How can anyone believe in god when there's so much evil in the world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because heaven is not on earth. Eternal life and joy beyond our comprehension is the promise God made and he sent his son Jesus to get us there. God does not create sin in this world. That is the devil.

Cop out. God created the devil. Why?

He created the angel, who then turned on God. Again, free will.

So God either can't or won't protect children. Why?

It's complex because humans cannot comprehend the mind of God. Basically in one supernatural event God created all that is known and unknown in the universe, including the human race. He gave them completely free will, including the way the history plays out as an aggregate of human actions. God seldom interferes, except for things that are prophesied to happen. He is letting the history, including individual destinies play as as an aggregate of all previous actions, especially actions of one's ancestors. But with every singles, minute decision that a person make every day God is looking for obedience of His Will. He is hoping that in every moment we will make decisions based on His Law/Grace. Big events in life/history are a cumulative result of small decisions, if they were in obedience/disobedience to Him. God will not interfere with human life. He will do it on the Judgment Day. He sent his Son so we can communicate to the Father through the Son.

All I get out of that is that somehow the kids were disobedient in their short lives. Or their ancestors were, so they just happen to be the ones to suffer for it.

I have a family member who is grateful that her son's illness brought them all closer to God. So.... mission accomplished, I guess. No matter that a young boy has now gone through cancer twice... they are all closer to God.

I maintain that if God were human, he would be seen as a controlling, abusive jerk.

God owes no human being no explanation or human justice whatsoever. We are supposed to fear and obey Abrahamic God. He is not like pagan deity or a genie that you bargain with: do this, get that. It doesn't work that way. Abrahamic God is pure love, light, and justice. People don't like the justice/consequence part because it doesn't suit them. All-loving, merciful God who died for us on the cross will return as the Judge. What we do in the meantime really matters, especially intentions of our heart. God did not create suffering, illness, and hate in the wold, Satan and human sin created it, and individual and group destinies are a result of those accumulated curses and sins. Yes, on individual basis it is not fair. But we have to understand the totality of God, which can only be understood by reading the Bible and praying. We can be praying all our lives and an answer could be no. Because bargaining does not work with Abrahamic God, just a total, unhinged, non-bargaining generational obedience works.

So live in fear, praying all the time and hoping to be seen as good enough.

Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.

Your post is one of the many reasons I turned away from religion.

Good. religion is not there to serve you. The point fo religion si to serve God. Everything else is easy-beleivism. There is plenty of that to go around and you can have a pick of what suits you the best. It may make you feel good now but it won't deliver eternal life. In the end, we prepare our own bed for eternity (we have free will) and not choosing to obey God is certainly one way.

Every time you post, you show me more of the reasons I walked away. I'm not concerned with eternal life. I Don't concern myself with pits of fire, either.

So, why are you here?

It's a discussion.

By the way PP, I mean you no disrespect. You have your beliefs... I disagree with them.

And to another poster, I don't blame god for anything anymore. That would mean I think the entity exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because heaven is not on earth. Eternal life and joy beyond our comprehension is the promise God made and he sent his son Jesus to get us there. God does not create sin in this world. That is the devil.

Cop out. God created the devil. Why?

He created the angel, who then turned on God. Again, free will.

So God either can't or won't protect children. Why?

It's complex because humans cannot comprehend the mind of God. Basically in one supernatural event God created all that is known and unknown in the universe, including the human race. He gave them completely free will, including the way the history plays out as an aggregate of human actions. God seldom interferes, except for things that are prophesied to happen. He is letting the history, including individual destinies play as as an aggregate of all previous actions, especially actions of one's ancestors. But with every singles, minute decision that a person make every day God is looking for obedience of His Will. He is hoping that in every moment we will make decisions based on His Law/Grace. Big events in life/history are a cumulative result of small decisions, if they were in obedience/disobedience to Him. God will not interfere with human life. He will do it on the Judgment Day. He sent his Son so we can communicate to the Father through the Son.

All I get out of that is that somehow the kids were disobedient in their short lives. Or their ancestors were, so they just happen to be the ones to suffer for it.

I have a family member who is grateful that her son's illness brought them all closer to God. So.... mission accomplished, I guess. No matter that a young boy has now gone through cancer twice... they are all closer to God.

I maintain that if God were human, he would be seen as a controlling, abusive jerk.

God owes no human being no explanation or human justice whatsoever. We are supposed to fear and obey Abrahamic God. He is not like pagan deity or a genie that you bargain with: do this, get that. It doesn't work that way. Abrahamic God is pure love, light, and justice. People don't like the justice/consequence part because it doesn't suit them. All-loving, merciful God who died for us on the cross will return as the Judge. What we do in the meantime really matters, especially intentions of our heart. God did not create suffering, illness, and hate in the wold, Satan and human sin created it, and individual and group destinies are a result of those accumulated curses and sins. Yes, on individual basis it is not fair. But we have to understand the totality of God, which can only be understood by reading the Bible and praying. We can be praying all our lives and an answer could be no. Because bargaining does not work with Abrahamic God, just a total, unhinged, non-bargaining generational obedience works.

