FCPS Has Top Schools with NMSFs, APS Lags

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When you were destroyed in the last thread where you brought this up, the relative size of the two school systems is pertinent.

FCPS has 180,000 students. APS has less than 20,000.

Excluding TJ (a magnet school that pulls from all over, including Arlington) that's 289 for the 8 FCPS schools you listed compared to 57 for the two APS schools on the list.

That's one NMSF for every 623 FCPs students and one for every 350 APS student.

So, just stop. You've embarrassed yourself. Try to limit yourself to one ass-kicking a week, mkay? Thanks.

80% of TJ comes from Fairfax so there is no legitimate reason to exclude it. And, even if you did, the top neighborhood high schools in FCPS consistently outperform the Arlington schools, whether it's average SATs, the number of NMSFs, or US News ratings.

Arlington can't even punch, much less punch at its weight.

Of course you exclude TJ. That's like saying Boston's the best city in America cuz of Haaahvard. TJ is, by definition, an outlier.

You can't exclude TJ in this comparison because it's pulling so many Fairfax County students from other high schools. 80% of those FCPS students could be around 580 students from FCPS that received this recognition. It's a significant number. To be accurate you'd have to know exactly which school system each NMSF at TJ came from, but to estimate you could just take the numbers of NMSF times the percentage of TJ students from each county.

Oh, FFS. Half the applicants -- literally -- were Asian. It's self-selecting and an outlier. Besides, interest in TJ is waning -- applications were down 14% last year.

Do Asians not count in your world? What a strange remark. My guess is a lot of NMSF students are into places like TJ so they would be attracted to "outlier" stem schools whether in APS or FCPS.

Asian Americans from Fairfax "count" but the point is many kids at TJ would not be in base high schools in Fairfax if not for TJ--they wouldn't be in Fairfax (possibly even in the US) at all.

I hear this a lot, and genuinely want to know. How many kids attend TJ for FCPS MSs whose parents don't live in Fairfax County (or this country)? Or who did not come to this country until MS (that, came only to apply for TJ)? DC goes to Carson, which is the biggest TJ feeder, and with the TJ test being this weekend, it's all anyone is talking about right now. It's true a huge percentage of The Carson TJ applicants are Asian. But I have never met one who is not living with their parents (most in a SFH they own)-- and almost all are from Carson feeder ESs. I believe Asian families move to FCPS for AAP and TJ (instead of DC, Montgomery or PG County, or, yes, Arlington). Does anyone have numbers showing that more than a handful of kids are living here without their parents in MS just to apply to TJ? I have always though this is an urban myth. But maybe I'm just not seeing it?

A fair number. Do you not remember this highly-publicized story? It made national news. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/harvard-stanford-admissions-hoax-becomes-international-scandal/2015/06/18/4abac970-156a-11e5-89f3-61410da94eb1_story.html

See also cram schools: https://talkinstuff.wordpress.com/2009/07/05/korean-inspired-cram-schools/

There is an entire industry IN KOREA that helps prep kids for this school.

See, neither of these articles have anything to do with foreign TJ applicants or students or in any way imply the things you say they do. I certainly remember the TJ scandal discussed in the first last spring (and was appalled). But nothing in the article you linked mentions foreign TJ applicants or students-- it just mentions that TJ is largely Asian AMERICAN (which we all knew) and that the girl at the center of the scandal was Korean American, and that the scandal also made the Korean press. The second article DOES NOT say that there are school is Asian countries cramming Asian kids to get into TJ. It says that ONE family was so OTT that they sent their Asian American child to stay with family Korea over the summer to cram, because they felt American cram schools weren't tough enough. And that Asian style cram schools are popping up in Fairfax County for the SSAT,SAT, PSAT!, J test and other standardized tests. But these are serving Fairfax County kids, and we all know they are out there.

So once again, is there any actual evidence a significant number of TJ kids are foreign students, here without their parents, just to apply to or attend TJ? Besides "we all know this to be true," or "someone told me that someone told her that they heard of someone who..."

You don't seem to understand...

