Where is that school where teachers actually appreciate parents suggestions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here - I read the part about the teacher telling the student to save the crying for something important - I have a 5 yo boy - and I can tell when he's dramatizing for effect - especially if he thinks that he's not getting his way for something. I can become "cold" and "uncomforting" during those moments, because I have found that if I provide an audience for his dramatics, he spins out - if I say that "it's enough" - I found that he stops almost immediately, and is generally all smiles within a couple minutes. Limits are key - and ESPECIALLY with dawdlers - otherwise, how will you ever teach them that their schedules are not the center of the universe? My tirade - but I think that this is one of the problems with many of the kids growing up now is this awesome sense of entitlement because adults around them have responded to their every mood swing - ok, so you didn't get a good night's sleep - next time you'll get a better night's sleep, and today is no reason to make everyone else's life miserable with attitude. My two cents. FWIW. oh, and NOT a teacher.

Yup. Also, I think OP's frame "how do you respond when kids cry?" doesn't make much sense. Depends on why the kid is crying. Sympathy makes sense when the kid has scraped a knee or been treated badly. Matter-of-factness makes sense when crying/begging is an attempt to make things come out the way you want them to. The difference between the principal's response and the teacher's could well be situational rather than a matter of personality or style. You empathize not simply because you are empathetic but because you can imagine yourself having the same reaction under similar circumstances and you think it's a reasonable/fair/understandable/legitimate reaction. Mom can sympathize based on a different understanding of the circumstances (it sucks to be tired and hungry in an environment where no one is sympathetic -- here's a hug, let's get you some food and make sure you get to bed early tonight).

[Anonymous]

I also agree with 8:36 but the Head of School is the last resort. You need to follow SOP and take this to the next in line which is usually the division head - should it go this far.

If you jump over people or bother the Head with a small issue (big to you, small to them), you are only going to tick everyone off. You need to think about what you might need assistance with down the road - they will be unlikely to help on something more important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the 21:50 poster from yesterday. I think 8:36 above gave excellent advice and is what I have always done. Internally I seethe LOL, but externally I am all politeness, following the rules, making this a win-win, blah, blah, blah.

3) She continues to interact with your son in ways that are concerning to you and ineffective with him, and you need to come back together to make a plan.

I wonder what people suggest when this is the scenario that continues to happen. When the teacher, despite ignoring one-offs, despite working with child on issues, despite being the good parent and the good school citizen, the teacher continues to act in ways that are harmful to your child, WHAT do you do? At SOME point, you need to do something different. We are having a very hard time this year, having exchanged numerous e-mails, phone conferences, pleasant, cordial facw to face meetings (all in Q1, OY!), this teacher is still not responding to her in appropriate ways. We have never, ever had this much trouble in a year and seriously, from my perspective, behaviorally this is the best year for her yet. She's getting older, she's maturing, she's growing into her emotions. But this guy is just nuts with her and they are oil and water.

I guess I can just chalk it up to a bad year and hope she isn't too badly damaged at the end of it. Oddly, this does not feel satisfactory to me.

I'm the poster you quoted, and I have to say that I think the situation you describe is very different from the one the OP describes. You've got a teacher who is repeatedly showing themselves to be a bad fit for your child. The comment you quoted has a very different feel to me from the one the OP quoted, it was dismissive and shaming.

I think from something else you posted that your child is in a public school (correct me if I'm wrong). In most public schools the logical next step would be a counselor or school social worker, division heads are more of a private school phenomena. I would approach it as -- my daughter is having this experience, and demonstrating these behaviors. How can we help her?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. That's exactly how I feel too. BTW, to other posters, my child does actually have mild attention issues. Teacher is aware of this. Empathy is great for all kids, but necessary for the kid who neurologically is struggling to keep pace. He does a great job of keeping pace, but he still struggles with some things. As I said, he was tired that day because he woke up twice the night before. What does it cost a teacher to show some empathy..regardless of whether he caused himself to lose his snack? The empathy is to help diffuse the high emotions thats all. It's not meant as a reward when a child ISN"T at fault and deprived when a child IS at fault.

DC's teachers just can't seem to distinguish between criticism and suggestions. Yes, there's a fine line. But if said politely and truly as suggestions, guess what...IT'S A SUGGESTION! If said negatively, to condemn only, it's a criticism.

I am thinking of asking the Head of School for help. She is a warm, empathetic person who has a gift for speaking politely.

attention issues? Does he have an IEP or 504 accommodations?

another teacher . . .