So live in fear, praying all the time and hoping to be seen as good enough.

Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.

Your post is one of the many reasons I turned away from religion.

Good. religion is not there to serve you. The point fo religion si to serve God. Everything else is easy-beleivism. There is plenty of that to go around and you can have a pick of what suits you the best. It may make you feel good now but it won't deliver eternal life. In the end, we prepare our own bed for eternity (we have free will) and not choosing to obey God is certainly one way.

Every time you post, you show me more of the reasons I walked away. I'm not concerned with eternal life. I Don't concern myself with pits of fire, either.

So, why are you here?

It's a discussion.

By the way PP, I mean you no disrespect. You have your beliefs... I disagree with them.

And to another poster, I don't blame god for anything anymore. That would mean I think the entity exists.

I mean no disrespect too but what's there to discuss? Over the past 5 months we have seen increase in atheists on this board stating that they are atheists and saying that they don't believe in anything and disagree with believers. I am genuinely, genuinely interested in what's the point of any discussion. The PP above explained the tenants of Christian faiths and the atheists (maybe you) kept on responding how he disagrees and that turns him off from religion. If that's true I genuinely don't see a point of discussing anything. So my question to all atheists is: if you are secure in your disbelief what is there to discuss, talk about, or exchange with believers? Is it just to state over and over that you disagree and don't believe? Seems futile. I understand if you want to discuss atheism with other atheists, that's normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because heaven is not on earth. Eternal life and joy beyond our comprehension is the promise God made and he sent his son Jesus to get us there. God does not create sin in this world. That is the devil.

Cop out. God created the devil. Why?

He created the angel, who then turned on God. Again, free will.

So God either can't or won't protect children. Why?

It's complex because humans cannot comprehend the mind of God. Basically in one supernatural event God created all that is known and unknown in the universe, including the human race. He gave them completely free will, including the way the history plays out as an aggregate of human actions. God seldom interferes, except for things that are prophesied to happen. He is letting the history, including individual destinies play as as an aggregate of all previous actions, especially actions of one's ancestors. But with every singles, minute decision that a person make every day God is looking for obedience of His Will. He is hoping that in every moment we will make decisions based on His Law/Grace. Big events in life/history are a cumulative result of small decisions, if they were in obedience/disobedience to Him. God will not interfere with human life. He will do it on the Judgment Day. He sent his Son so we can communicate to the Father through the Son.

All I get out of that is that somehow the kids were disobedient in their short lives. Or their ancestors were, so they just happen to be the ones to suffer for it.

I have a family member who is grateful that her son's illness brought them all closer to God. So.... mission accomplished, I guess. No matter that a young boy has now gone through cancer twice... they are all closer to God.

I maintain that if God were human, he would be seen as a controlling, abusive jerk.

God owes no human being no explanation or human justice whatsoever. We are supposed to fear and obey Abrahamic God. He is not like pagan deity or a genie that you bargain with: do this, get that. It doesn't work that way. Abrahamic God is pure love, light, and justice. People don't like the justice/consequence part because it doesn't suit them. All-loving, merciful God who died for us on the cross will return as the Judge. What we do in the meantime really matters, especially intentions of our heart. God did not create suffering, illness, and hate in the wold, Satan and human sin created it, and individual and group destinies are a result of those accumulated curses and sins. Yes, on individual basis it is not fair. But we have to understand the totality of God, which can only be understood by reading the Bible and praying. We can be praying all our lives and an answer could be no. Because bargaining does not work with Abrahamic God, just a total, unhinged, non-bargaining generational obedience works.

So live in fear, praying all the time and hoping to be seen as good enough.

Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.

Your post is one of the many reasons I turned away from religion.

Good. religion is not there to serve you. The point fo religion si to serve God. Everything else is easy-beleivism. There is plenty of that to go around and you can have a pick of what suits you the best. It may make you feel good now but it won't deliver eternal life. In the end, we prepare our own bed for eternity (we have free will) and not choosing to obey God is certainly one way.

Every time you post, you show me more of the reasons I walked away. I'm not concerned with eternal life. I Don't concern myself with pits of fire, either.

So, why are you here?

It's a discussion.

By the way PP, I mean you no disrespect. You have your beliefs... I disagree with them.

And to another poster, I don't blame god for anything anymore. That would mean I think the entity exists.

