Pay-to-Play Sport at Private HS employing club coach - what's normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please say the school.

I would bet SJC.

Soccer?

[Anonymous]

The world is filled with grifters and conmen. That’s never going to change. You would hope that your kid’s school would be a sanctuary from that. Sadly, it’s not. I don’t blame the scam artists, I blame the administrators. You wouldn’t tolerate other types of predators on campus, why would you tolerate financial predators?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please say the school.

I would bet SJC.

I am betting SJC boys soccer. I have heard several families complain that unless you do his clubs your kid not only rides the bench but is cut.

Not true. He looks for top talent and has recruited some outside of his club. Parents kill me who enroll their children in these athletic powerhouses and question why their mediocre child ride the bench. These coaches are getting paid to WIN not play for fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any chance the club kids play more because they are better, practice more, etc? Just wondering if there us more yo it then nepotism.

Yatzee

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the first I've heard about this going on in St. Johns' soccer program but it doesn't surprise me. We were consideing St. Johns for our son who is a baseball player. St. Johns has a reputation as the best baseball program around- they have won the wcac for the last 5 or 6 years. Their head coach and his brother who is an assistant run a private travel program called Diamond Skills. Diamond Skills also runs baseball camps at St. Johns. If you look on their site the camps are $400 or $500 a week. But here's where it’s worse than with soccer- we heard you HAVE TO play for Diamond Skills or you are not allowed to play baseball at St. Johns. We heard a few players were kicked out of the program this summer because they played for other travel programs and not Diamond Skills. Two of them are in 10th grade and are verbally committed to ACC schools. The other is in 11th grade and is committed to an SEC school. Why does the school let them do it? I think it's just wrong and don't really understand it. I also think it's ironic that this is a Catholic school- nice values you're teaching the kids. Our son plays for a very good travel program and isn't considering St. Johns anymore.

My son played baseball at SJC. Maybe the biggest regret of his life. He was a top area youth player in an excellent travel organization and when we looked at SJC he was promised the world by Coach Gibbs. Playing time; development; exposure and recruiting assistance. When we met him he showed us all the great facilities and he talked about their reputation of winning and sending players to play in college. Smoke and mirror. All he cared about was winning and making money. My son ended up having a chance to play in college but at a much lower level then he hoped and planned. By his senior year friends of his who he played with before SJC had improved much more then he did and had scholarship offers from good division 1 schools. Those kids got a lot more recruiting exposure with their travel teams then my son got with Diamond Skills, which as a previous poster said they were forced to play for. They also went to big recruiting showcases that my son wasn't able to go to and thats where a lot of the college coaches were. Also if I'm being honest, part of the reason they went to better colleges is because they got better then he did in high school, but it wasn't because of a lack of effort by my son. He worked out with the SJC team year around and worked really hard. Other then getting faster and stronger he didn't really improve. He looks back and says there was just a lot of wasted time. What makes me sad is that he stopped enjoying baseball and missed out on a lot. I remember playing high school sports as one of the most fun and exciting times of my life, and I feel like he totally missed out on all that. The crazy thing is that we spent a lot of money for this. Not just tuition but also to be a part of the baseball team there. We paid thousands of dollars a year to play Diamond Skills and for the camps and work outs. We are not wealthy and I really regret our decision for him to go there. His friends who went to publics spent a lot less money, did better and had more fun.

If the original person is talking about the SJC soccer coach you should know it is going on with other sports there too. The administration knows it is going on and has been since before our son went there, and they're OK with it. Maybe it works out for some people but not from what I saw with most of my son's team mates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the first I've heard about this going on in St. Johns' soccer program but it doesn't surprise me. We were consideing St. Johns for our son who is a baseball player. St. Johns has a reputation as the best baseball program around- they have won the wcac for the last 5 or 6 years. Their head coach and his brother who is an assistant run a private travel program called Diamond Skills. Diamond Skills also runs baseball camps at St. Johns. If you look on their site the camps are $400 or $500 a week. But here's where it’s worse than with soccer- we heard you HAVE TO play for Diamond Skills or you are not allowed to play baseball at St. Johns. We heard a few players were kicked out of the program this summer because they played for other travel programs and not Diamond Skills. Two of them are in 10th grade and are verbally committed to ACC schools. The other is in 11th grade and is committed to an SEC school. Why does the school let them do it? I think it's just wrong and don't really understand it. I also think it's ironic that this is a Catholic school- nice values you're teaching the kids. Our son plays for a very good travel program and isn't considering St. Johns anymore.

Deeply disappointing this is happening at SJC. It is the exact OPPOSITE of the values I expected from the school. So I'm left telling my son - "You see how that coach behaves? That's the type of person you never want to be in life." Not the life lesson I was expecting from a HS sport or a Catholic HS.

