Politics and your church

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Minister. I'm working for Hospice now, but was in a church before we moved. It's not easy for church leaders right now. Thankfully, my church was very tolerant and fairly liberal. LGBTQ friendly, diverse, open to discussions on different faiths, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to live like the Christ we claimed to follow. So, while I know we had members who were Republicans and conservative, I really doubt we had anyone in our membership who would support Donald Trump.

That said, ministers avoid politics in the pulpit. For one, we risk our tax exempt status. More importantly, ministers in church leadership positions should not be politicians.

I'm not working in a church right now. I can be very active in my local political groups. And I am. I've spoken at several marches and Interfaith Prayer Breakfasts. I think clergy should be pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians turning away refugees. And frankly, if you support Donald Trump, you may claim to be a Christian, but you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ.

Shame on you.

One could say the exact same thing about Hillary and her stances.

The choices this cycle were very difficult for all people of faith. Many Christians voted to protect tehe supreme court. They did the bexst they could with the two terrible choices.

I agree PP. I was agreeing with what the so called minister wrote right up to that line. Really dismaying and shocking.

Minister here - Let me be clearer because it's important. I did NOT say the poster was "not a Christian". I said "you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ". Those are two very different things. I certainly don't always behave in a Christ-like manner and I don't know anyone who does.

As a minister, I will call out Christians who are professing to love Christ but acting in opposition to everything we know about him. That's what we are supposed to do. I did it when I was leading churches, and I'll do it now. If you tell me you are a Christian, great. I don't know your heart. But when your actions don't match your faith, there is a problem.

Everything we know about Jesus Christ suggests that he would be in direct opposition to this ban. Period. There is zero room for debate on this.

Do you call out Hillary, Obama and the extreme left on their abortion stance? Theit views are very much contradictory to the teachings of Christ.

Do you call out the extreme left for seeking out and targeting Christian individually owned an sole proprietor small businesses such as florists and photographers and attacking the. With hateful rhetoric, shutting them down, threatening them and preventing them to use their God given talents to earn a livelihood? I doubt it.

If you are going to say you speak out when people are not behaving Christ like, then you need to start in your own political house first.

Christ did not mention abortion. Ever. He did mention refugees quite a lot, and loving others as yourself.

I'm Presbyterian, and while abortion isn't encourage, neither is it prohibited.

Wait, killing babies in the womb is "loving others"? Jesus said it would be better if you were thrown into the sea with a millstone around your neck than to hurt a child. Do you really think Jesus didn't care about humans when they were their absolutely most vulnerable?

Embryo and a refugee child hanging over the edge of the building. Which do you save?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Minister. I'm working for Hospice now, but was in a church before we moved. It's not easy for church leaders right now. Thankfully, my church was very tolerant and fairly liberal. LGBTQ friendly, diverse, open to discussions on different faiths, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to live like the Christ we claimed to follow. So, while I know we had members who were Republicans and conservative, I really doubt we had anyone in our membership who would support Donald Trump.

That said, ministers avoid politics in the pulpit. For one, we risk our tax exempt status. More importantly, ministers in church leadership positions should not be politicians.

I'm not working in a church right now. I can be very active in my local political groups. And I am. I've spoken at several marches and Interfaith Prayer Breakfasts. I think clergy should be pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians turning away refugees. And frankly, if you support Donald Trump, you may claim to be a Christian, but you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ.

Shame on you.

One could say the exact same thing about Hillary and her stances.

The choices this cycle were very difficult for all people of faith. Many Christians voted to protect tehe supreme court. They did the bexst they could with the two terrible choices.

I agree PP. I was agreeing with what the so called minister wrote right up to that line. Really dismaying and shocking.

Minister here - Let me be clearer because it's important. I did NOT say the poster was "not a Christian". I said "you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ". Those are two very different things. I certainly don't always behave in a Christ-like manner and I don't know anyone who does.

As a minister, I will call out Christians who are professing to love Christ but acting in opposition to everything we know about him. That's what we are supposed to do. I did it when I was leading churches, and I'll do it now. If you tell me you are a Christian, great. I don't know your heart. But when your actions don't match your faith, there is a problem.

Everything we know about Jesus Christ suggests that he would be in direct opposition to this ban. Period. There is zero room for debate on this.

Do you call out Hillary, Obama and the extreme left on their abortion stance? Theit views are very much contradictory to the teachings of Christ.