I mean no disrespect too but what's there to discuss? Over the past 5 months we have seen increase in atheists on this board stating that they are atheists and saying that they don't believe in anything and disagree with believers. I am genuinely, genuinely interested in what's the point of any discussion. The PP above explained the tenants of Christian faiths and the atheists (maybe you) kept on responding how he disagrees and that turns him off from religion. If that's true I genuinely don't see a point of discussing anything. So my question to all atheists is: if you are secure in your disbelief what is there to discuss, talk about, or exchange with believers? Is it just to state over and over that you disagree and don't believe? Seems futile. I understand if you want to discuss atheism with other atheists, that's normal.

This again, PP.

You don’t have to understand or see the point why atheists or agnostics enjoy these discussions. You and your likeminded posters obsessed with posting about this is getting really old.

[Anonymous]

In the book of Acts, there is a demonically possessed woman who follows Paul and his companions around and is obsessed with their preaching. It's because the demons are tormented by Christ and the Gospel and are drawn to it in a sort of masochistic way and keep coming around for a look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because heaven is not on earth. Eternal life and joy beyond our comprehension is the promise God made and he sent his son Jesus to get us there. God does not create sin in this world. That is the devil.

Cop out. God created the devil. Why?

He created the angel, who then turned on God. Again, free will.

So God either can't or won't protect children. Why?

It's complex because humans cannot comprehend the mind of God. Basically in one supernatural event God created all that is known and unknown in the universe, including the human race. He gave them completely free will, including the way the history plays out as an aggregate of human actions. God seldom interferes, except for things that are prophesied to happen. He is letting the history, including individual destinies play as as an aggregate of all previous actions, especially actions of one's ancestors. But with every singles, minute decision that a person make every day God is looking for obedience of His Will. He is hoping that in every moment we will make decisions based on His Law/Grace. Big events in life/history are a cumulative result of small decisions, if they were in obedience/disobedience to Him. God will not interfere with human life. He will do it on the Judgment Day. He sent his Son so we can communicate to the Father through the Son.

All I get out of that is that somehow the kids were disobedient in their short lives. Or their ancestors were, so they just happen to be the ones to suffer for it.

I have a family member who is grateful that her son's illness brought them all closer to God. So.... mission accomplished, I guess. No matter that a young boy has now gone through cancer twice... they are all closer to God.

I maintain that if God were human, he would be seen as a controlling, abusive jerk.

God owes no human being no explanation or human justice whatsoever. We are supposed to fear and obey Abrahamic God. He is not like pagan deity or a genie that you bargain with: do this, get that. It doesn't work that way. Abrahamic God is pure love, light, and justice. People don't like the justice/consequence part because it doesn't suit them. All-loving, merciful God who died for us on the cross will return as the Judge. What we do in the meantime really matters, especially intentions of our heart. God did not create suffering, illness, and hate in the wold, Satan and human sin created it, and individual and group destinies are a result of those accumulated curses and sins. Yes, on individual basis it is not fair. But we have to understand the totality of God, which can only be understood by reading the Bible and praying. We can be praying all our lives and an answer could be no. Because bargaining does not work with Abrahamic God, just a total, unhinged, non-bargaining generational obedience works.

So live in fear, praying all the time and hoping to be seen as good enough.

Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.

Your post is one of the many reasons I turned away from religion.

Good. religion is not there to serve you. The point fo religion si to serve God. Everything else is easy-beleivism. There is plenty of that to go around and you can have a pick of what suits you the best. It may make you feel good now but it won't deliver eternal life. In the end, we prepare our own bed for eternity (we have free will) and not choosing to obey God is certainly one way.

Every time you post, you show me more of the reasons I walked away. I'm not concerned with eternal life. I Don't concern myself with pits of fire, either.

So, why are you here?

It's a discussion.

By the way PP, I mean you no disrespect. You have your beliefs... I disagree with them.

And to another poster, I don't blame god for anything anymore. That would mean I think the entity exists.

I mean no disrespect too but what's there to discuss? Over the past 5 months we have seen increase in atheists on this board stating that they are atheists and saying that they don't believe in anything and disagree with believers. I am genuinely, genuinely interested in what's the point of any discussion. The PP above explained the tenants of Christian faiths and the atheists (maybe you) kept on responding how he disagrees and that turns him off from religion. If that's true I genuinely don't see a point of discussing anything. So my question to all atheists is: if you are secure in your disbelief what is there to discuss, talk about, or exchange with believers? Is it just to state over and over that you disagree and don't believe? Seems futile. I understand if you want to discuss atheism with other atheists, that's normal.

This again, PP.

You don’t have to understand or see the point why atheists or agnostics enjoy these discussions. You and your likeminded posters obsessed with posting about this is getting really old.

