Integrated Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you believe that systemic racism should be dismantled and that Black Lives Matter then your school choices should reflect those values. It's not complicated.

Sorry but I don't believe sending my child into the void of incompetence is dismantling racism. If anything, it's propping up a school system that itself fundamentally racist in addition to being incompetent. When the adults in charge of DCPS learn to manage a school effecticely, then we can talk. The option of charter middle schools is the only reason people are willing to live EOTP at all.

There is actually a lot of good data out there that suggests otherwise. You might find this book, which goes through a comprehensive economic study on segregation helpful: "Children of the Dream: Why School Integration Works" by Dr. Rucker Johnson. https://gspp.berkeley.edu/research/selected-publications/children-of-the-dream-why-school-integration-works

Which DC public high school would you send your own children to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some interesting background here:

https://www.dcpolicycenter.org/publications/landscape-of-diversity-in-dc-public-schools/

Notably, 20% of kids in DC are white, but only 10% of public school (including charter) are.

This is interesting. So can we conclude that fully half of white people with kids in DC have chosen to enroll them in private schools?

It would have been a better statistic if it hadn't included 3 year olds.

Exactly!

So tired of younger people conflating Bright Horizons with “private school.”

These discussions should be limited to compulsory grades.

Yeah, this is obviously particularly true way WOTP where there is likely not a PK3 w/in even remotely acceptable commuting distance. People who live in UNW aren't opting out of the lottery because they're racist or classist. Same is true for PK4 for people in zones w/o enough space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you believe that systemic racism should be dismantled and that Black Lives Matter then your school choices should reflect those values. It's not complicated.

Sorry but I don't believe sending my child into the void of incompetence is dismantling racism. If anything, it's propping up a school system that itself fundamentally racist in addition to being incompetent. When the adults in charge of DCPS learn to manage a school effecticely, then we can talk. The option of charter middle schools is the only reason people are willing to live EOTP at all.

There is actually a lot of good data out there that suggests otherwise. You might find this book, which goes through a comprehensive economic study on segregation helpful: "Children of the Dream: Why School Integration Works" by Dr. Rucker Johnson. https://gspp.berkeley.edu/research/selected-publications/children-of-the-dream-why-school-integration-works

I am aware of that research. I poured 3 years of my life into quality improvements at our EOTP Title I. But children grow faster than schools. And the leadership and staff at this school was so profoundly incompetent that eventually I just gave up. Keeping a calendar, basic communications, even writing a coherent newsletter seemed to be beyond them. Everything was last-minute, chaotic, under-planned, and teacher turnover was sky-high. DCPS has a lot of crap admin staff and crap principals. Nothing will change unless people get real about this.

[Anonymous]

As a longtime educator in DC, I think widespread integrated schools won't happen without major government action, and that might not work either. Because of the housing segregation in the city, most neighborhoods won't have schools that are that diverse, at least above the Preschool/PreK level. The few schools that are fairly diverse will be:

-Some charter schools (not the no-excuses kind) that draw from various demographic groups.
-A few schools in gentrifying neighborhoods, or in neighborhoods that are already gentrified but the school hasn't yet. Some may stay pretty diverse (Bancroft), while others may switch to being not diverse in the opposite direction by becoming largely White. Look at the demographics of Brent or Ross from 15 years ago compared to today.
-Deal, Hardy, and Wilson, which have diverse schools as feeders.

Some families of color and white families value diversity, which draws them to the types of schools listed above. Others don't make that a priority. Those that don't make diversity a major factor are usually then fine with high-achieving schools like KIPP (if they are Black), or going to WOTP schools /moving to the suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a longtime educator in DC, I think widespread integrated schools won't happen without major government action, and that might not work either. Because of the housing segregation in the city, most neighborhoods won't have schools that are that diverse, at least above the Preschool/PreK level. The few schools that are fairly diverse will be:

-Some charter schools (not the no-excuses kind) that draw from various demographic groups.
-A few schools in gentrifying neighborhoods, or in neighborhoods that are already gentrified but the school hasn't yet. Some may stay pretty diverse (Bancroft), while others may switch to being not diverse in the opposite direction by becoming largely White. Look at the demographics of Brent or Ross from 15 years ago compared to today.
-Deal, Hardy, and Wilson, which have diverse schools as feeders.