[Anonymous]

Has anybody actually said it was SJC? No. It happens at every athletic powerhouse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually said it was SJC? No. It happens at every athletic powerhouse

Sorry, but you're wrong. My son went to Gonzaga, which is currently the overall top sports school in the DC area. It does not happen there.

[Anonymous]

Right, it doesn't happen at Gonzaga. Gonzaga just recruits from all over the DMV and Annapolis and Frederick etc. And how many of their star football, basketball, and lacrosse players are 1-2 years older then they should be for their grade? Quite a few, I assure you. Just like SJC and DeMatha you say? If you are a regular kid who could have played football or basketball at Gonzaga 30-35 years ago, now you can do crew or cross-country.

The whole things stinks and not just at SJC and Gonzaga.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Right, it doesn't happen at Gonzaga. Gonzaga just recruits from all over the DMV and Annapolis and Frederick etc. And how many of their star football, basketball, and lacrosse players are 1-2 years older then they should be for their grade? Quite a few, I assure you. Just like SJC and DeMatha you say? If you are a regular kid who could have played football or basketball at Gonzaga 30-35 years ago, now you can do crew or cross-country.

The whole things stinks and not just at SJC and Gonzaga.

Different poster, but vigorous recruiting is not the same as the sort of corruption/self-dealing OP and the baseball posters are describing. You know going in whether a HS recruits heavily or not, and can choose whether you like that model or would prefer a different one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is very common in swimming as well. At both clubs my kid swam, coaches only promoted those who also swam on their side gigs like summer leagues, clinics, took private lessons. I guess all sorts are money making machines now. It is very hard to find training environment where promotion is always directly related to performance.

I think it’s a little bit different when you’re talking about kids paying tens of thousands of dollars to go to private schools, and then the coaches at those schools require the kids to pay them extra thousands out of season. Criminal.

I agree (I am a swim mom). The worst thing is that talented children are wasting time instead of getting the training they need, and athlete's time is very limited - they have so much to do in middle/high school!
I would have just paid to such school coach, my child's time is more valuable. Switching teams also causes stress, etc.

I find that strange because swimming is objective...you're either fast or you're not. What do you mean coaches only "promoted" certain kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is very common in swimming as well. At both clubs my kid swam, coaches only promoted those who also swam on their side gigs like summer leagues, clinics, took private lessons. I guess all sorts are money making machines now. It is very hard to find training environment where promotion is always directly related to performance.

I think it’s a little bit different when you’re talking about kids paying tens of thousands of dollars to go to private schools, and then the coaches at those schools require the kids to pay them extra thousands out of season. Criminal.

I agree (I am a swim mom). The worst thing is that talented children are wasting time instead of getting the training they need, and athlete's time is very limited - they have so much to do in middle/high school!
I would have just paid to such school coach, my child's time is more valuable. Switching teams also causes stress, etc.

I find that strange because swimming is objective...you're either fast or you're not. What do you mean coaches only "promoted" certain kids?

You would be surprised how many kids with superior official times are not promoted vs those with lesser results but on the coaches summer leagues, friends etc. It’s impossible to fight with: they can refer to technique, age etc.

[Anonymous]

A lot of this is why we encouraged our athlete to choose a school for academics and keep the school sports secondary. Club athletics is in one lane; academics is in another lane. As a bonus he gets to have a great time playing for the school and having team success in a less competitive league and it is all about fun and good sportsmanship and school spirit and everyone is encouraged to be involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually said it was SJC? No. It happens at every athletic powerhouse

Don’t know if OP was referring to SJC and soccer, but OP describes what is occurring there. It is not a secret within the coach’s club. He has no qualms about saying ‘his’ (club) players will make the school team first and making commitments long before tryouts. He also tells his club families that having to coach the school team is not what he wants to do because it requires him to coach players that aren’t with his club, but he does it to get access to the school’s facilities and families for his business. He is a difficult person to put it mildly and it will be interesting to see how much the administration will tolerate. I suppose as long as the team is successful, the school will continue to look the other way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually said it was SJC? No. It happens at every athletic powerhouse

Don’t know if OP was referring to SJC and soccer, but OP describes what is occurring there. It is not a secret within the coach’s club. He has no qualms about saying ‘his’ (club) players will make the school team first and making commitments long before tryouts. He also tells his club families that having to coach the school team is not what he wants to do because it requires him to coach players that aren’t with his club, but he does it to get access to the school’s facilities and families for his business. He is a difficult person to put it mildly and it will be interesting to see how much the administration will tolerate. I suppose as long as the team is successful, the school will continue to look the other way.

If SJC baseball is any indication, the administration will tolerate a lot and look the other way as long as the team is winning. That is all that matters.