French ban on burqas - what is your take?

[Anonymous]

French authorities say that only about 1,900 women wear the burqa or the niqab, two versions of the full covering with a mesh or slit for the eyes. That’s .038 percent of France’s Muslim population of about 5 million that’s now deemed a threat to the French Republic and its values.

The burqa does not fit comfortably with Western sentiments. It’s closed; Westerners are open. They want to see people’s faces. It’s also viewed as a prison for women – even if Muslim women are free to choose it. And it symbolizes fundamentalist Islam, which conjures up images of terrorism. That’s perhaps why the Dutch and Austrians are also discussing a burqa ban.

But sentiments shouldn’t be confused with bedrock freedoms, including the right to practice one’s religion. Being uncomfortable with another’s faith or even dress – and encoding that discomfort in law – puts one on the slippery slope to official discrimination. Will Sikh turbans be next?

There are security reasons for why we want to see people's faces.

And fundamentalist Islam IS associated with terrorism.

There are justifications for the ban that go beyond just being "uncomfortable" with this mode of dress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You bad bad mom!
I would never tell my daughter that you show your knees because your religion requires you to do so.
How do you know that the woman you were referring to was not dressed like that because she chose to?

???
Which religion encourages women to bare their knees??

Are you suggesting that women just think "Hey, it's wonderful to be completely covered in flowing robes from head to toe, peering through a little slit in my veil to see where I'm going. It's even comfortable on the beach and swimming in the ocean! Totally my choice, I want to be shapeless, formless, barely visible. This is just how I choose to dress, for myself."

Try to ask them to wear a little black dress and you'll see them uncomfortable!
YOU would hate to wear that as much as they would not be comfortable wearing your "show off" clothing.
How deep do you know them to come publicly and state that they're not choosing to dress themselves like that?

[Anonymous]

I believe that you just made my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

French authorities say that only about 1,900 women wear the burqa or the niqab, two versions of the full covering with a mesh or slit for the eyes. That’s .038 percent of France’s Muslim population of about 5 million that’s now deemed a threat to the French Republic and its values.

The burqa does not fit comfortably with Western sentiments. It’s closed; Westerners are open. They want to see people’s faces. It’s also viewed as a prison for women – even if Muslim women are free to choose it. And it symbolizes fundamentalist Islam, which conjures up images of terrorism. That’s perhaps why the Dutch and Austrians are also discussing a burqa ban.

But sentiments shouldn’t be confused with bedrock freedoms, including the right to practice one’s religion. Being uncomfortable with another’s faith or even dress – and encoding that discomfort in law – puts one on the slippery slope to official discrimination. Will Sikh turbans be next?

There are security reasons for why we want to see people's faces.

And fundamentalist Islam IS associated with terrorism.

There are justifications for the ban that go beyond just being "uncomfortable" with this mode of dress.

There are security reasons going on now re: using blankets while in the plane, carrying liquids in the plane and we're all fussing because of newer regulations. People feeling that the body scans are invasive and all.
They want their modesty and preferences respected as much as we want ours. How ridiculous is it that in the name of security we want them to show their faces (violation of modesty for some) if we don't want to show under our clothing for the same reason?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

French authorities say that only about 1,900 women wear the burqa or the niqab, two versions of the full covering with a mesh or slit for the eyes. That’s .038 percent of France’s Muslim population of about 5 million that’s now deemed a threat to the French Republic and its values.

The burqa does not fit comfortably with Western sentiments. It’s closed; Westerners are open. They want to see people’s faces. It’s also viewed as a prison for women – even if Muslim women are free to choose it. And it symbolizes fundamentalist Islam, which conjures up images of terrorism. That’s perhaps why the Dutch and Austrians are also discussing a burqa ban.

But sentiments shouldn’t be confused with bedrock freedoms, including the right to practice one’s religion. Being uncomfortable with another’s faith or even dress – and encoding that discomfort in law – puts one on the slippery slope to official discrimination. Will Sikh turbans be next?

There are security reasons for why we want to see people's faces.

And fundamentalist Islam IS associated with terrorism.

There are justifications for the ban that go beyond just being "uncomfortable" with this mode of dress.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I believe that you just made my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've seen a women in full burqa in Target of all places. It's a head-turner for sure when you see one of those -- kind of chilling, even. The woman seemed almost ghostlike. Imagine having to wear one of those things or risk a beating. Horrible.