The only logical explanation of such enjoyment is in your misguided belief that believers are trying to convince you to believe (trust me, none of us care). And your enjoyment is in answering shortly how you disagree. Unless of course there are other sada-masochistic reasons why you would have such "conversations". What ever believers say you will say that you disagree and don't believe, so you are not providing anything, just enjoying telling this to anonymous people on the forum (as if we care). The only logical reason for you to be expressing your disbelieving is to expound on the theory of atheism with other atheists. You would bring something to the atheist table of discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because heaven is not on earth. Eternal life and joy beyond our comprehension is the promise God made and he sent his son Jesus to get us there. God does not create sin in this world. That is the devil.

Cop out. God created the devil. Why?

He created the angel, who then turned on God. Again, free will.

So God either can't or won't protect children. Why?

It's complex because humans cannot comprehend the mind of God. Basically in one supernatural event God created all that is known and unknown in the universe, including the human race. He gave them completely free will, including the way the history plays out as an aggregate of human actions. God seldom interferes, except for things that are prophesied to happen. He is letting the history, including individual destinies play as as an aggregate of all previous actions, especially actions of one's ancestors. But with every singles, minute decision that a person make every day God is looking for obedience of His Will. He is hoping that in every moment we will make decisions based on His Law/Grace. Big events in life/history are a cumulative result of small decisions, if they were in obedience/disobedience to Him. God will not interfere with human life. He will do it on the Judgment Day. He sent his Son so we can communicate to the Father through the Son.

All I get out of that is that somehow the kids were disobedient in their short lives. Or their ancestors were, so they just happen to be the ones to suffer for it.

I have a family member who is grateful that her son's illness brought them all closer to God. So.... mission accomplished, I guess. No matter that a young boy has now gone through cancer twice... they are all closer to God.

I maintain that if God were human, he would be seen as a controlling, abusive jerk.

God owes no human being no explanation or human justice whatsoever. We are supposed to fear and obey Abrahamic God. He is not like pagan deity or a genie that you bargain with: do this, get that. It doesn't work that way. Abrahamic God is pure love, light, and justice. People don't like the justice/consequence part because it doesn't suit them. All-loving, merciful God who died for us on the cross will return as the Judge. What we do in the meantime really matters, especially intentions of our heart. God did not create suffering, illness, and hate in the wold, Satan and human sin created it, and individual and group destinies are a result of those accumulated curses and sins. Yes, on individual basis it is not fair. But we have to understand the totality of God, which can only be understood by reading the Bible and praying. We can be praying all our lives and an answer could be no. Because bargaining does not work with Abrahamic God, just a total, unhinged, non-bargaining generational obedience works.

So live in fear, praying all the time and hoping to be seen as good enough.

Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.

Your post is one of the many reasons I turned away from religion.

Good. religion is not there to serve you. The point fo religion si to serve God. Everything else is easy-beleivism. There is plenty of that to go around and you can have a pick of what suits you the best. It may make you feel good now but it won't deliver eternal life. In the end, we prepare our own bed for eternity (we have free will) and not choosing to obey God is certainly one way.

Every time you post, you show me more of the reasons I walked away. I'm not concerned with eternal life. I Don't concern myself with pits of fire, either.

So, why are you here?

It's a discussion.

By the way PP, I mean you no disrespect. You have your beliefs... I disagree with them.

And to another poster, I don't blame god for anything anymore. That would mean I think the entity exists.

I mean no disrespect too but what's there to discuss? Over the past 5 months we have seen increase in atheists on this board stating that they are atheists and saying that they don't believe in anything and disagree with believers. I am genuinely, genuinely interested in what's the point of any discussion. The PP above explained the tenants of Christian faiths and the atheists (maybe you) kept on responding how he disagrees and that turns him off from religion. If that's true I genuinely don't see a point of discussing anything. So my question to all atheists is: if you are secure in your disbelief what is there to discuss, talk about, or exchange with believers? Is it just to state over and over that you disagree and don't believe? Seems futile. I understand if you want to discuss atheism with other atheists, that's normal.

This again, PP.

You don’t have to understand or see the point why atheists or agnostics enjoy these discussions. You and your likeminded posters obsessed with posting about this is getting really old.

The only logical explanation of such enjoyment is in your misguided belief that believers are trying to convince you to believe (trust me, none of us care). And your enjoyment is in answering shortly how you disagree. Unless of course there are other sada-masochistic reasons why you would have such "conversations". What ever believers say you will say that you disagree and don't believe, so you are not providing anything, just enjoying telling this to anonymous people on the forum (as if we care). The only logical reason for you to be expressing your disbelieving is to expound on the theory of atheism with other atheists. You would bring something to the atheist table of discussion.

You seem to care a great deal!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because heaven is not on earth. Eternal life and joy beyond our comprehension is the promise God made and he sent his son Jesus to get us there. God does not create sin in this world. That is the devil.

Cop out. God created the devil. Why?

He created the angel, who then turned on God. Again, free will.

So God either can't or won't protect children. Why?