Do you call out the extreme left for seeking out and targeting Christian individually owned an sole proprietor small businesses such as florists and photographers and attacking the. With hateful rhetoric, shutting them down, threatening them and preventing them to use their God given talents to earn a livelihood? I doubt it.

If you are going to say you speak out when people are not behaving Christ like, then you need to start in your own political house first.

Christ did not mention abortion. Ever. He did mention refugees quite a lot, and loving others as yourself.

I'm Presbyterian, and while abortion isn't encourage, neither is it prohibited.

Wait, killing babies in the womb is "loving others"? Jesus said it would be better if you were thrown into the sea with a millstone around your neck than to hurt a child. Do you really think Jesus didn't care about humans when they were their absolutely most vulnerable?

Embryo and a refugee child hanging over the edge of the building. Which do you save?

It's a dumb question. For one, if you're hanging an embryo over a building edge, it's already dead since it's outside the mother.

You next: Your mother or a refugee hanging over the edge of a building. Which do you save?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Minister. I'm working for Hospice now, but was in a church before we moved. It's not easy for church leaders right now. Thankfully, my church was very tolerant and fairly liberal. LGBTQ friendly, diverse, open to discussions on different faiths, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to live like the Christ we claimed to follow. So, while I know we had members who were Republicans and conservative, I really doubt we had anyone in our membership who would support Donald Trump.

That said, ministers avoid politics in the pulpit. For one, we risk our tax exempt status. More importantly, ministers in church leadership positions should not be politicians.

I'm not working in a church right now. I can be very active in my local political groups. And I am. I've spoken at several marches and Interfaith Prayer Breakfasts. I think clergy should be pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians turning away refugees. And frankly, if you support Donald Trump, you may claim to be a Christian, but you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ.

Shame on you.

One could say the exact same thing about Hillary and her stances.

The choices this cycle were very difficult for all people of faith. Many Christians voted to protect tehe supreme court. They did the bexst they could with the two terrible choices.

I agree PP. I was agreeing with what the so called minister wrote right up to that line. Really dismaying and shocking.

Minister here - Let me be clearer because it's important. I did NOT say the poster was "not a Christian". I said "you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ". Those are two very different things. I certainly don't always behave in a Christ-like manner and I don't know anyone who does.

As a minister, I will call out Christians who are professing to love Christ but acting in opposition to everything we know about him. That's what we are supposed to do. I did it when I was leading churches, and I'll do it now. If you tell me you are a Christian, great. I don't know your heart. But when your actions don't match your faith, there is a problem.

Everything we know about Jesus Christ suggests that he would be in direct opposition to this ban. Period. There is zero room for debate on this.

Do you call out Hillary, Obama and the extreme left on their abortion stance? Theit views are very much contradictory to the teachings of Christ.

Do you call out the extreme left for seeking out and targeting Christian individually owned an sole proprietor small businesses such as florists and photographers and attacking the. With hateful rhetoric, shutting them down, threatening them and preventing them to use their God given talents to earn a livelihood? I doubt it.

If you are going to say you speak out when people are not behaving Christ like, then you need to start in your own political house first.

Christ did not mention abortion. Ever. He did mention refugees quite a lot, and loving others as yourself.

I'm Presbyterian, and while abortion isn't encourage, neither is it prohibited.

Wait, killing babies in the womb is "loving others"? Jesus said it would be better if you were thrown into the sea with a millstone around your neck than to hurt a child. Do you really think Jesus didn't care about humans when they were their absolutely most vulnerable?

Embryo and a refugee child hanging over the edge of the building. Which do you save?

It's a dumb question. For one, if you're hanging an embryo over a building edge, it's already dead since it's outside the mother.

You next: Your mother or a refugee hanging over the edge of a building. Which do you save?

If its a child I save the child. The other is of course an impossible choice.

If I was a pregnant woman hanging and next to me was a child, I would tell you to choose the child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Minister. I'm working for Hospice now, but was in a church before we moved. It's not easy for church leaders right now. Thankfully, my church was very tolerant and fairly liberal. LGBTQ friendly, diverse, open to discussions on different faiths, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to live like the Christ we claimed to follow. So, while I know we had members who were Republicans and conservative, I really doubt we had anyone in our membership who would support Donald Trump.

That said, ministers avoid politics in the pulpit. For one, we risk our tax exempt status. More importantly, ministers in church leadership positions should not be politicians.