Some families of color and white families value diversity, which draws them to the types of schools listed above. Others don't make that a priority. Those that don't make diversity a major factor are usually then fine with high-achieving schools like KIPP (if they are Black), or going to WOTP schools /moving to the suburbs.

Stuart-Hobson should stay/become more diverse too. L-T and Watkins are both truly diverse and will remain that way for some time (Watkins likely forever) and, even as/if they trend whiter, JO Wilson will ensure S-H remains diverse. Likewise, Jefferson is positioned to become more diverse if/when more Brent and Van Ness kids opt in and Amidon-Bowen becomes more diverse. Really, it’s the elementary schools with smaller catchment zones that are the issue... and then convincing UMC parents to opt into middles.

SWW is also quite diverse and will remain that way by design.

[Anonymous]

Also, Deal is not particularly socioeconomically diverse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a longtime educator in DC, I think widespread integrated schools won't happen without major government action, and that might not work either. Because of the housing segregation in the city, most neighborhoods won't have schools that are that diverse, at least above the Preschool/PreK level. The few schools that are fairly diverse will be:

-Some charter schools (not the no-excuses kind) that draw from various demographic groups.
-A few schools in gentrifying neighborhoods, or in neighborhoods that are already gentrified but the school hasn't yet. Some may stay pretty diverse (Bancroft), while others may switch to being not diverse in the opposite direction by becoming largely White. Look at the demographics of Brent or Ross from 15 years ago compared to today.
-Deal, Hardy, and Wilson, which have diverse schools as feeders.

Some families of color and white families value diversity, which draws them to the types of schools listed above. Others don't make that a priority. Those that don't make diversity a major factor are usually then fine with high-achieving schools like KIPP (if they are Black), or going to WOTP schools /moving to the suburbs.

Stuart-Hobson should stay/become more diverse too. L-T and Watkins are both truly diverse and will remain that way for some time (Watkins likely forever) and, even as/if they trend whiter, JO Wilson will ensure S-H remains diverse. Likewise, Jefferson is positioned to become more diverse if/when more Brent and Van Ness kids opt in and Amidon-Bowen becomes more diverse. Really, it’s the elementary schools with smaller catchment zones that are the issue... and then convincing UMC parents to opt into middles.

SWW is also quite diverse and will remain that way by design.

It has to be tied to economic diversity within the housing stock of a catchment zone,which can be improved with zoning that allows for diverse housing stock (apartments and houses). But there is also this problem of housing values that are inflated just because the schools are better...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a longtime educator in DC, I think widespread integrated schools won't happen without major government action, and that might not work either. Because of the housing segregation in the city, most neighborhoods won't have schools that are that diverse, at least above the Preschool/PreK level. The few schools that are fairly diverse will be:

-Some charter schools (not the no-excuses kind) that draw from various demographic groups.
-A few schools in gentrifying neighborhoods, or in neighborhoods that are already gentrified but the school hasn't yet. Some may stay pretty diverse (Bancroft), while others may switch to being not diverse in the opposite direction by becoming largely White. Look at the demographics of Brent or Ross from 15 years ago compared to today.
-Deal, Hardy, and Wilson, which have diverse schools as feeders.

Some families of color and white families value diversity, which draws them to the types of schools listed above. Others don't make that a priority. Those that don't make diversity a major factor are usually then fine with high-achieving schools like KIPP (if they are Black), or going to WOTP schools /moving to the suburbs.