It's complex because humans cannot comprehend the mind of God. Basically in one supernatural event God created all that is known and unknown in the universe, including the human race. He gave them completely free will, including the way the history plays out as an aggregate of human actions. God seldom interferes, except for things that are prophesied to happen. He is letting the history, including individual destinies play as as an aggregate of all previous actions, especially actions of one's ancestors. But with every singles, minute decision that a person make every day God is looking for obedience of His Will. He is hoping that in every moment we will make decisions based on His Law/Grace. Big events in life/history are a cumulative result of small decisions, if they were in obedience/disobedience to Him. God will not interfere with human life. He will do it on the Judgment Day. He sent his Son so we can communicate to the Father through the Son.

All I get out of that is that somehow the kids were disobedient in their short lives. Or their ancestors were, so they just happen to be the ones to suffer for it.

I have a family member who is grateful that her son's illness brought them all closer to God. So.... mission accomplished, I guess. No matter that a young boy has now gone through cancer twice... they are all closer to God.

I maintain that if God were human, he would be seen as a controlling, abusive jerk.

God owes no human being no explanation or human justice whatsoever. We are supposed to fear and obey Abrahamic God. He is not like pagan deity or a genie that you bargain with: do this, get that. It doesn't work that way. Abrahamic God is pure love, light, and justice. People don't like the justice/consequence part because it doesn't suit them. All-loving, merciful God who died for us on the cross will return as the Judge. What we do in the meantime really matters, especially intentions of our heart. God did not create suffering, illness, and hate in the wold, Satan and human sin created it, and individual and group destinies are a result of those accumulated curses and sins. Yes, on individual basis it is not fair. But we have to understand the totality of God, which can only be understood by reading the Bible and praying. We can be praying all our lives and an answer could be no. Because bargaining does not work with Abrahamic God, just a total, unhinged, non-bargaining generational obedience works.

So live in fear, praying all the time and hoping to be seen as good enough.

Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.

Your post is one of the many reasons I turned away from religion.

Good. religion is not there to serve you. The point fo religion si to serve God. Everything else is easy-beleivism. There is plenty of that to go around and you can have a pick of what suits you the best. It may make you feel good now but it won't deliver eternal life. In the end, we prepare our own bed for eternity (we have free will) and not choosing to obey God is certainly one way.

Every time you post, you show me more of the reasons I walked away. I'm not concerned with eternal life. I Don't concern myself with pits of fire, either.

So, why are you here?

It's a discussion.

By the way PP, I mean you no disrespect. You have your beliefs... I disagree with them.

And to another poster, I don't blame god for anything anymore. That would mean I think the entity exists.

I mean no disrespect too but what's there to discuss? Over the past 5 months we have seen increase in atheists on this board stating that they are atheists and saying that they don't believe in anything and disagree with believers. I am genuinely, genuinely interested in what's the point of any discussion. The PP above explained the tenants of Christian faiths and the atheists (maybe you) kept on responding how he disagrees and that turns him off from religion. If that's true I genuinely don't see a point of discussing anything. So my question to all atheists is: if you are secure in your disbelief what is there to discuss, talk about, or exchange with believers? Is it just to state over and over that you disagree and don't believe? Seems futile. I understand if you want to discuss atheism with other atheists, that's normal.

You know what? I really don't know!

I do.... struggle.... with it sometimes. I wonder why/how anyone can maintain their faith. I tried different churches, some just pushed me further away. I grew up thinking you are supposed to believe in God. My brother and I had to go to church and Sunday school even though our Mom rarely did and our Dad never did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because heaven is not on earth. Eternal life and joy beyond our comprehension is the promise God made and he sent his son Jesus to get us there. God does not create sin in this world. That is the devil.

Cop out. God created the devil. Why?

He created the angel, who then turned on God. Again, free will.

So God either can't or won't protect children. Why?

It's complex because humans cannot comprehend the mind of God. Basically in one supernatural event God created all that is known and unknown in the universe, including the human race. He gave them completely free will, including the way the history plays out as an aggregate of human actions. God seldom interferes, except for things that are prophesied to happen. He is letting the history, including individual destinies play as as an aggregate of all previous actions, especially actions of one's ancestors. But with every singles, minute decision that a person make every day God is looking for obedience of His Will. He is hoping that in every moment we will make decisions based on His Law/Grace. Big events in life/history are a cumulative result of small decisions, if they were in obedience/disobedience to Him. God will not interfere with human life. He will do it on the Judgment Day. He sent his Son so we can communicate to the Father through the Son.

All I get out of that is that somehow the kids were disobedient in their short lives. Or their ancestors were, so they just happen to be the ones to suffer for it.

I have a family member who is grateful that her son's illness brought them all closer to God. So.... mission accomplished, I guess. No matter that a young boy has now gone through cancer twice... they are all closer to God.