How do you know that she's doing it to avoid being beaten up?
What if it's her choice?
What if she's wearing it just to try it on?
I went to Asia and wore a saree, bindi, mangalsutra, bangles and bichiya even though I was not born a Brahmin nor am I a Hindu.
I bet if I wear all this here people will make assumptions based on the way I'm dressed but just because I'm wearing it, it doesn't mean I'm submissive to that culture or that I approve whatever customs are connected to those who started such traditions.
Where is the freedom we all brag about?

[Anonymous]

I think the whole cultural relativism argument for Burqa's is a bit extreme. There is a big difference between the hijab and burqa. The burqa is dehumanizing in a way that business suits aren't. I come from a culture where many women wear this. I had to put one on once when travelling to a very conservative location, and I myself felt like it was extremely demeaning even though I was very used to seeing them around. Societies where burqa's are mandated or the norm have extremely low rates of female well-being (e.g. education, health, judicial rights etc..) While the burqa is certainly not a cause for that, it is reflective of a general attitude of reduced regard for women.

Also, beyond that as many others have pointed out, there are practical (security, reasons for identification) issues for this.

I am a muslim and as a minority, recognize the need for tolerance and understanding of different religions and cultures. But I really can't defend the burqa in any way shape or form.

[Anonymous]

I support the ban on burqas, simply because they do pose a security risk. Granted maybe only .038% of French women were them, but what do you think the odds are that a terrorist plot to bomb a building would involve two or more men in burqas? Probably a lot higher than .038%, I'd say...

France is a secular state, so thus the ban on all head coverings is within their right and their social mores. That would not fly in the US, but to each his/her own.

It's not PC to say it, but I'd support a ban on those things in the US too, even if it means a ban on my outward displays of religion - - just to keep church and state separate. But I don't want to hear people whining about how they can't wear their shape-shifting cloaks either.

[Anonymous]

When will we ban the use of underwear? They pose a security threat too as we saw a few weeks ago the guy trying to explode the plane stuffing explosives inside his pants.

[Anonymous]

I wish we'd ban religion altogether.

[Anonymous]

I support the ban on burqas, simply because they do pose a security risk. Granted maybe only .038% of French women were them, but what do you think the odds are that a terrorist plot to bomb a building would involve two or more men in burqas? Probably a lot higher than .038%, I'd say...

And this has happened, where?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I am always somewhat shocked to see a fully-veiled woman, it's hard to see that this law is anything other than an attack on Muslims.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/the-monitors-view/2010/0127/What-s-hiding-behind-France-s-proposed-burqa-ban

French authorities say that only about 1,900 women wear the burqa or the niqab, two versions of the full covering with a mesh or slit for the eyes. That’s .038 percent of France’s Muslim population of about 5 million that’s now deemed a threat to the French Republic and its values.

The burqa does not fit comfortably with Western sentiments. It’s closed; Westerners are open. They want to see people’s faces. It’s also viewed as a prison for women – even if Muslim women are free to choose it. And it symbolizes fundamentalist Islam, which conjures up images of terrorism. That’s perhaps why the Dutch and Austrians are also discussing a burqa ban.

But sentiments shouldn’t be confused with bedrock freedoms, including the right to practice one’s religion. Being uncomfortable with another’s faith or even dress – and encoding that discomfort in law – puts one on the slippery slope to official discrimination. Will Sikh turbans be next?

Yes. In fact, along with crucifixes and hijab, they have been banned in schools. France is a secular state and does not promise freedom of religion. They are concerned by the symbolism of the fundamental (and radical) nature of Islam represented by the small population of Muslims who choose or are required to wear a burqa. That is why they are considering banning it. It is their country, and their right to ban it in their country. The US promises freedom of religion. Frankly, prevailing French sentiment seems to be along the lines of "if you want to wear a burqa, either go home or piss off to the US, they'll let you do it there". ANd frankly, I wish we wouldn't either.

PPs have talked about it being the choice for many Muslim women who do it. Really? If that's what you're taught from cradle onwards, is it a true choice? Or are you essentially brainwashed into it?

[Anonymous]

Precisely. They are creating this law targeted at a tiny, already marginalized minority. It is an attack on Islam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Precisely. They are creating this law targeted at a tiny, already marginalized minority. It is an attack on Islam.

Can't you read? Or follow a coherent argument? Most of the issues revolve around preserving a secular state, not "persecuting" Islam. Like in most countries, if you can't follow the prevailing protocol of the country, part of your freedom of expression and freedom of choice is the freedom to express your disapproval by choosing to go somewhere where you feel more accepted. Like in a country that accepts and encourages fundamentalist traditions of Islam. Outside of the Industrialized First World, back a few centuries.