I'm not working in a church right now. I can be very active in my local political groups. And I am. I've spoken at several marches and Interfaith Prayer Breakfasts. I think clergy should be pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians turning away refugees. And frankly, if you support Donald Trump, you may claim to be a Christian, but you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ.

Shame on you.

One could say the exact same thing about Hillary and her stances.

The choices this cycle were very difficult for all people of faith. Many Christians voted to protect tehe supreme court. They did the bexst they could with the two terrible choices.

I agree PP. I was agreeing with what the so called minister wrote right up to that line. Really dismaying and shocking.

Minister here - Let me be clearer because it's important. I did NOT say the poster was "not a Christian". I said "you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ". Those are two very different things. I certainly don't always behave in a Christ-like manner and I don't know anyone who does.

As a minister, I will call out Christians who are professing to love Christ but acting in opposition to everything we know about him. That's what we are supposed to do. I did it when I was leading churches, and I'll do it now. If you tell me you are a Christian, great. I don't know your heart. But when your actions don't match your faith, there is a problem.

Everything we know about Jesus Christ suggests that he would be in direct opposition to this ban. Period. There is zero room for debate on this.

Do you call out Hillary, Obama and the extreme left on their abortion stance? Theit views are very much contradictory to the teachings of Christ.

Do you call out the extreme left for seeking out and targeting Christian individually owned an sole proprietor small businesses such as florists and photographers and attacking the. With hateful rhetoric, shutting them down, threatening them and preventing them to use their God given talents to earn a livelihood? I doubt it.

If you are going to say you speak out when people are not behaving Christ like, then you need to start in your own political house first.

Christ did not mention abortion. Ever. He did mention refugees quite a lot, and loving others as yourself.

I'm Presbyterian, and while abortion isn't encourage, neither is it prohibited.

Wait, killing babies in the womb is "loving others"? Jesus said it would be better if you were thrown into the sea with a millstone around your neck than to hurt a child. Do you really think Jesus didn't care about humans when they were their absolutely most vulnerable?

Embryo and a refugee child hanging over the edge of the building. Which do you save?

It's a dumb question. For one, if you're hanging an embryo over a building edge, it's already dead since it's outside the mother.

You next: Your mother or a refugee hanging over the edge of a building. Which do you save?

If its a child I save the child. The other is of course an impossible choice.

If I was a pregnant woman hanging and next to me was a child, I would tell you to choose the child.

And while the practical hypothetical isn't great, the theoretical one is solid. If you are choosing between abortion and refugee children as voting topics, you are choosing between real children and potential children.

In my mind there is no question that real live breathing healthy children should be a priority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it interesting how many people find their virtue in their voting patterns, rather than what they actually DO for other people. I've seen the protests on this issue. I wonder how many people with their mouths wide open shouting about this would actually take in, feed and clothe someone who needed help.

The above poster who said there isn't a single line about Jesus not taking in refugees misses a few biblical points. One, it is God who raises up rulers for the nations, for His purposes. Obama was raised up by God, and so was Trump. Two, Jesus deferred to the government when asked whether taxes should be paid: "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's." He didn't get involved in political disputes. Three, one of the reasons Christ was crucified is because the Jews, whom He came to save (in addition to Gentiles, too) were looking for a POLITICAL leader, and so they didn't recognize that He was the Messiah. The tone of many of these posts is the same thing. We are all sinful men, lead by sinful men. There will be no perfect government until Christ returns, and even then, people will reject Him (this is all in Revelation). But we are not to put our trust in men, but in Christ.

I'm sure there are racist people all over the political spectrum. There is a lot of hypocrisy on all sides, too, because man is prideful, and hypocrisy stems from a pride of ones views and superiority. But there are good people of good will and compassionate concern who see the tension inherent in the political problems we face. The minister who hates evangelical Christians speaking absolutely for God turns around and speaks absolutely for God when she claims to know exactly how God wants us to understand these difficult situations politically. It's more complex than just, "Love refugees," when there ARE people who are using refugees as a shield to attempt to murder others.

As Christians, however, we are to find our righteousness in Christ. Not in being like Christ, because we will all fall short, and the Bible does say that all our own righteousness is as filthy rags. But to trust in Christ's righteousness as greater than our own, because He is God and it is only in His righteousness that anyone is right with God. It is not our political views, or how we vote, and anyone trying to exhibit Christlikness should stop trying to stir up discord among believers.