I maintain that if God were human, he would be seen as a controlling, abusive jerk.

God owes no human being no explanation or human justice whatsoever. We are supposed to fear and obey Abrahamic God. He is not like pagan deity or a genie that you bargain with: do this, get that. It doesn't work that way. Abrahamic God is pure love, light, and justice. People don't like the justice/consequence part because it doesn't suit them. All-loving, merciful God who died for us on the cross will return as the Judge. What we do in the meantime really matters, especially intentions of our heart. God did not create suffering, illness, and hate in the wold, Satan and human sin created it, and individual and group destinies are a result of those accumulated curses and sins. Yes, on individual basis it is not fair. But we have to understand the totality of God, which can only be understood by reading the Bible and praying. We can be praying all our lives and an answer could be no. Because bargaining does not work with Abrahamic God, just a total, unhinged, non-bargaining generational obedience works.

So live in fear, praying all the time and hoping to be seen as good enough.

Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.

Your post is one of the many reasons I turned away from religion.

Good. religion is not there to serve you. The point fo religion si to serve God. Everything else is easy-beleivism. There is plenty of that to go around and you can have a pick of what suits you the best. It may make you feel good now but it won't deliver eternal life. In the end, we prepare our own bed for eternity (we have free will) and not choosing to obey God is certainly one way.

Every time you post, you show me more of the reasons I walked away. I'm not concerned with eternal life. I Don't concern myself with pits of fire, either.

So, why are you here?

It's a discussion.

By the way PP, I mean you no disrespect. You have your beliefs... I disagree with them.

And to another poster, I don't blame god for anything anymore. That would mean I think the entity exists.

I mean no disrespect too but what's there to discuss? Over the past 5 months we have seen increase in atheists on this board stating that they are atheists and saying that they don't believe in anything and disagree with believers. I am genuinely, genuinely interested in what's the point of any discussion. The PP above explained the tenants of Christian faiths and the atheists (maybe you) kept on responding how he disagrees and that turns him off from religion. If that's true I genuinely don't see a point of discussing anything. So my question to all atheists is: if you are secure in your disbelief what is there to discuss, talk about, or exchange with believers? Is it just to state over and over that you disagree and don't believe? Seems futile. I understand if you want to discuss atheism with other atheists, that's normal.

You know what? I really don't know!

I do.... struggle.... with it sometimes. I wonder why/how anyone can maintain their faith. I tried different churches, some just pushed me further away. I grew up thinking you are supposed to believe in God. My brother and I had to go to church and Sunday school even though our Mom rarely did and our Dad never did.

The problem with people who want to reference Jude-Christian faith in their (un)belief system is that they have not read the Bible, thoroughly. The Bible actually explains so many things that so many atheist here are struggling with. When I see posts by atheists I immediately know form what they are asking that they simply haven't read any holy texts. It's like trying to discuss gardening or neurosurgery without having any experience in it whatsoever. Many will say: I am spiritual. Fine, but that has nothing to do with faith. Faith is to be practiced based on tenants and holy texts of that faith (be it Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc.). Many atheists seem to be "angry" at things for which holy texts give full explanation. The lack of knowledge makes any kind of conversation very difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because heaven is not on earth. Eternal life and joy beyond our comprehension is the promise God made and he sent his son Jesus to get us there. God does not create sin in this world. That is the devil.

Cop out. God created the devil. Why?

He created the angel, who then turned on God. Again, free will.

So God either can't or won't protect children. Why?

It's complex because humans cannot comprehend the mind of God. Basically in one supernatural event God created all that is known and unknown in the universe, including the human race. He gave them completely free will, including the way the history plays out as an aggregate of human actions. God seldom interferes, except for things that are prophesied to happen. He is letting the history, including individual destinies play as as an aggregate of all previous actions, especially actions of one's ancestors. But with every singles, minute decision that a person make every day God is looking for obedience of His Will. He is hoping that in every moment we will make decisions based on His Law/Grace. Big events in life/history are a cumulative result of small decisions, if they were in obedience/disobedience to Him. God will not interfere with human life. He will do it on the Judgment Day. He sent his Son so we can communicate to the Father through the Son.

All I get out of that is that somehow the kids were disobedient in their short lives. Or their ancestors were, so they just happen to be the ones to suffer for it.

I have a family member who is grateful that her son's illness brought them all closer to God. So.... mission accomplished, I guess. No matter that a young boy has now gone through cancer twice... they are all closer to God.

I maintain that if God were human, he would be seen as a controlling, abusive jerk.