1) The Washington Post has reported that the ROK embassy publishes the admission requirements on its website. "In South Korea, TJ — yes, a public high school in an American suburb — gets rock-star status. The Korean Embassy has the admissions requirements for TJ on its Web site. Preschools near Korean churches advertise that they can help kids get into TJ. There is an entire subculture of Korean parents who establish residency in Northern Virginia — one parent comes, while the other usually stays behind — with the sole purpose of getting their kid into TJ" https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/genius-girl-a-harvard-stanford-admissions-hoax-and-elite-college-mania/2015/06/22/e955be78-1907-11e5-bd7f-4611a60dd8e5_story.html

2) There is an entire cottage industry in Korea devoted to this.

3) There are group houses of Korean high school students who attend TJ. The school refers to this as the "Korean Heritage Society."

The WaPo article doesn't have numbers. Are you saying that 10 Korean students go to TJ, or 100? Is half the school Korean, not Korean American?

I don't think anyone knows. They don't check immigration status at the door. The point is it's a magnet that pulls from far beyond NoVa.

That's the point. People making the argument that TJ is overrun with foreign students DON'T KNOW whether it is actually true. Are there 2-3 foreign students per class? 100? Maybe parents of current TJ kids have some idea? Certainly TJ has issues. And I agree it's a problem if a significant chunk of TJ kids aren't really coming from the TJ catchment. But, before you hang your hat on this argument, you should have some proof it's a real problem. Otherwise, it's just a proxy for your dislike of the TJ demographics (I have no problem with the "real" Asian students at TJ-- I just dislike all those "foreign" Asians who have taken over the school).

[Anonymous]

Not to mention stereotypes. For chrissakes, my Caucasian blonde son has 3,Asian best friends and my son is the only one to consistently get straight As (and doesn't need to study much).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That's the point. People making the argument that TJ is overrun with foreign students DON'T KNOW whether it is actually true. Are there 2-3 foreign students per class? 100? Maybe parents of current TJ kids have some idea? Certainly TJ has issues. And I agree it's a problem if a significant chunk of TJ kids aren't really coming from the TJ catchment. But, before you hang your hat on this argument, you should have some proof it's a real problem. Otherwise, it's just a proxy for your dislike of the TJ demographics (I have no problem with the "real" Asian students at TJ-- I just dislike all those "foreign" Asians who have taken over the school).

Yes, the information is largely anecdotal. But there's a consistent pattern of immigration from Korea to attend TJHSST and then possibly American University before returning to Korea. Several LinkedIn profiles show this pattern.

http://tjpartnershipfund.org/tjpartnershipfund/2014/11/04-alum-is-one-of-south-koreas-most-successful-entrepreneurs/

[Anonymous]

whichever school district has the most Asians is going to have the most NMSF's. Not rocket science here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That's the point. People making the argument that TJ is overrun with foreign students DON'T KNOW whether it is actually true. Are there 2-3 foreign students per class? 100? Maybe parents of current TJ kids have some idea? Certainly TJ has issues. And I agree it's a problem if a significant chunk of TJ kids aren't really coming from the TJ catchment. But, before you hang your hat on this argument, you should have some proof it's a real problem. Otherwise, it's just a proxy for your dislike of the TJ demographics (I have no problem with the "real" Asian students at TJ-- I just dislike all those "foreign" Asians who have taken over the school).

Yes, the information is largely anecdotal. But there's a consistent pattern of immigration from Korea to attend TJHSST and then possibly American University before returning to Korea. Several LinkedIn profiles show this pattern.

http://tjpartnershipfund.org/tjpartnershipfund/2014/11/04-alum-is-one-of-south-koreas-most-successful-entrepreneurs/

This is not a pattern" of anything. There are whites, Arabs, blacks, Hispanics going to Korea for jobs/opportunities. This kid mentioned is Asian American who happened to go to Korea to take advantage of an opportunity and to make money there.

Few non citizen Asians are mostly children of temporary visa holders such as diplomats, employees at International Agencies (World Bank/IMF), visiting professors, graduate students etc. They are in the country legally and may enroll kids in public schools or private schools.

Vast majority (90+%) of Asians at TJ are Asian Americans who were born here or came to US at early age. There may be some families who come during middle school years specifically for TJ but most of them fail to gain admission to TJ and very few are successful (probably less than 1% of the school population).

I am an Asian American (Korean) who had a kid recently graduate from TJ so I think I know what I am talking about so stop with this TJ is being run over by foreigners non-sense. You may dislike that the school is majority Asian/Asian American but stop spreading false information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not Op but I think this thread was started as a spinoff of the ridiculous APS booster thread touting one subset of one random rating about Arlington ES so you might want to issue your warning over there, too.