Stuart-Hobson should stay/become more diverse too. L-T and Watkins are both truly diverse and will remain that way for some time (Watkins likely forever) and, even as/if they trend whiter, JO Wilson will ensure S-H remains diverse. Likewise, Jefferson is positioned to become more diverse if/when more Brent and Van Ness kids opt in and Amidon-Bowen becomes more diverse. Really, it’s the elementary schools with smaller catchment zones that are the issue... and then convincing UMC parents to opt into middles.

SWW is also quite diverse and will remain that way by design.

It has to be tied to economic diversity within the housing stock of a catchment zone,which can be improved with zoning that allows for diverse housing stock (apartments and houses). But there is also this problem of housing values that are inflated just because the schools are better...

I mean, some zones are also just incredibly small. Part of the reason I think L-T will eventually become more gentrified than Watkins, is that it literally covers only north side of D through south side of H NE; 2nd-12th Sts. And even that has a chunk taken out of it. Given that it's mostly in the historic district and subject to a height cap b/c of proximity to the Capitol, it just isn't going to have inexpensive housing. I think the Ross zone is similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a longtime educator in DC, I think widespread integrated schools won't happen without major government action, and that might not work either. Because of the housing segregation in the city, most neighborhoods won't have schools that are that diverse, at least above the Preschool/PreK level. The few schools that are fairly diverse will be:

-Some charter schools (not the no-excuses kind) that draw from various demographic groups.
-A few schools in gentrifying neighborhoods, or in neighborhoods that are already gentrified but the school hasn't yet. Some may stay pretty diverse (Bancroft), while others may switch to being not diverse in the opposite direction by becoming largely White. Look at the demographics of Brent or Ross from 15 years ago compared to today.
-Deal, Hardy, and Wilson, which have diverse schools as feeders.

Some families of color and white families value diversity, which draws them to the types of schools listed above. Others don't make that a priority. Those that don't make diversity a major factor are usually then fine with high-achieving schools like KIPP (if they are Black), or going to WOTP schools /moving to the suburbs.

Stuart-Hobson should stay/become more diverse too. L-T and Watkins are both truly diverse and will remain that way for some time (Watkins likely forever) and, even as/if they trend whiter, JO Wilson will ensure S-H remains diverse. Likewise, Jefferson is positioned to become more diverse if/when more Brent and Van Ness kids opt in and Amidon-Bowen becomes more diverse. Really, it’s the elementary schools with smaller catchment zones that are the issue... and then convincing UMC parents to opt into middles.

SWW is also quite diverse and will remain that way by design.

It has to be tied to economic diversity within the housing stock of a catchment zone,which can be improved with zoning that allows for diverse housing stock (apartments and houses). But there is also this problem of housing values that are inflated just because the schools are better...

You must not talk to Capitol Hill realtors. Local housing values are not inflated because schools are better. Most CH buyers don't give a hoot about the state of local public schools. Not even a quarter care.

[Anonymous]

One of the problems is the schools are too small. DCPS has way too much packed schools that were built for 300 students. Combine 2 or 3 of these schools and you would get schools that better reflect the city.

[Anonymous]

You'd also get schools that are far too big to serve little kids well. Who wants their kid in an elementary school with 900 students if there's a good alternative? That's public middle school size, not elementary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you believe that systemic racism should be dismantled and that Black Lives Matter then your school choices should reflect those values. It's not complicated.

Sorry but I don't believe sending my child into the void of incompetence is dismantling racism. If anything, it's propping up a school system that itself fundamentally racist in addition to being incompetent. When the adults in charge of DCPS learn to manage a school effecticely, then we can talk. The option of charter middle schools is the only reason people are willing to live EOTP at all.

There is actually a lot of good data out there that suggests otherwise. You might find this book, which goes through a comprehensive economic study on segregation helpful: "Children of the Dream: Why School Integration Works" by Dr. Rucker Johnson. https://gspp.berkeley.edu/research/selected-publications/children-of-the-dream-why-school-integration-works

Which DC public high school would you send your own children to?