God owes no human being no explanation or human justice whatsoever. We are supposed to fear and obey Abrahamic God. He is not like pagan deity or a genie that you bargain with: do this, get that. It doesn't work that way. Abrahamic God is pure love, light, and justice. People don't like the justice/consequence part because it doesn't suit them. All-loving, merciful God who died for us on the cross will return as the Judge. What we do in the meantime really matters, especially intentions of our heart. God did not create suffering, illness, and hate in the wold, Satan and human sin created it, and individual and group destinies are a result of those accumulated curses and sins. Yes, on individual basis it is not fair. But we have to understand the totality of God, which can only be understood by reading the Bible and praying. We can be praying all our lives and an answer could be no. Because bargaining does not work with Abrahamic God, just a total, unhinged, non-bargaining generational obedience works.

So live in fear, praying all the time and hoping to be seen as good enough.

Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.

Your post is one of the many reasons I turned away from religion.

Good. religion is not there to serve you. The point fo religion si to serve God. Everything else is easy-beleivism. There is plenty of that to go around and you can have a pick of what suits you the best. It may make you feel good now but it won't deliver eternal life. In the end, we prepare our own bed for eternity (we have free will) and not choosing to obey God is certainly one way.

Every time you post, you show me more of the reasons I walked away. I'm not concerned with eternal life. I Don't concern myself with pits of fire, either.

So, why are you here?

It's a discussion.

By the way PP, I mean you no disrespect. You have your beliefs... I disagree with them.

And to another poster, I don't blame god for anything anymore. That would mean I think the entity exists.

I mean no disrespect too but what's there to discuss? Over the past 5 months we have seen increase in atheists on this board stating that they are atheists and saying that they don't believe in anything and disagree with believers. I am genuinely, genuinely interested in what's the point of any discussion. The PP above explained the tenants of Christian faiths and the atheists (maybe you) kept on responding how he disagrees and that turns him off from religion. If that's true I genuinely don't see a point of discussing anything. So my question to all atheists is: if you are secure in your disbelief what is there to discuss, talk about, or exchange with believers? Is it just to state over and over that you disagree and don't believe? Seems futile. I understand if you want to discuss atheism with other atheists, that's normal.

You know what? I really don't know!

I do.... struggle.... with it sometimes. I wonder why/how anyone can maintain their faith. I tried different churches, some just pushed me further away. I grew up thinking you are supposed to believe in God. My brother and I had to go to church and Sunday school even though our Mom rarely did and our Dad never did.

The problem with people who want to reference Jude-Christian faith in their (un)belief system is that they have not read the Bible, thoroughly. The Bible actually explains so many things that so many atheist here are struggling with. When I see posts by atheists I immediately know form what they are asking that they simply haven't read any holy texts. It's like trying to discuss gardening or neurosurgery without having any experience in it whatsoever. Many will say: I am spiritual. Fine, but that has nothing to do with faith. Faith is to be practiced based on tenants and holy texts of that faith (be it Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc.). Many atheists seem to be "angry" at things for which holy texts give full explanation. The lack of knowledge makes any kind of conversation very difficult.

Many atheists know more about religion than believers because they studied several religions before leaving. Also, there is not a “theory “ of atheism , it’s simply not believing in god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because heaven is not on earth. Eternal life and joy beyond our comprehension is the promise God made and he sent his son Jesus to get us there. God does not create sin in this world. That is the devil.

Cop out. God created the devil. Why?

He created the angel, who then turned on God. Again, free will.

So God either can't or won't protect children. Why?

It's complex because humans cannot comprehend the mind of God. Basically in one supernatural event God created all that is known and unknown in the universe, including the human race. He gave them completely free will, including the way the history plays out as an aggregate of human actions. God seldom interferes, except for things that are prophesied to happen. He is letting the history, including individual destinies play as as an aggregate of all previous actions, especially actions of one's ancestors. But with every singles, minute decision that a person make every day God is looking for obedience of His Will. He is hoping that in every moment we will make decisions based on His Law/Grace. Big events in life/history are a cumulative result of small decisions, if they were in obedience/disobedience to Him. God will not interfere with human life. He will do it on the Judgment Day. He sent his Son so we can communicate to the Father through the Son.

All I get out of that is that somehow the kids were disobedient in their short lives. Or their ancestors were, so they just happen to be the ones to suffer for it.

I have a family member who is grateful that her son's illness brought them all closer to God. So.... mission accomplished, I guess. No matter that a young boy has now gone through cancer twice... they are all closer to God.

I maintain that if God were human, he would be seen as a controlling, abusive jerk.

God owes no human being no explanation or human justice whatsoever. We are supposed to fear and obey Abrahamic God. He is not like pagan deity or a genie that you bargain with: do this, get that. It doesn't work that way. Abrahamic God is pure love, light, and justice. People don't like the justice/consequence part because it doesn't suit them. All-loving, merciful God who died for us on the cross will return as the Judge. What we do in the meantime really matters, especially intentions of our heart. God did not create suffering, illness, and hate in the wold, Satan and human sin created it, and individual and group destinies are a result of those accumulated curses and sins. Yes, on individual basis it is not fair. But we have to understand the totality of God, which can only be understood by reading the Bible and praying. We can be praying all our lives and an answer could be no. Because bargaining does not work with Abrahamic God, just a total, unhinged, non-bargaining generational obedience works.