I love you and your post.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Minister. I'm working for Hospice now, but was in a church before we moved. It's not easy for church leaders right now. Thankfully, my church was very tolerant and fairly liberal. LGBTQ friendly, diverse, open to discussions on different faiths, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to live like the Christ we claimed to follow. So, while I know we had members who were Republicans and conservative, I really doubt we had anyone in our membership who would support Donald Trump.

That said, ministers avoid politics in the pulpit. For one, we risk our tax exempt status. More importantly, ministers in church leadership positions should not be politicians.

I'm not working in a church right now. I can be very active in my local political groups. And I am. I've spoken at several marches and Interfaith Prayer Breakfasts. I think clergy should be pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians turning away refugees. And frankly, if you support Donald Trump, you may claim to be a Christian, but you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ.

Shame on you.

One could say the exact same thing about Hillary and her stances.

The choices this cycle were very difficult for all people of faith. Many Christians voted to protect tehe supreme court. They did the bexst they could with the two terrible choices.

I agree PP. I was agreeing with what the so called minister wrote right up to that line. Really dismaying and shocking.

Minister here - Let me be clearer because it's important. I did NOT say the poster was "not a Christian". I said "you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ". Those are two very different things. I certainly don't always behave in a Christ-like manner and I don't know anyone who does.

As a minister, I will call out Christians who are professing to love Christ but acting in opposition to everything we know about him. That's what we are supposed to do. I did it when I was leading churches, and I'll do it now. If you tell me you are a Christian, great. I don't know your heart. But when your actions don't match your faith, there is a problem.

Everything we know about Jesus Christ suggests that he would be in direct opposition to this ban. Period. There is zero room for debate on this.

Do you call out Hillary, Obama and the extreme left on their abortion stance? Theit views are very much contradictory to the teachings of Christ.

Do you call out the extreme left for seeking out and targeting Christian individually owned an sole proprietor small businesses such as florists and photographers and attacking the. With hateful rhetoric, shutting them down, threatening them and preventing them to use their God given talents to earn a livelihood? I doubt it.

If you are going to say you speak out when people are not behaving Christ like, then you need to start in your own political house first.

Christ did not mention abortion. Ever. He did mention refugees quite a lot, and loving others as yourself.

I'm Presbyterian, and while abortion isn't encourage, neither is it prohibited.

Jeremiah 1 and Psalm 139 both say that God knew us before we were formed in the womb. God clearly recognizes our personhood before we are born, according to Scripture.

In Exodus, we see that murder is prohibited is the Sixth Commandment.

Jesus said in Matthew 5, Christ said that He came to fulfill the law.

So it's pretty easy to see that Christ actually did prohibit abortion.

That's not what those Bible quotes refer to. So no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How political is your church getting right now? I feel like the local diocese for my church is getting a bit too political. The bishops even wrote a letter to the local delegate about certain issues. I am not sure how I feel about this. I am more conflicted over the fact that they wrote the delegate than about the issues within the letter. I agree with the church on many issues. However, I feel like this is mixing church and state. Also, our country is very divided right now. I worry that this could create more division within the congregation itself. Are other churches becoming involved in the political situation?

Separation of church and state means that there isn't an official government sanctioned/approved church. It does not mean that people of faith and faith leaders cannot hold political views and espouse them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Minister. I'm working for Hospice now, but was in a church before we moved. It's not easy for church leaders right now. Thankfully, my church was very tolerant and fairly liberal. LGBTQ friendly, diverse, open to discussions on different faiths, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to live like the Christ we claimed to follow. So, while I know we had members who were Republicans and conservative, I really doubt we had anyone in our membership who would support Donald Trump.

That said, ministers avoid politics in the pulpit. For one, we risk our tax exempt status. More importantly, ministers in church leadership positions should not be politicians.

I'm not working in a church right now. I can be very active in my local political groups. And I am. I've spoken at several marches and Interfaith Prayer Breakfasts. I think clergy should be pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians turning away refugees. And frankly, if you support Donald Trump, you may claim to be a Christian, but you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ.

Shame on you.

One could say the exact same thing about Hillary and her stances.

The choices this cycle were very difficult for all people of faith. Many Christians voted to protect tehe supreme court. They did the bexst they could with the two terrible choices.

I agree PP. I was agreeing with what the so called minister wrote right up to that line. Really dismaying and shocking.