I'm sure your question is to prove that some HS are better than others. And I agree. I don't think this book is saying that all schools are currently equal so no problems here. It is pointing to the mechanisms that can spur investments to create equity. And I think most scholars would agree the change is going to come fastest in elementary. But, since you asked, here is my list (though my child is not yet high school age).

Banneker or School Without Walls if my child qualified and got in- no question
Duke Ellington if my child was into the arts and qualified
Wilson if in bounds
I think Eastern will take longer but will be likely the next HS to show faster improvement in outcomes
Coolidge will take longer but I think the Wells Middle will help spur investment


There are plenty of charters I would send my kid too. I think there can be a healthy debate on whether charter helped or hurt segregation issues. Ultimately it would be better if all the neighborhood schools were basically equal in all aspects (demographics, performance, teacher quality, and on and on). Did charters hurt that process ? Yes. But some of them also sped up adoptions of new practices which are improvements on traditional models and helped clear the way for DCPS to adopt those same aspects. Would DCPS eventually have gotten there without charters. I believe yes. But here we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a longtime educator in DC, I think widespread integrated schools won't happen without major government action, and that might not work either. Because of the housing segregation in the city, most neighborhoods won't have schools that are that diverse, at least above the Preschool/PreK level. The few schools that are fairly diverse will be:

-Some charter schools (not the no-excuses kind) that draw from various demographic groups.
-A few schools in gentrifying neighborhoods, or in neighborhoods that are already gentrified but the school hasn't yet. Some may stay pretty diverse (Bancroft), while others may switch to being not diverse in the opposite direction by becoming largely White. Look at the demographics of Brent or Ross from 15 years ago compared to today.
-Deal, Hardy, and Wilson, which have diverse schools as feeders.

Some families of color and white families value diversity, which draws them to the types of schools listed above. Others don't make that a priority. Those that don't make diversity a major factor are usually then fine with high-achieving schools like KIPP (if they are Black), or going to WOTP schools /moving to the suburbs.

Stuart-Hobson should stay/become more diverse too. L-T and Watkins are both truly diverse and will remain that way for some time (Watkins likely forever) and, even as/if they trend whiter, JO Wilson will ensure S-H remains diverse. Likewise, Jefferson is positioned to become more diverse if/when more Brent and Van Ness kids opt in and Amidon-Bowen becomes more diverse. Really, it’s the elementary schools with smaller catchment zones that are the issue... and then convincing UMC parents to opt into middles.

SWW is also quite diverse and will remain that way by design.

It has to be tied to economic diversity within the housing stock of a catchment zone,which can be improved with zoning that allows for diverse housing stock (apartments and houses). But there is also this problem of housing values that are inflated just because the schools are better...

You must not talk to Capitol Hill realtors. Local housing values are not inflated because schools are better. Most CH buyers don't give a hoot about the state of local public schools. Not even a quarter care.

This is not true. The Brent zone has long had a built in bump. The Maury zone is starting to get one, but it's not quite as pronounced (in part because some of the housing stock is cheaper for other reasons -- e.g., quite far East and/or very far from the metro). The real thing has always been that Brent & Maury zoned houses move super quickly and often before they officially go on the market at all. Tons of people are looking for a house "in Brent or Maury." Our local realtors were just telling us that they are just starting to get people who have widened that to include L-T as well; one was actually asking us what we'd heard about the school, because no one talked about it when his kids were in ES (like 7-8 years ago) and now it's always in the maybe bucket at least. Watkins has gone in and out of fashion, usually with the quality of the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems is the schools are too small. DCPS has way too much packed schools that were built for 300 students. Combine 2 or 3 of these schools and you would get schools that better reflect the city.

You clearly haven't be WOTP lately.

[Anonymous]

DC decided it was better to offer an alternative to failing schools in the form of charter schools rather than fix and integrate public schools. I'm not saying this was a bad decision, just that now that they have gone all in on charters, its going to be hard to unring that bell and make public schools attractive to families. My wish would be for more integrated neighborhoods, but until that happens, for an excellent, walkable public school in every neighborhood.