges what is. Just bc you don't like hearing it, doesn't mean it's wrong or unfair. And allowing that thinking, just perpetuates people with views like yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don’t know where this came from. He was NOT raised this way...but DS(14) is completely anti-feminism and proclaims to be pro men’s rights! He thinks men are more oppressed than women, I guess. I just saw that he posted something about women also being rapists and pedophiles, so people should stop saying things like “teach your sons not to rape.” Ugh. We have discussed these issues his entire life. He should get it, but he doesn’t. He has two older sisters who are very vocal on civil rights issues. Talking isn’t getting through to him. Any other ideas to make him understand that men are not the oppressed ones, specifically white men like him? He speaks out in defense of all other marginalized groups, and is likely LGBTQ. For some reason he is strong ngly anti-feminism. Any movies that might resonate with him?

Actually, statistics on college admission disagree with you. The white male applicants are the least desirable applicants.

OP doesn't care about that. It doesn't suit her narrative.

What narrative is that? Men are NOT more oppressed than women, notwithstanding your single stat, with no citation (which I will take for the sake of argument is correct).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm dealing with this push back against family values with my 14 y.o. DS, too. Though with him its more with the issues of economic inequality and racism - one minute he sounds like a liberal and the next a conservative! I think its just what they have to do to become the independent people that they will become. Instead of arguing with him, I've found it better to gently remind him of what facts he may be missing. Staying calm and trying to have a discussion is key.

Op here. This has been my situation exactly. I thought we were having good discussions until I realized he has this other persona online. Our discussions aren’t enough to counter the content he is receiving online. I have got to figure out how to get him away from that. I just don’t know how to do this without making things worse. I’m afraid he will see me as a woman trying to control a man and make him double down on these views.

Different poster here. My son takes the position that you can both support police and try to end racism and systemic inequities. But his liberal friends tear him apart for this. Because, #ACAB. So he’s turned to conservative friends for support. And unfortunately there is more messaging going on than pro police. There is a lot of this misogynistic, racist talk.

I’m not trashing liberals. I am liberal. I’m trashing the all-or-nothing mentality out there. Life is complicated. Problems are complicated. Solutions are even more complicated. But few in social media get that.

This. It often shocks people that I am a black liberal who is not anti police, who doesn't want to abolish the police all together. There's a lot we have to be all or nothing about nowadays, racism and sexism being two of those things, but in addressing those issue we have to be careful we don't leave room for those with toxic ideologies to draw our kids in with sweet words because our kids express frustration with something anf we shut them down for fear they might be racist or sexist.

No one wants to "abolish the police altogether." Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm dealing with this push back against family values with my 14 y.o. DS, too. Though with him its more with the issues of economic inequality and racism - one minute he sounds like a liberal and the next a conservative! I think its just what they have to do to become the independent people that they will become. Instead of arguing with him, I've found it better to gently remind him of what facts he may be missing. Staying calm and trying to have a discussion is key.

Op here. This has been my situation exactly. I thought we were having good discussions until I realized he has this other persona online. Our discussions aren’t enough to counter the content he is receiving online. I have got to figure out how to get him away from that. I just don’t know how to do this without making things worse. I’m afraid he will see me as a woman trying to control a man and make him double down on these views.

Different poster here. My son takes the position that you can both support police and try to end racism and systemic inequities. But his liberal friends tear him apart for this. Because, #ACAB. So he’s turned to conservative friends for support. And unfortunately there is more messaging going on than pro police. There is a lot of this misogynistic, racist talk.

I’m not trashing liberals. I am liberal. I’m trashing the all-or-nothing mentality out there. Life is complicated. Problems are complicated. Solutions are even more complicated. But few in social media get that.

This. It often shocks people that I am a black liberal who is not anti police, who doesn't want to abolish the police all together. There's a lot we have to be all or nothing about nowadays, racism and sexism being two of those things, but in addressing those issue we have to be careful we don't leave room for those with toxic ideologies to draw our kids in with sweet words because our kids express frustration with something anf we shut them down for fear they might be racist or sexist.

No one wants to "abolish the police altogether." Jesus.

Not the black liberal poster but the one whose son has turned to conservative friends.

Think about teens. They see things as all or nothing. They are holier than thou. Right? So yes, there are TONS of teens right now saying abolish the police, that black police are part of the problem (they choose to work for a racist system, ACAB (all cops are bad). And so the message “Defund the Police” to teens? It absolutely means abolish the police. Tik Tok spurs this on, using its selective algorithms to fill more of their scenes with more of what they’ve already viewed. And guess what? Folks who make TikTok videos aren’t trying to be rational. They are trying to get views and likes. So their stuff is very over the top. Happy when cops die ACAB, and so on. I have the screen shots to prove it. It’s NOT reality but that’s what these kids see over and over and over.

Do NOT make the mistake of seeing your teens’ political experience through adult eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Gonna try clarifying the conversation about Scouts again. I informed him that the girls would not be integrated into his troop or camps. He was not aware that this is the case. He was relieved to know this. This wasn’t me trying to make him think like me. This was me giving him facts about the situation in our particular area. When he said it teaches them to be men, I asked him for examples of what he learned that’s only for men. This is a reasonable question. Again, I wasn’t asking him to think like me. Just asking him to explain what he meant by that specifically. He knew that I was a GS leader and asked me why they don’t just stick with that program. He was genuinely confused as to why they would feel the need to transfer, which is understandable. He thought they were lateral programs. In our area, Boy Scouts is a much superior program. So I answered him and explained why they feel the need to switch. I gave him examples such as the water safety badge - in BD this was several days of lifesaving training. It was rigorous. For GS, the water safety badge was a 30 min class at a water park and then they got to go play the rest of the day.

I’m not sure what I should have done differently. I realize my response wasn’t perfect but I also don’t think it was F’d up enough to send him down this rabbit hole.

I posted on page 2 and have a son almost the same age. He used to be in Scouts and was upset when the decision was made about girls joining. I also have a daughter involved in Girl Scouts and my approach was completely different. I agreed with my son. I don’t think girls should be allowed to join Boy Scouts PE vs versa. It’s different if we are talking about transgender so I’m not referring to those children. In our area, Boy Scouts is more practical and fun. Girl Scouts is more outdated and very boring. Instead of the girls joining the Boy Scout troops they should work on resigning the Girl Scout troops. I understand why the boys were upset by this decision, even if they were in separate troops.

[Anonymous]

-redesigning not resigning

[Anonymous]

It’s just cognitive dissonance. As you said he wasn’t raised that way so he doesn’t relate to these assertions about women’s rights at all and he internalizes comments, similar to people who bristle when they hear about white privilege.