Minister here - Let me be clearer because it's important. I did NOT say the poster was "not a Christian". I said "you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ". Those are two very different things. I certainly don't always behave in a Christ-like manner and I don't know anyone who does.

As a minister, I will call out Christians who are professing to love Christ but acting in opposition to everything we know about him. That's what we are supposed to do. I did it when I was leading churches, and I'll do it now. If you tell me you are a Christian, great. I don't know your heart. But when your actions don't match your faith, there is a problem.

Everything we know about Jesus Christ suggests that he would be in direct opposition to this ban. Period. There is zero room for debate on this.

Do you call out Hillary, Obama and the extreme left on their abortion stance? Theit views are very much contradictory to the teachings of Christ.

Do you call out the extreme left for seeking out and targeting Christian individually owned an sole proprietor small businesses such as florists and photographers and attacking the. With hateful rhetoric, shutting them down, threatening them and preventing them to use their God given talents to earn a livelihood? I doubt it.

If you are going to say you speak out when people are not behaving Christ like, then you need to start in your own political house first.

Jesus did not talk about abortion, so I have no idea what his views on that would be. He also did not mention homosexuality despite it being very common in his day.

I don't call out specific people. I don't think everyone who voted for Trump is "bad". I do think if you are supporting his ban (with the religious means test), you need to spend some time thinking about what your Christ would have done. Maybe reread the story of The Good Samaritan. Think about what it means to "love your neighbor" and what was meant by "Whatever you do to the least of these you do to me". Our actions are much more important than our words. Just saying you are a Christian isn't enough enough, at least not by any definition I can imagine.

This isn't about individual politicians. I'm certainly no fan of Hillary Clinton's. This is about about actions. Trump is the one in the White House. His decisions right now represent everything that Christ spoke against.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Minister. I'm working for Hospice now, but was in a church before we moved. It's not easy for church leaders right now. Thankfully, my church was very tolerant and fairly liberal. LGBTQ friendly, diverse, open to discussions on different faiths, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to live like the Christ we claimed to follow. So, while I know we had members who were Republicans and conservative, I really doubt we had anyone in our membership who would support Donald Trump.

That said, ministers avoid politics in the pulpit. For one, we risk our tax exempt status. More importantly, ministers in church leadership positions should not be politicians.

I'm not working in a church right now. I can be very active in my local political groups. And I am. I've spoken at several marches and Interfaith Prayer Breakfasts. I think clergy should be pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians turning away refugees. And frankly, if you support Donald Trump, you may claim to be a Christian, but you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ.

And you're a troll. No true Christian minister would make a statement like this, even anonymously.

P.S. He's not "my Christ." He saved us all.

First, I'm not a troll just because I believe our actions demonstrate our faith. Faith without action is dead. Meaningless.

Second, I am at Prayer Breakfasts once a month with ministers from many faiths. The only ones who don't have the balls to call out Trump's behavior are the evangelical Southern Baptists. And honesty, I think they know. They are just too scared to say it. Religious leaders, including Christians, all over the world are condemning Trump's actions.

Third, you realize his name wasn't Jesus (first name) Christ (last name), right? He is " your Christ". As a Christian, he is my Christ. My way shower. But not everyone on this great big planet follows your spiritual path. So no. Not everyone believes he "saved" them.

Nice language. Exactly what type of "minister" are you?

One who despises hypocrisy. Remember when Christ flipped over the tables? At least I haven't thrown anything ....yet.

But you're kind of a hypocrite yourself. You claim to love others, but you ascribe ill will to anyone who doesn't subscribe to your assessment of what is a complex situation that people of good will can approach from different perspectives. You have posted elsewhere that we all need to empathize and sympathize with others, but you refuse to do this when their politics don't align with yours.

As for Jesus turning over tables, that was something He did in the temple when people were profitting from the worship of God. He did this because He had the authority to, since He was God Himself. The allusion doesn't work so well applied to yourself.

This is not a "complex situation". It's very simple - The US is at least in part to blame for the crisis in the Middle East. We are the ones that left a power vacuum that ISIS (and other terror groups) were happy to fill. We have a moral obligation to help those suffering and fleeing war-torn countries. I don't have an issue with vetting. I'm even ok with a temporary ban on people coming from countries known to harbor terrorists. If I remember correctly, all but one of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia - oddly absent from the list. We are talking about people who were turned away who had green cards. Translators that served alongside our military. People who had already been granted entry. There have been exactly 0 attacks in the US from refugees. Zero. Even Paul Ryan admitted the roll out was a disaster.

