FCPS Has Top Schools with NMSFs, APS Lags

[Anonymous]

Do Asians not count in your world? What a strange remark. My guess is a lot of NMSF students are into places like TJ so they would be attracted to "outlier" stem schools whether in APS or FCPS.

+1 Saying FCPS has "top schools" is not correct. FCPS attracts "top students" to the TJ magnet school. There's a difference.

Also, if you're going to say FCPS has top schools, you need to use some other metrics as well . . . what does "top school" mean? Only NMSF scores? A school can be a top school if it serves any particular student well---it's a top school for that student. What else really matters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were destroyed in the last thread where you brought this up, the relative size of the two school systems is pertinent.

FCPS has 180,000 students. APS has less than 20,000.

Excluding TJ (a magnet school that pulls from all over, including Arlington) that's 289 for the 8 FCPS schools you listed compared to 57 for the two APS schools on the list.

That's one NMSF for every 623 FCPs students and one for every 350 APS student.

So, just stop. You've embarrassed yourself. Try to limit yourself to one ass-kicking a week, mkay? Thanks.

80% of TJ comes from Fairfax so there is no legitimate reason to exclude it. And, even if you did, the top neighborhood high schools in FCPS consistently outperform the Arlington schools, whether it's average SATs, the number of NMSFs, or US News ratings.

Arlington can't even punch, much less punch at its weight.

It's awful, isn't it? I guess we'll go back to debating our massive budget shortfall and whether we should scale back our AAP program or start charging students to play sports, and griping about having 30 kids in a kindergarten class.

Oh wait, that's you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, FFS. Half the applicants -- literally -- were Asian. It's self-selecting and an outlier. Besides, interest in TJ is waning -- applications were down 14% last year.

Do Asians not count in your world? What a strange remark. My guess is a lot of NMSF students are into places like TJ so they would be attracted to "outlier" stem schools whether in APS or FCPS.

Different poster, but while they count, they count with an asterisk. A lot of them move to Fairfax (especially from out of the country) just before it's time to think TJ applications, do their best to get their kid into TJ, and then if the kid doesn't get in, move out of Fairfax again. Those aren't kids who are educated in the FCPS so that their performance at TJ is evidence of FCPS being a superior school system; for purposes of this debate, they're basically ringers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were destroyed in the last thread where you brought this up, the relative size of the two school systems is pertinent.

FCPS has 180,000 students. APS has less than 20,000.

Excluding TJ (a magnet school that pulls from all over, including Arlington) that's 289 for the 8 FCPS schools you listed compared to 57 for the two APS schools on the list.

That's one NMSF for every 623 FCPs students and one for every 350 APS student.

So, just stop. You've embarrassed yourself. Try to limit yourself to one ass-kicking a week, mkay? Thanks.

80% of TJ comes from Fairfax so there is no legitimate reason to exclude it. And, even if you did, the top neighborhood high schools in FCPS consistently outperform the Arlington schools, whether it's average SATs, the number of NMSFs, or US News ratings.

Arlington can't even punch, much less punch at its weight.

Of course you exclude TJ. That's like saying Boston's the best city in America cuz of Haaahvard. TJ is, by definition, an outlier.

(Harvard isn't in Boston)

LOL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were destroyed in the last thread where you brought this up, the relative size of the two school systems is pertinent.

FCPS has 180,000 students. APS has less than 20,000.

Excluding TJ (a magnet school that pulls from all over, including Arlington) that's 289 for the 8 FCPS schools you listed compared to 57 for the two APS schools on the list.

That's one NMSF for every 623 FCPs students and one for every 350 APS student.

So, just stop. You've embarrassed yourself. Try to limit yourself to one ass-kicking a week, mkay? Thanks.

80% of TJ comes from Fairfax so there is no legitimate reason to exclude it. And, even if you did, the top neighborhood high schools in FCPS consistently outperform the Arlington schools, whether it's average SATs, the number of NMSFs, or US News ratings.

Arlington can't even punch, much less punch at its weight.

Of course you exclude TJ. That's like saying Boston's the best city in America cuz of Haaahvard. TJ is, by definition, an outlier.

You can't exclude TJ in this comparison because it's pulling so many Fairfax County students from other high schools. 80% of those FCPS students could be around 580 students from FCPS that received this recognition. It's a significant number. To be accurate you'd have to know exactly which school system each NMSF at TJ came from, but to estimate you could just take the numbers of NMSF times the percentage of TJ students from each county.