Which thread was started first? I think it was the one by the Arlington troll about "Niche" ratings of elementary schools. And then Arlington posters get bent out of shape over a thread with objective data about high schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not Op but I think this thread was started as a spinoff of the ridiculous APS booster thread touting one subset of one random rating about Arlington ES so you might want to issue your warning over there, too.

Which thread was started first? I think it was the one by the Arlington troll about "Niche" ratings of elementary schools. And then Arlington posters get bent out of shape over a thread with objective data about high schools?

[Anonymous]

The best days for FCPS are behind it. The future is bleak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The best days for FCPS are behind it. The future is bleak.

FCPS had a record number of NMSF this year. APS only had 8. Pitiful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to the Arlington posters on his thread who have validated our decision to not live in Arlington. We opted against Arlington in favor of Fairfax because of the lily white nature of its good schools and our feeling that, as Asian-Americans, we would be regarded as "other."

Your narrow minded views on Asians in Fairfax and at TJ are just as we suspected. We are much happier in Fairfax surrounded by a variety of hues.

No one said they aren't welcome, didn't earn their spots, etc., just that people (of any hue) who move into Fairfax just before TJ admissions year solely to apply to TJ and with the intention of leaving again if they don't get in can't claim that their success at TJ is proof of the quality of the FCPS system as a whole, only of the quality of TJ. I don't think twice about the Asian students or their parents at my child's APS elementary school, let along make assumptions about why they're there, they're simply his friends/classmates and his parents.

Totally missing the point. Posters are speaking derisively of the Asians at TJ and claiming that they are foreigners when there is NO evidence that any sizeable number of TJ students are coming from foreign countries for TJ. I know plenty of kids that have gone to TJ from our ES and MS and they are all American but many happen to be of Asian origin. The Arlington posters can't seem to get that these kids are Americans. And that is why I'm happy to not live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best days for FCPS are behind it. The future is bleak.

FCPS had a record number of NMSF this year. APS only had 8. Pitiful.

FCPS has a $75 million shortfall next year. That's pitiful!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to the Arlington posters on his thread who have validated our decision to not live in Arlington. We opted against Arlington in favor of Fairfax because of the lily white nature of its good schools and our feeling that, as Asian-Americans, we would be regarded as "other."

Your narrow minded views on Asians in Fairfax and at TJ are just as we suspected. We are much happier in Fairfax surrounded by a variety of hues.

No one said they aren't welcome, didn't earn their spots, etc., just that people (of any hue) who move into Fairfax just before TJ admissions year solely to apply to TJ and with the intention of leaving again if they don't get in can't claim that their success at TJ is proof of the quality of the FCPS system as a whole, only of the quality of TJ. I don't think twice about the Asian students or their parents at my child's APS elementary school, let along make assumptions about why they're there, they're simply his friends/classmates and his parents.

Totally missing the point. Posters are speaking derisively of the Asians at TJ and claiming that they are foreigners when there is NO evidence that any sizeable number of TJ students are coming from foreign countries for TJ. I know plenty of kids that have gone to TJ from our ES and MS and they are all American but many happen to be of Asian origin. The Arlington posters can't seem to get that these kids are Americans. And that is why I'm happy to not live there.

+1000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to the Arlington posters on his thread who have validated our decision to not live in Arlington. We opted against Arlington in favor of Fairfax because of the lily white nature of its good schools and our feeling that, as Asian-Americans, we would be regarded as "other."

Your narrow minded views on Asians in Fairfax and at TJ are just as we suspected. We are much happier in Fairfax surrounded by a variety of hues.

No one said they aren't welcome, didn't earn their spots, etc., just that people (of any hue) who move into Fairfax just before TJ admissions year solely to apply to TJ and with the intention of leaving again if they don't get in can't claim that their success at TJ is proof of the quality of the FCPS system as a whole, only of the quality of TJ. I don't think twice about the Asian students or their parents at my child's APS elementary school, let along make assumptions about why they're there, they're simply his friends/classmates and his parents.

Totally missing the point. Posters are speaking derisively of the Asians at TJ and claiming that they are foreigners when there is NO evidence that any sizeable number of TJ students are coming from foreign countries for TJ. I know plenty of kids that have gone to TJ from our ES and MS and they are all American but many happen to be of Asian origin. The Arlington posters can't seem to get that these kids are Americans. And that is why I'm happy to not live there.