So live in fear, praying all the time and hoping to be seen as good enough.

Sounds like an abusive relationship to me.

Your post is one of the many reasons I turned away from religion.

Good. religion is not there to serve you. The point fo religion si to serve God. Everything else is easy-beleivism. There is plenty of that to go around and you can have a pick of what suits you the best. It may make you feel good now but it won't deliver eternal life. In the end, we prepare our own bed for eternity (we have free will) and not choosing to obey God is certainly one way.

Every time you post, you show me more of the reasons I walked away. I'm not concerned with eternal life. I Don't concern myself with pits of fire, either.

So, why are you here?

It's a discussion.

By the way PP, I mean you no disrespect. You have your beliefs... I disagree with them.

And to another poster, I don't blame god for anything anymore. That would mean I think the entity exists.

I mean no disrespect too but what's there to discuss? Over the past 5 months we have seen increase in atheists on this board stating that they are atheists and saying that they don't believe in anything and disagree with believers. I am genuinely, genuinely interested in what's the point of any discussion. The PP above explained the tenants of Christian faiths and the atheists (maybe you) kept on responding how he disagrees and that turns him off from religion. If that's true I genuinely don't see a point of discussing anything. So my question to all atheists is: if you are secure in your disbelief what is there to discuss, talk about, or exchange with believers? Is it just to state over and over that you disagree and don't believe? Seems futile. I understand if you want to discuss atheism with other atheists, that's normal.

You know what? I really don't know!

I do.... struggle.... with it sometimes. I wonder why/how anyone can maintain their faith. I tried different churches, some just pushed me further away. I grew up thinking you are supposed to believe in God. My brother and I had to go to church and Sunday school even though our Mom rarely did and our Dad never did.

The problem with people who want to reference Jude-Christian faith in their (un)belief system is that they have not read the Bible, thoroughly. The Bible actually explains so many things that so many atheist here are struggling with. When I see posts by atheists I immediately know form what they are asking that they simply haven't read any holy texts. It's like trying to discuss gardening or neurosurgery without having any experience in it whatsoever. Many will say: I am spiritual. Fine, but that has nothing to do with faith. Faith is to be practiced based on tenants and holy texts of that faith (be it Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc.). Many atheists seem to be "angry" at things for which holy texts give full explanation. The lack of knowledge makes any kind of conversation very difficult.

Many atheists know more about religion than believers because they studied several religions before leaving. Also, there is not a “theory “ of atheism , it’s simply not believing in god.

That may be, but the PP's point is valid. Many atheists I've ever talked to or who posted on here have almost no knowledge of what's in the Bible. It does seem that they're aware of many talking points you can find on web sites and such, but actual Biblical knowledge is often almost non-existent. Case in point is the OP's question. The Bible is saturated with answers to the OP's question. I get it if you don't believe, but if you had some Biblical knowledge, you'd certainly be able to grasp how anyone could believe in God with evil in the world.

[Anonymous]

I think it would be so super cool if you people quit quoting twenty inches of previous commentary just to add your one or two lines to it. Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it would be so super cool if you people quit quoting twenty inches of previous commentary just to add your one or two lines to it. Seriously.

I hate it but am guilty at times. The interface on DCUM isn’t super mobile friendly and I am lazy when on my phone.

[Anonymous]

...

Anonymous wrote:

That may be, but the PP's point is valid. Many atheists I've ever talked to or who posted on here have almost no knowledge of what's in the Bible. It does seem that they're aware of many talking points you can find on web sites and such, but actual Biblical knowledge is often almost non-existent. Case in point is the OP's question. The Bible is saturated with answers to the OP's question. I get it if you don't believe, but if you had some Biblical knowledge, you'd certainly be able to grasp how anyone could believe in God with evil in the world.

I doubt you are aware of how smug and arrogant you are coming off here. Everyone reads and finds what they want in any sacred text....hence all the different sects and denominations. Just because you have read and found the answers you are seeking doesn't mean that others find the same solace.

Also, there are plenty that are not satisfied with studying one ancient document for the answers to why babies are being slaughtered while their mothers are being raped. The "sin" and "free will" explanations are easy academic cop-outs coming from the privilege of comfort. Add in the belief of Christians that the torturing will continue eternally if they aren't "saved" and there's little motivation to go after the answers.

[Anonymous]

^^^ God actually tells us NOT to slaughter babies and rape women. So blame the slaughterers and rapists, not God.

[Anonymous]

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)