Oh, FFS. Half the applicants -- literally -- were Asian. It's self-selecting and an outlier. Besides, interest in TJ is waning -- applications were down 14% last year.

Do Asians not count in your world? What a strange remark. My guess is a lot of NMSF students are into places like TJ so they would be attracted to "outlier" stem schools whether in APS or FCPS.

Asian Americans from Fairfax "count" but the point is many kids at TJ would not be in base high schools in Fairfax if not for TJ--they wouldn't be in Fairfax (possibly even in the US) at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were destroyed in the last thread where you brought this up, the relative size of the two school systems is pertinent.

FCPS has 180,000 students. APS has less than 20,000.

Excluding TJ (a magnet school that pulls from all over, including Arlington) that's 289 for the 8 FCPS schools you listed compared to 57 for the two APS schools on the list.

That's one NMSF for every 623 FCPs students and one for every 350 APS student.

So, just stop. You've embarrassed yourself. Try to limit yourself to one ass-kicking a week, mkay? Thanks.

80% of TJ comes from Fairfax so there is no legitimate reason to exclude it. And, even if you did, the top neighborhood high schools in FCPS consistently outperform the Arlington schools, whether it's average SATs, the number of NMSFs, or US News ratings.

Arlington can't even punch, much less punch at its weight.

Of course you exclude TJ. That's like saying Boston's the best city in America cuz of Haaahvard. TJ is, by definition, an outlier.

You can't exclude TJ in this comparison because it's pulling so many Fairfax County students from other high schools. 80% of those FCPS students could be around 580 students from FCPS that received this recognition. It's a significant number. To be accurate you'd have to know exactly which school system each NMSF at TJ came from, but to estimate you could just take the numbers of NMSF times the percentage of TJ students from each county.

Oh, FFS. Half the applicants -- literally -- were Asian. It's self-selecting and an outlier. Besides, interest in TJ is waning -- applications were down 14% last year.

Do Asians not count in your world? What a strange remark. My guess is a lot of NMSF students are into places like TJ so they would be attracted to "outlier" stem schools whether in APS or FCPS.

Asian Americans from Fairfax "count" but the point is many kids at TJ would not be in base high schools in Fairfax if not for TJ--they wouldn't be in Fairfax (possibly even in the US) at all.

I hear this a lot, and genuinely want to know. How many kids attend TJ for FCPS MSs whose parents don't live in Fairfax County (or this country)? Or who did not come to this country until MS (that, came only to apply for TJ)? DC goes to Carson, which is the biggest TJ feeder, and with the TJ test being this weekend, it's all anyone is talking about right now. It's true a huge percentage of The Carson TJ applicants are Asian. But I have never met one who is not living with their parents (most in a SFH they own)-- and almost all are from Carson feeder ESs. I believe Asian families move to FCPS for AAP and TJ (instead of DC, Montgomery or PG County, or, yes, Arlington). Does anyone have numbers showing that more than a handful of kids are living here without their parents in MS just to apply to TJ? I have always though this is an urban myth. But maybe I'm just not seeing it?

[Anonymous]

NMSF status has nothing to do with the school a kid goes to. These are just smart kids: they would be NMSFs no matter where they went to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were destroyed in the last thread where you brought this up, the relative size of the two school systems is pertinent.

FCPS has 180,000 students. APS has less than 20,000.

Excluding TJ (a magnet school that pulls from all over, including Arlington) that's 289 for the 8 FCPS schools you listed compared to 57 for the two APS schools on the list.

That's one NMSF for every 623 FCPs students and one for every 350 APS student.

So, just stop. You've embarrassed yourself. Try to limit yourself to one ass-kicking a week, mkay? Thanks.

80% of TJ comes from Fairfax so there is no legitimate reason to exclude it. And, even if you did, the top neighborhood high schools in FCPS consistently outperform the Arlington schools, whether it's average SATs, the number of NMSFs, or US News ratings.

Arlington can't even punch, much less punch at its weight.

Of course you exclude TJ. That's like saying Boston's the best city in America cuz of Haaahvard. TJ is, by definition, an outlier.

