5th year biglaw associate, golden handcuffed and miserable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just want to note how hilariously high the views are for this thread (versus not all that many people actually responding to OP). There are obviously a lot of miserable biglaw associates lurking.

Checking in.

[Anonymous]

SEC? I'm not sure if it's completely frozen shut right now or if there is hiring here and there. I know people who were pushed out of their NYC biglaw firms as 8-10th yrs who are now there making 1st yr associate money (sans bonus obviously). I realize it's still a big cut and with 5 yrs experience, you're not going to come in at that level but it's still way way better than some small firm paying 80k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SEC? I'm not sure if it's completely frozen shut right now or if there is hiring here and there. I know people who were pushed out of their NYC biglaw firms as 8-10th yrs who are now there making 1st yr associate money (sans bonus obviously). I realize it's still a big cut and with 5 yrs experience, you're not going to come in at that level but it's still way way better than some small firm paying 80k.

SEC doesn't formally have a freeze, but there have been and are expected to be very few openings. The postings sent around recently were only for internal folks. Plus it sounds like OP would be ok with a GS scale salary, so while the SEC would be nice, she doesn't need it financially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SEC? I'm not sure if it's completely frozen shut right now or if there is hiring here and there. I know people who were pushed out of their NYC biglaw firms as 8-10th yrs who are now there making 1st yr associate money (sans bonus obviously). I realize it's still a big cut and with 5 yrs experience, you're not going to come in at that level but it's still way way better than some small firm paying 80k.

SEC doesn't formally have a freeze, but there have been and are expected to be very few openings. The postings sent around recently were only for internal folks. Plus it sounds like OP would be ok with a GS scale salary, so while the SEC would be nice, she doesn't need it financially.

Maybe not, but I think she's got the right idea in figuring out a decent situation for herself -- even though that isn't the SEC right now. There have been millions of associates who were "about to make partner" and guess what it never materialized. Until her DH is voted in, anything can happen no matter how much they say they love him.

USAOs are hiring as well, though obviously you have to first figure out whether DH makes partner or not bc you'd very very likely need to move for that job if you were to get one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you try in-house? They should pay better than the small firm you applied.

I'm a litigator so my in house options are few and far between. I have been looking there too. Unfortunately my clients that like me and might be willing to create a job for me if I really worked that angle are not places we can move.

Unfortunately, it's time for you to consider leaving DC. Litigation jobs in house are rare and are usually not in DC (they're at corporate HQ - not too many companies have their HQs in DC). If you have a white collar litigation defense background, you might be able to land an in-house compliance gig.

If you're lucky enough to land an in-house gig in the DC area, it will likely pay only 2/3 (possibly less) than your BIGLAW salary + bonus. Likely somewhere $150k-$175k plus 20% bonus - in other words, high $100s to low $200s. This is livable in DC, but you won't be able to afford private school, a new BMW/Audi/Mercedes, beautiful furniture, $5k+ worth of vacations, and pay off your student loans. More likely than not, you'll drive a Honda, take an annual vacation to Disney (or to a nearby beach)

What a pitiful life. So materialistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you try in-house? They should pay better than the small firm you applied.

I'm a litigator so my in house options are few and far between. I have been looking there too. Unfortunately my clients that like me and might be willing to create a job for me if I really worked that angle are not places we can move.

Unfortunately, it's time for you to consider leaving DC. Litigation jobs in house are rare and are usually not in DC (they're at corporate HQ - not too many companies have their HQs in DC). If you have a white collar litigation defense background, you might be able to land an in-house compliance gig.

If you're lucky enough to land an in-house gig in the DC area, it will likely pay only 2/3 (possibly less) than your BIGLAW salary + bonus. Likely somewhere $150k-$175k plus 20% bonus - in other words, high $100s to low $200s. This is livable in DC, but you won't be able to afford private school, a new BMW/Audi/Mercedes, beautiful furniture, $5k+ worth of vacations, and pay off your student loans. More likely than not, you'll drive a Honda, take an annual vacation to Disney (or to a nearby beach)

What a pitiful life. So materialistic.

PP provided useful salary info on a potential job prospect for OP and (colorfully) outlined some trade offs required with such a job shift. You made a pointless, nasty comment on an internet board at midnight.