I have never "ascribed ill will towards anyone". Pointing out hypocrisy is not the same as wishing bad things would happen to another human. I would never in a million years do that. I can say that the behavior is not in line with what Christ taught without wishing ill on another person. What do you think I say when a church member comes to me confessing an affair, for example? They are not "bad". The behavior is. It's really a very basic concept. I believe all human beings are inherently good. We just sometimes make bad decisions. We depend on other humans to help us when we are not living our lives in alignment with our values.

Jesus flipped the tables over because he was angry about the hypocrisy he saw in the temple. And yes, modeling (well, trying my best to model) my behavior after Christ is exactly what it means to be a Christian. Being a Christian literally means seeking to live like our way-shower. Like Christ.

[Anonymous]

I am disappointed in how political my synagogue has become. For the last couple of weeks, and for some time to come, we will be focusing on the story of "pharoah" an authoritarian ruler who stirred up hatred against a small religious minority. And all too often they quote "Do not ill-treat a stranger or oppress him, for you were strangers in Egypt " I think it is disgusting the way they have politicized the weekly torah reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Minister. I'm working for Hospice now, but was in a church before we moved. It's not easy for church leaders right now. Thankfully, my church was very tolerant and fairly liberal. LGBTQ friendly, diverse, open to discussions on different faiths, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to live like the Christ we claimed to follow. So, while I know we had members who were Republicans and conservative, I really doubt we had anyone in our membership who would support Donald Trump.

That said, ministers avoid politics in the pulpit. For one, we risk our tax exempt status. More importantly, ministers in church leadership positions should not be politicians.

I'm not working in a church right now. I can be very active in my local political groups. And I am. I've spoken at several marches and Interfaith Prayer Breakfasts. I think clergy should be pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians turning away refugees. And frankly, if you support Donald Trump, you may claim to be a Christian, but you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ.

And you're a troll. No true Christian minister would make a statement like this, even anonymously.

P.S. He's not "my Christ." He saved us all.

First, I'm not a troll just because I believe our actions demonstrate our faith. Faith without action is dead. Meaningless.

Second, I am at Prayer Breakfasts once a month with ministers from many faiths. The only ones who don't have the balls to call out Trump's behavior are the evangelical Southern Baptists. And honesty, I think they know. They are just too scared to say it. Religious leaders, including Christians, all over the world are condemning Trump's actions.

Third, you realize his name wasn't Jesus (first name) Christ (last name), right? He is " your Christ". As a Christian, he is my Christ. My way shower. But not everyone on this great big planet follows your spiritual path. So no. Not everyone believes he "saved" them.

Nice language. Exactly what type of "minister" are you?

One who despises hypocrisy. Remember when Christ flipped over the tables? At least I haven't thrown anything ....yet.

But you're kind of a hypocrite yourself. You claim to love others, but you ascribe ill will to anyone who doesn't subscribe to your assessment of what is a complex situation that people of good will can approach from different perspectives. You have posted elsewhere that we all need to empathize and sympathize with others, but you refuse to do this when their politics don't align with yours.

As for Jesus turning over tables, that was something He did in the temple when people were profitting from the worship of God. He did this because He had the authority to, since He was God Himself. The allusion doesn't work so well applied to yourself.

This is not a "complex situation". It's very simple - The US is at least in part to blame for the crisis in the Middle East. We are the ones that left a power vacuum that ISIS (and other terror groups) were happy to fill. We have a moral obligation to help those suffering and fleeing war-torn countries. I don't have an issue with vetting. I'm even ok with a temporary ban on people coming from countries known to harbor terrorists. If I remember correctly, all but one of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia - oddly absent from the list. We are talking about people who were turned away who had green cards. Translators that served alongside our military. People who had already been granted entry. There have been exactly 0 attacks in the US from refugees. Zero. Even Paul Ryan admitted the roll out was a disaster.

I have never "ascribed ill will towards anyone". Pointing out hypocrisy is not the same as wishing bad things would happen to another human. I would never in a million years do that. I can say that the behavior is not in line with what Christ taught without wishing ill on another person. What do you think I say when a church member comes to me confessing an affair, for example? They are not "bad". The behavior is. It's really a very basic concept. I believe all human beings are inherently good. We just sometimes make bad decisions. We depend on other humans to help us when we are not living our lives in alignment with our values.