You can't exclude TJ in this comparison because it's pulling so many Fairfax County students from other high schools. 80% of those FCPS students could be around 580 students from FCPS that received this recognition. It's a significant number. To be accurate you'd have to know exactly which school system each NMSF at TJ came from, but to estimate you could just take the numbers of NMSF times the percentage of TJ students from each county.

Oh, FFS. Half the applicants -- literally -- were Asian. It's self-selecting and an outlier. Besides, interest in TJ is waning -- applications were down 14% last year.

Do Asians not count in your world? What a strange remark. My guess is a lot of NMSF students are into places like TJ so they would be attracted to "outlier" stem schools whether in APS or FCPS.

Asian Americans from Fairfax "count" but the point is many kids at TJ would not be in base high schools in Fairfax if not for TJ--they wouldn't be in Fairfax (possibly even in the US) at all.

I hear this a lot, and genuinely want to know. How many kids attend TJ for FCPS MSs whose parents don't live in Fairfax County (or this country)? Or who did not come to this country until MS (that, came only to apply for TJ)? DC goes to Carson, which is the biggest TJ feeder, and with the TJ test being this weekend, it's all anyone is talking about right now. It's true a huge percentage of The Carson TJ applicants are Asian. But I have never met one who is not living with their parents (most in a SFH they own)-- and almost all are from Carson feeder ESs. I believe Asian families move to FCPS for AAP and TJ (instead of DC, Montgomery or PG County, or, yes, Arlington). Does anyone have numbers showing that more than a handful of kids are living here without their parents in MS just to apply to TJ? I have always though this is an urban myth. But maybe I'm just not seeing it?

The ones there solely for TJ probably aren't socializing with you and your kid for you to know their status. They're studying, and they're definitely not advertising that they're only there for TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were destroyed in the last thread where you brought this up, the relative size of the two school systems is pertinent.

FCPS has 180,000 students. APS has less than 20,000.

Excluding TJ (a magnet school that pulls from all over, including Arlington) that's 289 for the 8 FCPS schools you listed compared to 57 for the two APS schools on the list.

That's one NMSF for every 623 FCPs students and one for every 350 APS student.

So, just stop. You've embarrassed yourself. Try to limit yourself to one ass-kicking a week, mkay? Thanks.

80% of TJ comes from Fairfax so there is no legitimate reason to exclude it. And, even if you did, the top neighborhood high schools in FCPS consistently outperform the Arlington schools, whether it's average SATs, the number of NMSFs, or US News ratings.

Arlington can't even punch, much less punch at its weight.

Of course you exclude TJ. That's like saying Boston's the best city in America cuz of Haaahvard. TJ is, by definition, an outlier.

You can't exclude TJ in this comparison because it's pulling so many Fairfax County students from other high schools. 80% of those FCPS students could be around 580 students from FCPS that received this recognition. It's a significant number. To be accurate you'd have to know exactly which school system each NMSF at TJ came from, but to estimate you could just take the numbers of NMSF times the percentage of TJ students from each county.

Oh, FFS. Half the applicants -- literally -- were Asian. It's self-selecting and an outlier. Besides, interest in TJ is waning -- applications were down 14% last year.

Do Asians not count in your world? What a strange remark. My guess is a lot of NMSF students are into places like TJ so they would be attracted to "outlier" stem schools whether in APS or FCPS.

Asian Americans from Fairfax "count" but the point is many kids at TJ would not be in base high schools in Fairfax if not for TJ--they wouldn't be in Fairfax (possibly even in the US) at all.

I hear this a lot, and genuinely want to know. How many kids attend TJ for FCPS MSs whose parents don't live in Fairfax County (or this country)? Or who did not come to this country until MS (that, came only to apply for TJ)? DC goes to Carson, which is the biggest TJ feeder, and with the TJ test being this weekend, it's all anyone is talking about right now. It's true a huge percentage of The Carson TJ applicants are Asian. But I have never met one who is not living with their parents (most in a SFH they own)-- and almost all are from Carson feeder ESs. I believe Asian families move to FCPS for AAP and TJ (instead of DC, Montgomery or PG County, or, yes, Arlington). Does anyone have numbers showing that more than a handful of kids are living here without their parents in MS just to apply to TJ? I have always though this is an urban myth. But maybe I'm just not seeing it?