Who has a pitiful life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to note how hilariously high the views are for this thread (versus not all that many people actually responding to OP). There are obviously a lot of miserable biglaw associates lurking.

Checking in.

I think there are plenty of people like me here too. Truly middle class people (our HHI's right around 100K) who have a certain fascination with the BigLaw phenomena.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to note how hilariously high the views are for this thread (versus not all that many people actually responding to OP). There are obviously a lot of miserable biglaw associates lurking.

Checking in.

I think there are plenty of people like me here too. Truly middle class people (our HHI's right around 100K) who have a certain fascination with the BigLaw phenomena.

It's just about different desires for life. Nothing is "right" or "wrong"

I left Biglaw five years ago as a seventh-year, being told that I was a "shoe-in" for partner, though really, you never know until you actually get partnership, and even then, you have to fight like hell to build your book of business. I was miserable in Biglaw, and I had two kids who I never saw. I went to a non-GS federal agency, and my husband also works at one. We make about 350k/year, and that seems like bucketloads of money to us, even though we have student loans, childcare, etc. We are able to go on vacations (not Aspen skiing or Europe first-class, but we have fun). We drive six-year-old Subarus, not Lexus and BMW. But we also can stagger our schedules so we can drop off and pick up our kids from school, have dinner together every night, etc. To me, that's more important than fancy cars, private schools, and expensive vacations, but I completely understand why others would not want to make that tradeoff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to note how hilariously high the views are for this thread (versus not all that many people actually responding to OP). There are obviously a lot of miserable biglaw associates lurking.

Checking in.

I think there are plenty of people like me here too. Truly middle class people (our HHI's right around 100K) who have a certain fascination with the BigLaw phenomena.

It's just about different desires for life. Nothing is "right" or "wrong"

I left Biglaw five years ago as a seventh-year, being told that I was a "shoe-in" for partner, though really, you never know until you actually get partnership, and even then, you have to fight like hell to build your book of business. I was miserable in Biglaw, and I had two kids who I never saw. I went to a non-GS federal agency, and my husband also works at one. We make about 350k/year, and that seems like bucketloads of money to us, even though we have student loans, childcare, etc. We are able to go on vacations (not Aspen skiing or Europe first-class, but we have fun). We drive six-year-old Subarus, not Lexus and BMW. But we also can stagger our schedules so we can drop off and pick up our kids from school, have dinner together every night, etc. To me, that's more important than fancy cars, private schools, and expensive vacations, but I completely understand why others would not want to make that tradeoff.

That sounds wonderful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to note how hilariously high the views are for this thread (versus not all that many people actually responding to OP). There are obviously a lot of miserable biglaw associates lurking.

Checking in.

I think there are plenty of people like me here too. Truly middle class people (our HHI's right around 100K) who have a certain fascination with the BigLaw phenomena.

The “phenomena” is largely a result of the background of attorneys who work in biglaw. A great majority come from well-to-do families and worked hard to get into the best law schools they could and then busted their butts to position themselves within their law school classes. So there is a pervasive mentality that you’ve got to be the best. This is also why there are so many alcoholic and depressed lawyers (I believe second in the US only to dentists). Since 80% of attorneys do not end up in biglaw bigpay positions they feel inferior to their peers who are now cashing in on all that education and grooming.

That said, I think the perception of the law as a get rich scheme is going the way of the dodo bird. Most people are waking up to the fact that there are more lawyers than lawyer jobs to fill and going to law school is at best a good way to position yourself for a comfortable middle class life. A few will get the top spots but many many more will end up in good, but less lucrative positions. That is more aligned with reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to note how hilariously high the views are for this thread (versus not all that many people actually responding to OP). There are obviously a lot of miserable biglaw associates lurking.

Checking in.

I think there are plenty of people like me here too. Truly middle class people (our HHI's right around 100K) who have a certain fascination with the BigLaw phenomena.