[Anonymous]

You know - empathy goes both ways. Have you ever asked your daughter to consider why the teacher is acting in such a way? Have you suggested that she modify her behavior vs. assuming that she cannot? I know by age 5 my very active kids were able to grasp this concept. In fact they have all had good years with teachers that other parents did everything in their power to get thrown out of the school (and - after the hysterical parents left - are now considered two of the best teachers at the school) I think behavior can be corrected just the same as behavior is learned. Running home day after day is a great way to get attention and learned behavior. Please consider this -

[Anonymous]

attention issues? Does he have an IEP or 504 accommodations?

ADHD and other issues are often not diagnosed until older than 5 (More typically 7+) because at age 5 is is hard to tell a kid who has ADHD or from just being 5.

I would approach it as -- my daughter is having this experience, and demonstrating these behaviors. How can we help her?

I appreciate you input. And my DD is different from the OP's DS (sorry to create the tangent OP) in that she is older and her behaviors are more longstanding. At this point it's clear that these behaviors are part of her. The issue is this teacher fundamentally disagrees with us and continues to use a method of dealing with her that does not work. Unfortunately, in our situation, leaving this classroom means leaving a particular program that is a good fit for her in other ways. It's frustrating. We work with specialists to help her, but she is not "diagnosable". She's anxious enough to have problems, but not so anxious as to have an IEP. It's kind of pathetic to wish your child was worse off, because then they would qualify for help/accommodations.

Matter-of-factness

It's possible to be matter of fact, while also being empathetic. They are not mutually exclusive. But I do agree that if it's a one time occurrence, I would let it go.

[Anonymous]

I used to be a teacher...am I allowed to post?

I think it is a bit naive to assume that our five year old children are RELIABLE narrators of their own lives. OP, I think, in a nutshell, you are taking your child too seriously.

This does not mean you ignore what your kid says or chronic problems, but a rough afternoon w/o a snack DOES NOT mandate calls to the head or even a discussion with the teacher.

I will chill out or homeschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

attention issues? Does he have an IEP or 504 accommodations?

ADHD and other issues are often not diagnosed until older than 5 (More typically 7+) because at age 5 is is hard to tell a kid who has ADHD or from just being 5.

Your said yourself, " BTW, to other posters, my child does actually have mild attention issues. Teacher is aware of this." So is this just from daily observation or has the child been evaluated by a professional?

[Anonymous]

OP here. WOW. Thank you thank you thank you to everyone who posted. Yes, even to those who disagree with me. I appreciate all of the posts. I'm trying hard..I really really am to see all sides of this. I am.

I didn't want to say this. Makes me nervous to do so. But I want to know the truth of what is going on here.

This is not the first incident. The others have been petty though so we never went to the Head of School about them. Little things - the school didn't prohibit backpack w wheels so we used it one day because his backpack was getting wayy to heavy for him. At pickup he was slow and unable to manage it well up the hill to my car. So teacher actually put handlebar down and put it on his back. He'd already been complaining of the original one being heavy. This one with wheels was about 4 lbs heavier! Then she made him walk up the hill! He was slow and grimacing but never complained. So I merely said when they arrived to my car: "Ohh, thats wayy too heavy for him to carry on his back. " Then she chided me for letting him bring one to school. Okay no problem we went back to his original backpack.

We discussed this backpack issue over email and we went back and forth three times trying to figure out ideas to make it lighter for DC. Previously I emailed her three times in about six weeks of school. She got upset that I was emailing her too much so complained to the Head of School. We were called in to speak with the Head, who said I could email her anytime and she's thrilled to get email from parents, no matter on what subject, but try to limit email to the teacher. Okay no problem. We stopped emailing teacher. But I felt really betrayed. Why couldn't she have simply TOLD me first that we're emailing too much and to curb the email ?

Next issue - and maybe worst one so far. She actually asks DC if he is of a particular religion (choosing not to mention our religion). DC replies, "YES." Then proceeds to ask, "Is your mommy (this religion) too?" "YES." "And is your daddy (this religion) too?" "YES." By this time I gave up. I decided it's pointless to argue the necessity of asking my five yr old about his religion. But DH was very disturbed. He did go and speak to the Head of School. He wondered, what motivation could a teacher possibly have to ask about the religion of every one of our family members? DC said class was not discussing religion generally at all that day. Head of School seemed disturbed too and said she would talk to teacher that day. Nobody got back to us about why that question was asked. We didn't pursue it further either.