A fair number. Do you not remember this highly-publicized story? It made national news. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/harvard-stanford-admissions-hoax-becomes-international-scandal/2015/06/18/4abac970-156a-11e5-89f3-61410da94eb1_story.html

See also cram schools: https://talkinstuff.wordpress.com/2009/07/05/korean-inspired-cram-schools/

There is an entire industry IN KOREA that helps prep kids for this school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NMSF status has nothing to do with the school a kid goes to. These are just smart kids: they would be NMSFs no matter where they went to school.

The point is if they were at home in South Korea they wouldn't be taking the test at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Soooo, I guess I have to Google "NMSF"?

National Marine Sanctuary Foundation, apparently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you were destroyed in the last thread where you brought this up, the relative size of the two school systems is pertinent.

FCPS has 180,000 students. APS has less than 20,000.

Excluding TJ (a magnet school that pulls from all over, including Arlington) that's 289 for the 8 FCPS schools you listed compared to 57 for the two APS schools on the list.

That's one NMSF for every 623 FCPs students and one for every 350 APS student.

So, just stop. You've embarrassed yourself. Try to limit yourself to one ass-kicking a week, mkay? Thanks.

Bingo!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were destroyed in the last thread where you brought this up, the relative size of the two school systems is pertinent.

FCPS has 180,000 students. APS has less than 20,000.

Excluding TJ (a magnet school that pulls from all over, including Arlington) that's 289 for the 8 FCPS schools you listed compared to 57 for the two APS schools on the list.

That's one NMSF for every 623 FCPs students and one for every 350 APS student.

So, just stop. You've embarrassed yourself. Try to limit yourself to one ass-kicking a week, mkay? Thanks.

80% of TJ comes from Fairfax so there is no legitimate reason to exclude it. And, even if you did, the top neighborhood high schools in FCPS consistently outperform the Arlington schools, whether it's average SATs, the number of NMSFs, or US News ratings.

Arlington can't even punch, much less punch at its weight.

Of course you exclude TJ. That's like saying Boston's the best city in America cuz of Haaahvard. TJ is, by definition, an outlier.

You can't exclude TJ in this comparison because it's pulling so many Fairfax County students from other high schools. 80% of those FCPS students could be around 580 students from FCPS that received this recognition. It's a significant number. To be accurate you'd have to know exactly which school system each NMSF at TJ came from, but to estimate you could just take the numbers of NMSF times the percentage of TJ students from each county.

Oh, FFS. Half the applicants -- literally -- were Asian. It's self-selecting and an outlier. Besides, interest in TJ is waning -- applications were down 14% last year.

Do Asians not count in your world? What a strange remark. My guess is a lot of NMSF students are into places like TJ so they would be attracted to "outlier" stem schools whether in APS or FCPS.

Asian Americans from Fairfax "count" but the point is many kids at TJ would not be in base high schools in Fairfax if not for TJ--they wouldn't be in Fairfax (possibly even in the US) at all.

I hear this a lot, and genuinely want to know. How many kids attend TJ for FCPS MSs whose parents don't live in Fairfax County (or this country)? Or who did not come to this country until MS (that, came only to apply for TJ)? DC goes to Carson, which is the biggest TJ feeder, and with the TJ test being this weekend, it's all anyone is talking about right now. It's true a huge percentage of The Carson TJ applicants are Asian. But I have never met one who is not living with their parents (most in a SFH they own)-- and almost all are from Carson feeder ESs. I believe Asian families move to FCPS for AAP and TJ (instead of DC, Montgomery or PG County, or, yes, Arlington). Does anyone have numbers showing that more than a handful of kids are living here without their parents in MS just to apply to TJ? I have always though this is an urban myth. But maybe I'm just not seeing it?

A fair number. Do you not remember this highly-publicized story? It made national news. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/harvard-stanford-admissions-hoax-becomes-international-scandal/2015/06/18/4abac970-156a-11e5-89f3-61410da94eb1_story.html

See also cram schools: https://talkinstuff.wordpress.com/2009/07/05/korean-inspired-cram-schools/

There is an entire industry IN KOREA that helps prep kids for this school.

