Politics and your church
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Anonymous
One who despises hypocrisy. Remember when Christ flipped over the tables? At least I haven't thrown anything ....yet. |
Anonymous
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St. John's Episcopal in Bethesda, which many, including me have praised about when asked in this forum is now 100% political. It was once a fabulous place now the entire service, the entire adult forum is all about politics.
There used to have forums about parenting, stress of work and kids etc now it is about politics and has driven a wedge between many parishioners and the church is sending out emails asking for more money due to the budget not being met. Anyone see that impact happening at their church? The past several months have all been political, I know several families who are in the process of changing churches with changing churches goes their pledge. |
Anonymous
Minister here - Let me be clearer because it's important. I did NOT say the poster was "not a Christian". I said "you are behaving nothing at all like your Christ". Those are two very different things. I certainly don't always behave in a Christ-like manner and I don't know anyone who does. As a minister, I will call out Christians who are professing to love Christ but acting in opposition to everything we know about him. That's what we are supposed to do. I did it when I was leading churches, and I'll do it now. If you tell me you are a Christian, great. I don't know your heart. But when your actions don't match your faith, there is a problem. Everything we know about Jesus Christ suggests that he would be in direct opposition to this ban. Period. There is zero room for debate on this. |
Anonymous
+1 replace the word "muslim" and "refugee" with "leper" and ask yourself what Jesus would say. |
Anonymous
Do you call out Hillary, Obama and the extreme left on their abortion stance? Theit views are very much contradictory to the teachings of Christ. Do you call out the extreme left for seeking out and targeting Christian individually owned an sole proprietor small businesses such as florists and photographers and attacking the. With hateful rhetoric, shutting them down, threatening them and preventing them to use their God given talents to earn a livelihood? I doubt it. If you are going to say you speak out when people are not behaving Christ like, then you need to start in your own political house first. |
Anonymous
If I held an embryo in one hand and a child in the other, both over the edge of the building and asked you to chose which one I was going to drop what would you pick? Because that is the choice between voting primarily on abortion vs primarily on refugee policy. And no one is preventing Christian people from making a living. Anti discrimination is the law of the land, if you don't like it move to a country with no lines between church and state. |
Anonymous
But you're kind of a hypocrite yourself. You claim to love others, but you ascribe ill will to anyone who doesn't subscribe to your assessment of what is a complex situation that people of good will can approach from different perspectives. You have posted elsewhere that we all need to empathize and sympathize with others, but you refuse to do this when their politics don't align with yours. As for Jesus turning over tables, that was something He did in the temple when people were profitting from the worship of God. He did this because He had the authority to, since He was God Himself. The allusion doesn't work so well applied to yourself. |
Anonymous
I'm not the minister PP. But I find it telling that all you guys are doing is attacking him for calling you out and not really questioning his assessment. I would like you to point me to one single piece of scripture that implies that Jesus would turn away refugees. ONE line. It doesn't exist, it is antithetical to his entire stance. The bible doesn't talk about abortion. The closest it comes is to imply life starts when breath starts, that certainly isn't in line with what the church has determined. So you choose to be a single issue voter on something scripture does not specify in direct opposition to an issue that scripture is VERY VERY clear about. It is the central message of the bible and Jesus' teachings. Explain to me not why you could't vote for HRC, not why Obama was bad, but how Trump was a Christian choice. You could have abstained if you felt there was no moral choice. But there is no reading of scripture compatible with the policies Trump has espoused. None. |
Anonymous
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Christians should not be single issue voters about abortion. There's a movement in the Catholic Church about a consistent ethic to life. If you are that upset about abortion how can you not extend that same empathy to refugee children? We need to be good stewards of our earth, to ensure that future generations have the same quality of life as we do. Etc.