THere's more - DC is a dawdler because of his attention issue. So to motivate him to move faster, they instituted a reward system. I love that this school only does positive reinforcement. But it means he must wear a string with a card around his neck. When he is good, he earns a star on it. When he doesn't card remains blank. I felt bad for him having to wear this openly around his neck. It's like the Scarlet Letter. Why can't this all be done discreetly I thought. So I suggested that maybe we could do this in a more discreet way to teacher. Teacher says no need to beause DC is fine with it. If he wasn't fine he would have yanked it off his neck. ??? DC is tryingto be obedient to earn those stickers, so why would he yank it off his neck? SO I ask DC how he feels. He tells me he doesn't care all that much about what other kids think, but admits he feels a tad embarrassed over it and prefers it could be done under the radar. He says he is aware that it's a symbol of an area he needs to work at. He also told me he is the only one in class who seems to have to wear this thing. But teacher says not true, several kids wear it also. What does it cost this teacher to make this system more discreet? I feel that she just hates to take suggestions from me, regardless of whether they have merit or make sense. I want to make sure DC's self esteem is preserved. I want to make sure other children do not think less of him. So what's wrong with looking into our suggestions for making it more discreet? What would she lose in that?

Sorry for this long post.
Despite having issues with this teacher I will say there are lots of positives with her. She's bubbly, high energy, generally fair, and a decent person. She's not warm and fuzzy and I do sort of expect that for kindergarteners. She seems better suited for 5th graders, not five year olds in some ways. But I sense that she has a hard time simply taking suggestions from parents. There's nothing wrong with taking suggestions from parents. It doesn't mean you're a loser teacher. It simply means that somebody might have an idea that just might make your life and your student's life a little better and easier. What's wrong with just hearing a suggestion or two?

[Anonymous]

ADHD and other issues are often not diagnosed until older than 5 (More typically 7+) because at age 5 is is hard to tell a kid who has ADHD or from just being 5.

Your said yourself, " BTW, to other posters, my child does actually have mild attention issues. Teacher is aware of this."

Sorry, I am not the OP, just an observer.

Most psychologists will not disgnose ADHD until a child is at least 7 because a) in many cases the attention issues are simple immaturity that will be grown out of and b) there are other potential causes for concern that can be hard to tease out from ADHD at younger ages. Things like anxiety, OCD and autism spectrum disorders can have distractability components.

[Anonymous]

OP, despite all of the hints/ outright statements, you apparently Just Aren't Getting This. (Have you ever heard the term "helicopter parent?" It's not a compliment.)

You need to back off.

You cannot fight all of your baby's battles, nor solve all of his problems for him. You are going to end up creating problems that are even worse than these perceived slights that you describe.

Nothing that you detail here is alarming or even out of the ordinary.

He's growing up. Let him.

Why don't you take up tennis, or maybe needlework?

[Anonymous]

Yes, I do hear what you are saying but entertain my questions for just a minute. I am on the board for a charitable organization so, trust me, I have other activities in my life also. But this is a different matter. The core issue is:

Why is it so terrible for teachers to just LISTEN to parents suggestions? What does it cost them to do so if it's one suggestion every three months? Why oppose it so much? Is it not possible that one of the parents might actually offer an idea that can make the teacher's life easier?

For example, DC as I said is a dawdler. He takes forever in the bathroom. Teacher refused to ask us for help. DH finally suggested that a timer be used, a fun sort of timer that any kid would enjoy using. Now, DC is in and out and loves using that timer. Well, teacher put up with TWO months of bathroom dawdling. This suggestion had to be told to the Head of School and then she took it. We were too afraid to suggest it to her directly for fear of backlash. But now the problem is resolved. Easy as that. If she had only asked us for advice or been more agreeable to hearing our suggestions.

[Anonymous]

OP, your son needs a different school and you need to learn how to disengage. I DO NOT think your son is in the right environment, AND I also think that you are micro-managing.

Seek a school more sensitive to his needs without hanging a damn board around his neck. That is the WORST yet.

And what the hell is in his backpack that he needs to drag around that much in K???? Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, despite all of the hints/ outright statements, you apparently Just Aren't Getting This. (Have you ever heard the term "helicopter parent?" It's not a compliment.)

One parent's definition of helicopter parenting is another parent's definition of being an involved parent. Really a private matter between the family members how parents are with their kids. Parents of Asian cultures are often that way and it's partly because of their culture. And it's okay to be that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your son needs a different school and you need to learn how to disengage. I DO NOT think your son is in the right environment, AND I also think that you are micro-managing.

Seek a school more sensitive to his needs without hanging a damn board around his neck. That is the WORST yet.

And what the hell is in his backpack that he needs to drag around that much in K???? Seriously?

OP here: Yes I am micromanaging. But I feel I need to be BECAUSE of the damn board around his neck and the heavy backpack thing, the question about his religion, etc..etc...What kind of mother would I really be to be playing tennis while this goes on at his school and not saying a word?