See, neither of these articles have anything to do with foreign TJ applicants or students or in any way imply the things you say they do. I certainly remember the TJ scandal discussed in the first last spring (and was appalled). But nothing in the article you linked mentions foreign TJ applicants or students-- it just mentions that TJ is largely Asian AMERICAN (which we all knew) and that the girl at the center of the scandal was Korean American, and that the scandal also made the Korean press. The second article DOES NOT say that there are school is Asian countries cramming Asian kids to get into TJ. It says that ONE family was so OTT that they sent their Asian American child to stay with family Korea over the summer to cram, because they felt American cram schools weren't tough enough. And that Asian style cram schools are popping up in Fairfax County for the SSAT,SAT, PSAT!, J test and other standardized tests. But these are serving Fairfax County kids, and we all know they are out there.

So once again, is there any actual evidence a significant number of TJ kids are foreign students, here without their parents, just to apply to or attend TJ? Besides "we all know this to be true," or "someone told me that someone told her that they heard of someone who..."

[Anonymous]

Thank you to the Arlington posters on his thread who have validated our decision to not live in Arlington. We opted against Arlington in favor of Fairfax because of the lily white nature of its good schools and our feeling that, as Asian-Americans, we would be regarded as "other."

Your narrow minded views on Asians in Fairfax and at TJ are just as we suspected. We are much happier in Fairfax surrounded by a variety of hues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were destroyed in the last thread where you brought this up, the relative size of the two school systems is pertinent.

FCPS has 180,000 students. APS has less than 20,000.

Excluding TJ (a magnet school that pulls from all over, including Arlington) that's 289 for the 8 FCPS schools you listed compared to 57 for the two APS schools on the list.

That's one NMSF for every 623 FCPs students and one for every 350 APS student.

So, just stop. You've embarrassed yourself. Try to limit yourself to one ass-kicking a week, mkay? Thanks.

80% of TJ comes from Fairfax so there is no legitimate reason to exclude it. And, even if you did, the top neighborhood high schools in FCPS consistently outperform the Arlington schools, whether it's average SATs, the number of NMSFs, or US News ratings.

Arlington can't even punch, much less punch at its weight.

Of course you exclude TJ. That's like saying Boston's the best city in America cuz of Haaahvard. TJ is, by definition, an outlier.

You can't exclude TJ in this comparison because it's pulling so many Fairfax County students from other high schools. 80% of those FCPS students could be around 580 students from FCPS that received this recognition. It's a significant number. To be accurate you'd have to know exactly which school system each NMSF at TJ came from, but to estimate you could just take the numbers of NMSF times the percentage of TJ students from each county.

Oh, FFS. Half the applicants -- literally -- were Asian. It's self-selecting and an outlier. Besides, interest in TJ is waning -- applications were down 14% last year.

Do Asians not count in your world? What a strange remark. My guess is a lot of NMSF students are into places like TJ so they would be attracted to "outlier" stem schools whether in APS or FCPS.

Asian Americans from Fairfax "count" but the point is many kids at TJ would not be in base high schools in Fairfax if not for TJ--they wouldn't be in Fairfax (possibly even in the US) at all.

I hear this a lot, and genuinely want to know. How many kids attend TJ for FCPS MSs whose parents don't live in Fairfax County (or this country)? Or who did not come to this country until MS (that, came only to apply for TJ)? DC goes to Carson, which is the biggest TJ feeder, and with the TJ test being this weekend, it's all anyone is talking about right now. It's true a huge percentage of The Carson TJ applicants are Asian. But I have never met one who is not living with their parents (most in a SFH they own)-- and almost all are from Carson feeder ESs. I believe Asian families move to FCPS for AAP and TJ (instead of DC, Montgomery or PG County, or, yes, Arlington). Does anyone have numbers showing that more than a handful of kids are living here without their parents in MS just to apply to TJ? I have always though this is an urban myth. But maybe I'm just not seeing it?

The ones there solely for TJ probably aren't socializing with you and your kid for you to know their status. They're studying, and they're definitely not advertising that they're only there for TJ.

I wasn't thinking of DC's friends. I was thinking about the kids in his very competitive academic extracurricular that most kids do because it supposedly looks good on the TJ application, the kids in a different STEM extracurricular he did last year, the AAP kids he does group projects with, etc. I have spent way too much of my fall at these competitions, met most his teammates parents at competitions, email with them to set up group meetings, had them over to our house and dropped DS at theirs. And "you know it must exist because you can't see it" is a terrible argument.