I'm also not clear on how gay civil marriage has anything to do with our rights as Christians. Most of the positions on the Republican platform were absolutely in opposition to Christ's teachings. There is no perfect candidate (and never will be) but I'm truly shocked that any Christian can be comfortable with Donald Trump as president. I know many Christians of many denominations and I don't know one who is happy about his presidency. |
Anonymous
Christ did not mention abortion. Ever. He did mention refugees quite a lot, and loving others as yourself. I'm Presbyterian, and while abortion isn't encourage, neither is it prohibited. |
Anonymous
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I find it interesting how many people find their virtue in their voting patterns, rather than what they actually DO for other people. I've seen the protests on this issue. I wonder how many people with their mouths wide open shouting about this would actually take in, feed and clothe someone who needed help.
The above poster who said there isn't a single line about Jesus not taking in refugees misses a few biblical points. One, it is God who raises up rulers for the nations, for His purposes. Obama was raised up by God, and so was Trump. Two, Jesus deferred to the government when asked whether taxes should be paid: "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's." He didn't get involved in political disputes. Three, one of the reasons Christ was crucified is because the Jews, whom He came to save (in addition to Gentiles, too) were looking for a POLITICAL leader, and so they didn't recognize that He was the Messiah. The tone of many of these posts is the same thing. We are all sinful men, lead by sinful men. There will be no perfect government until Christ returns, and even then, people will reject Him (this is all in Revelation). But we are not to put our trust in men, but in Christ. I'm sure there are racist people all over the political spectrum. There is a lot of hypocrisy on all sides, too, because man is prideful, and hypocrisy stems from a pride of ones views and superiority. But there are good people of good will and compassionate concern who see the tension inherent in the political problems we face. The minister who hates evangelical Christians speaking absolutely for God turns around and speaks absolutely for God when she claims to know exactly how God wants us to understand these difficult situations politically. It's more complex than just, "Love refugees," when there ARE people who are using refugees as a shield to attempt to murder others. As Christians, however, we are to find our righteousness in Christ. Not in being like Christ, because we will all fall short, and the Bible does say that all our own righteousness is as filthy rags. But to trust in Christ's righteousness as greater than our own, because He is God and it is only in His righteousness that anyone is right with God. It is not our political views, or how we vote, and anyone trying to exhibit Christlikness should stop trying to stir up discord among believers. |
Anonymous
Jeremiah 1 and Psalm 139 both say that God knew us before we were formed in the womb. God clearly recognizes our personhood before we are born, according to Scripture. In Exodus, we see that murder is prohibited is the Sixth Commandment. Jesus said in Matthew 5, Christ said that He came to fulfill the law. So it's pretty easy to see that Christ actually did prohibit abortion. |
Anonymous
Wait, killing babies in the womb is "loving others"? Jesus said it would be better if you were thrown into the sea with a millstone around your neck than to hurt a child. Do you really think Jesus didn't care about humans when they were their absolutely most vulnerable? |
Anonymous
There is so much I disagree with here (not the minister PP who does not seem to hate evangelicals) but I'm going to focus on the bolded. Facts: - Refugee visas are among the most difficult and random to attain. Therefore among the least appealing to terrorists as a way to enter the United States - No terrorist attack on US soil since the US Refugee act of 1980 was passed has been committed by a refugee. Zero attacks at the hands of refugees - The countries in the ban have not been responsible for any terror attacks in the US, refugee or other visa categories Note of clarification that seems to inform a lot of fear about refugees. Refugees are different from asylum seekers. Asylum seekers get their feet on your country's soil and request mercy. Most of the people walking into countries across Europe are asylees and refugees because there is significant migration happening as these people are fleeing these countries on foot. It is obviously impossible to vet someone before they walk into your country in a crowd of migrants. This is not what is happening when refugees come to America. Refugees coming to this country have been weeded out by the UN as real refugees and gone through 18-24 months of vetting. What is happening in Europe cannot happen here in the context of Syrian refugees because of geography. And none of this deals with the fact that Jesus's teachings did not say, 'care for your neighbor when it is comfortable, safe, and convenient for you'. |
Anonymous
Genesis 2:7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. |