Jesus flipped the tables over because he was angry about the hypocrisy he saw in the temple. And yes, modeling (well, trying my best to model) my behavior after Christ is exactly what it means to be a Christian. Being a Christian literally means seeking to live like our way-shower. Like Christ.

Who said you wished bad things on anyone? I said you credited other people's viewpoints to ill will on their part, that they vote due to hypocrisy and lack of Christian concern, rather than their own understanding of the issues that they might have come to completely honestly. I don't think any normal person looks at this situation and thinks there are easy answers. Yes, I agree with you that our government helped contribute greatly to this situation. Some people might have looked at the geopolitical landscape and concluded that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton made a bad situation worse and that Hillary would have continued down a wrong path. It's possible to send aid to refugee organizations, or help feed widows and orphans, or any other number of good deeds, and still think some political solutions are better than others, even if they disagree with yours, and not be a hypocrite. But it reads from here like your self-appointed role to "call out hypocrisy" is self-righteousness and action and hypocritical of your own self. It's like Jesus's admonition to judge not lest you be judge is perfectly represented in what you are saying on here.

[Anonymous]

Jesus overturns the tables:

Matthew 21:12-13: Then Jesus went into the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those selling doves. And He declared to them, “It is written: ‘My house will be called a house of prayer.’ But you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”

John 2:14-16: "In the temple courts He found men selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and money changers seated at their tables. So He made a whip out of cords and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle. He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those selling doves He said, 'Get these out of here! How dare you turn My Father’s house into a marketplace!'"

I suppose you can read this liberally if you want, but this doesn't appear to be about hypocrisy, but about profaning the worship of God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jesus overturns the tables:

Matthew 21:12-13: Then Jesus went into the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those selling doves. And He declared to them, “It is written: ‘My house will be called a house of prayer.’ But you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”

John 2:14-16: "In the temple courts He found men selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and money changers seated at their tables. So He made a whip out of cords and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle. He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those selling doves He said, 'Get these out of here! How dare you turn My Father’s house into a marketplace!'"

I suppose you can read this liberally if you want, but this doesn't appear to be about hypocrisy, but about profaning the worship of God.

I don't think you need to read it "liberallly" to understand that Jesus was upset with the hypocrisy he saw in the church. However, in order to really understand why Christ reacted so strongly, you do need an understanding of Temple life and the political and religious climate at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Minister. I'm working for Hospice now, but was in a church before we moved. It's not easy for church leaders right now. Thankfully, my church was very tolerant and fairly liberal. LGBTQ friendly, diverse, open to discussions on different faiths, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to live like the Christ we claimed to follow. So, while I know we had members who were Republicans and conservative, I really doubt we had anyone in our membership who would support Donald Trump.

That said, ministers avoid politics in the pulpit. For one, we risk our tax exempt status. More importantly, ministers in church leadership positions should not be politicians.

I'm not working in a church right now. I can be very active in my local political groups. And I am. I've spoken at several marches and Interfaith Prayer Breakfasts. I think clergy should be pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians turning away refugees. And frankly, if you support Donald Trump, you may claim to be a Christian, but you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ.

Shame on you.

One could say the exact same thing about Hillary and her stances.

The choices this cycle were very difficult for all people of faith. Many Christians voted to protect tehe supreme court. They did the bexst they could with the two terrible choices.

I agree PP. I was agreeing with what the so called minister wrote right up to that line. Really dismaying and shocking.

Minister here - Let me be clearer because it's important. I did NOT say the poster was "not a Christian". I said "you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ". Those are two very different things. I certainly don't always behave in a Christ-like manner and I don't know anyone who does.

As a minister, I will call out Christians who are professing to love Christ but acting in opposition to everything we know about him. That's what we are supposed to do. I did it when I was leading churches, and I'll do it now. If you tell me you are a Christian, great. I don't know your heart. But when your actions don't match your faith, there is a problem.

Everything we know about Jesus Christ suggests that he would be in direct opposition to this ban. Period. There is zero room for debate on this.

Do you call out Hillary, Obama and the extreme left on their abortion stance? Theit views are very much contradictory to the teachings of Christ.