It's just about different desires for life. Nothing is "right" or "wrong"

I left Biglaw five years ago as a seventh-year, being told that I was a "shoe-in" for partner, though really, you never know until you actually get partnership, and even then, you have to fight like hell to build your book of business. I was miserable in Biglaw, and I had two kids who I never saw. I went to a non-GS federal agency, and my husband also works at one. We make about 350k/year, and that seems like bucketloads of money to us, even though we have student loans, childcare, etc. We are able to go on vacations (not Aspen skiing or Europe first-class, but we have fun). We drive six-year-old Subarus, not Lexus and BMW. But we also can stagger our schedules so we can drop off and pick up our kids from school, have dinner together every night, etc. To me, that's more important than fancy cars, private schools, and expensive vacations, but I completely understand why others would not want to make that tradeoff.

That sounds wonderful.

I think a lot of people would take that trade off if they could get it, especially with both of you at non-GS agencies. If your scales are similar to the one I am familiar with, you should be able to get to HHI of over $400K in not too many years (assuming no freezes) and over $450K if you both can manage to be promoted.

Not that two GS 15-10s can't manage pretty well, even in this area, but there is a meaningful difference in potential salary and lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been applying to smaller firms where I think I'd be happier but haven't gotten an offer in the range of what I could accept. I'm deeply dreading going back tomorrow. I hate my firm, it's a terrible fit. I didn't come close to hours last year, so I am sure the dissatisfaction is mutual. Also, I'm pregnant, so it's not a great time for job hunting. Would really appreciate some words of wisdom.

OP I'm a 9th year, also a general litigator, and about to leave big law because I'm not going to make partner. When I started looking for jobs, the salary ranges were SHOCKING compared to biglaw. Seriously. Govt is $164k for a GS 15-10 and in-house has been in the $135-145k range. Prepare yourself for a major pay cut. Initially I said I wouldn't accept anything under $200k but the reality is that you'd be lucky to leave a large law firm and still make that much, especially in the D.C. area. What salary range are you looking for?

If I were you, I would aggressively look for a job with the goal of making a move after your maternity leave. Take advantage of the maternity leave at your current job, for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been applying to smaller firms where I think I'd be happier but haven't gotten an offer in the range of what I could accept. I'm deeply dreading going back tomorrow. I hate my firm, it's a terrible fit. I didn't come close to hours last year, so I am sure the dissatisfaction is mutual. Also, I'm pregnant, so it's not a great time for job hunting. Would really appreciate some words of wisdom.

OP I'm a 9th year, also a general litigator, and about to leave big law because I'm not going to make partner. When I started looking for jobs, the salary ranges were SHOCKING compared to biglaw. Seriously. Govt is $164k for a GS 15-10 and in-house has been in the $135-145k range. Prepare yourself for a major pay cut. Initially I said I wouldn't accept anything under $200k but the reality is that you'd be lucky to leave a large law firm and still make that much, especially in the D.C. area. What salary range are you looking for?

If I were you, I would aggressively look for a job with the goal of making a move after your maternity leave. Take advantage of the maternity leave at your current job, for sure.

I’m not sure why it’s so “shocking” - if you did any research whatsoever you’d see that biglaw salaries are a complete anomaly in the legal profession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been applying to smaller firms where I think I'd be happier but haven't gotten an offer in the range of what I could accept. I'm deeply dreading going back tomorrow. I hate my firm, it's a terrible fit. I didn't come close to hours last year, so I am sure the dissatisfaction is mutual. Also, I'm pregnant, so it's not a great time for job hunting. Would really appreciate some words of wisdom.

OP I'm a 9th year, also a general litigator, and about to leave big law because I'm not going to make partner. When I started looking for jobs, the salary ranges were SHOCKING compared to biglaw. Seriously. Govt is $164k for a GS 15-10 and in-house has been in the $135-145k range. Prepare yourself for a major pay cut. Initially I said I wouldn't accept anything under $200k but the reality is that you'd be lucky to leave a large law firm and still make that much, especially in the D.C. area. What salary range are you looking for?

If I were you, I would aggressively look for a job with the goal of making a move after your maternity leave. Take advantage of the maternity leave at your current job, for sure.

Thanks. I guess on some level I'm anxious about waiting, but how can I leave when I know I'm about to have to take mat leave?

I am expecting/looking for low end of 6 figures, but I was surprised by an offer under $100k for a firm that seems to be doing well.

[Anonymous]

Your DH is about to make partner and you live in a 500k home. Just relax! Take your maternity leave and then take that 85k/year 9-5 job. It will be fine for you guys financially.