+1000.

+2000

Stay out of FCPS. Closing TJ would be such a benefit to the entire region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to the Arlington posters on his thread who have validated our decision to not live in Arlington. We opted against Arlington in favor of Fairfax because of the lily white nature of its good schools and our feeling that, as Asian-Americans, we would be regarded as "other."

Your narrow minded views on Asians in Fairfax and at TJ are just as we suspected. We are much happier in Fairfax surrounded by a variety of hues.

No one said they aren't welcome, didn't earn their spots, etc., just that people (of any hue) who move into Fairfax just before TJ admissions year solely to apply to TJ and with the intention of leaving again if they don't get in can't claim that their success at TJ is proof of the quality of the FCPS system as a whole, only of the quality of TJ. I don't think twice about the Asian students or their parents at my child's APS elementary school, let along make assumptions about why they're there, they're simply his friends/classmates and his parents.

Totally missing the point. Posters are speaking derisively of the Asians at TJ and claiming that they are foreigners when there is NO evidence that any sizeable number of TJ students are coming from foreign countries for TJ. I know plenty of kids that have gone to TJ from our ES and MS and they are all American but many happen to be of Asian origin. The Arlington posters can't seem to get that these kids are Americans. And that is why I'm happy to not live there.

+1000.

It's more complicated than that, sorry. There is a culture of academic pressure in some Asian communities that are troubling at best, unhealthy at worst. TJ definitely attracts that kind of "Tiger Mom" outlook and has suffered from the intensity of those high expectations. (BTW, wasn't the student who faked the double admission to Stanford and Harvard a Korean student living temporarily with her mother in the US?)

This is a self-recognized issue in Korea http://news.asiaone.com/news/education/scandal-exposes-korea’s-twisted-obsession-degrees.
And leads directly to this kind of mania http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/21/pf/college/harvard-stanford-college-admissions-hoax-oped/index.html

I am sure there are many, many Asian-Americans that do NOT buy into this educational frenzy, but many do and so it becomes, unfortunately, something of a stereotype.

It's not about race, but outlook and ideology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to the Arlington posters on his thread who have validated our decision to not live in Arlington. We opted against Arlington in favor of Fairfax because of the lily white nature of its good schools and our feeling that, as Asian-Americans, we would be regarded as "other."

Your narrow minded views on Asians in Fairfax and at TJ are just as we suspected. We are much happier in Fairfax surrounded by a variety of hues.

No one said they aren't welcome, didn't earn their spots, etc., just that people (of any hue) who move into Fairfax just before TJ admissions year solely to apply to TJ and with the intention of leaving again if they don't get in can't claim that their success at TJ is proof of the quality of the FCPS system as a whole, only of the quality of TJ. I don't think twice about the Asian students or their parents at my child's APS elementary school, let along make assumptions about why they're there, they're simply his friends/classmates and his parents.

Totally missing the point. Posters are speaking derisively of the Asians at TJ and claiming that they are foreigners when there is NO evidence that any sizeable number of TJ students are coming from foreign countries for TJ. I know plenty of kids that have gone to TJ from our ES and MS and they are all American but many happen to be of Asian origin. The Arlington posters can't seem to get that these kids are Americans. And that is why I'm happy to not live there.

+1000.

It's more complicated than that, sorry. There is a culture of academic pressure in some Asian communities that are troubling at best, unhealthy at worst. TJ definitely attracts that kind of "Tiger Mom" outlook and has suffered from the intensity of those high expectations. (BTW, wasn't the student who faked the double admission to Stanford and Harvard a Korean student living temporarily with her mother in the US?)

This is a self-recognized issue in Korea http://news.asiaone.com/news/education/scandal-exposes-korea’s-twisted-obsession-degrees.
And leads directly to this kind of mania http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/21/pf/college/harvard-stanford-college-admissions-hoax-oped/index.html

I am sure there are many, many Asian-Americans that do NOT buy into this educational frenzy, but many do and so it becomes, unfortunately, something of a stereotype.

It's not about race, but outlook and ideology.

Um, OK. Yours is the mindset that drives many whites who don't want their kids in classes with Asian kids to North Arlington. You're trying to pass yourself off as academic, but it just comes off as passive-aggressive.