Do you call out the extreme left for seeking out and targeting Christian individually owned an sole proprietor small businesses such as florists and photographers and attacking the. With hateful rhetoric, shutting them down, threatening them and preventing them to use their God given talents to earn a livelihood? I doubt it.

If you are going to say you speak out when people are not behaving Christ like, then you need to start in your own political house first.

Jesus did not talk about abortion, so I have no idea what his views on that would be. He also did not mention homosexuality despite it being very common in his day.

I don't call out specific people. I don't think everyone who voted for Trump is "bad". I do think if you are supporting his ban (with the religious means test), you need to spend some time thinking about what your Christ would have done. Maybe reread the story of The Good Samaritan. Think about what it means to "love your neighbor" and what was meant by "Whatever you do to the least of these you do to me". Our actions are much more important than our words. Just saying you are a Christian isn't enough enough, at least not by any definition I can imagine.

This isn't about individual politicians. I'm certainly no fan of Hillary Clinton's. This is about about actions. Trump is the one in the White House. His decisions right now represent everything that Christ spoke against.

Oh please.

The Bible is very clear that murder -- the taking of an innocent life, which is what abortion is -- is wrong. And there is plenty of condemnation in the Bible of homosexual sin. Sorry this doesn't fit your current way of thinking, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Minister. I'm working for Hospice now, but was in a church before we moved. It's not easy for church leaders right now. Thankfully, my church was very tolerant and fairly liberal. LGBTQ friendly, diverse, open to discussions on different faiths, etc. We spent a lot of time trying to live like the Christ we claimed to follow. So, while I know we had members who were Republicans and conservative, I really doubt we had anyone in our membership who would support Donald Trump.

That said, ministers avoid politics in the pulpit. For one, we risk our tax exempt status. More importantly, ministers in church leadership positions should not be politicians.

I'm not working in a church right now. I can be very active in my local political groups. And I am. I've spoken at several marches and Interfaith Prayer Breakfasts. I think clergy should be pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians turning away refugees. And frankly, if you support Donald Trump, you may claim to be a Christian, but you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ.

Shame on you.

One could say the exact same thing about Hillary and her stances.

The choices this cycle were very difficult for all people of faith. Many Christians voted to protect tehe supreme court. They did the bexst they could with the two terrible choices.

I agree PP. I was agreeing with what the so called minister wrote right up to that line. Really dismaying and shocking.

Minister here - Let me be clearer because it's important. I did NOT say the poster was "not a Christian". I said "you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ". Those are two very different things. I certainly don't always behave in a Christ-like manner and I don't know anyone who does.

As a minister, I will call out Christians who are professing to love Christ but acting in opposition to everything we know about him. That's what we are supposed to do. I did it when I was leading churches, and I'll do it now. If you tell me you are a Christian, great. I don't know your heart. But when your actions don't match your faith, there is a problem.

Everything we know about Jesus Christ suggests that he would be in direct opposition to this ban. Period. There is zero room for debate on this.

Do you call out Hillary, Obama and the extreme left on their abortion stance? Theit views are very much contradictory to the teachings of Christ.

Do you call out the extreme left for seeking out and targeting Christian individually owned an sole proprietor small businesses such as florists and photographers and attacking the. With hateful rhetoric, shutting them down, threatening them and preventing them to use their God given talents to earn a livelihood? I doubt it.

If you are going to say you speak out when people are not behaving Christ like, then you need to start in your own political house first.

Jesus did not talk about abortion, so I have no idea what his views on that would be. He also did not mention homosexuality despite it being very common in his day.

I don't call out specific people. I don't think everyone who voted for Trump is "bad". I do think if you are supporting his ban (with the religious means test), you need to spend some time thinking about what your Christ would have done. Maybe reread the story of The Good Samaritan. Think about what it means to "love your neighbor" and what was meant by "Whatever you do to the least of these you do to me". Our actions are much more important than our words. Just saying you are a Christian isn't enough enough, at least not by any definition I can imagine.

This isn't about individual politicians. I'm certainly no fan of Hillary Clinton's. This is about about actions. Trump is the one in the White House. His decisions right now represent everything that Christ spoke against.

Oh please.

The Bible is very clear that murder -- the taking of an innocent life, which is what abortion is -- is wrong. And there is plenty of condemnation in the Bible of homosexual sin. Sorry this doesn't fit your current way of thinking, though.

The bible is clear about murder, it is not at all clear about abortion. In the old testament there is a line about only counting children older than one month!