What is the Test for Highly Gifted Program Like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP, but that indicates to me that the kid really would have done just fine at an HGC. We can debate whether or not he missed much!

Just another example of how many bright, deserving kids get left out of the HGC and how the system is quite flawed.

This goes for anything, though. Plenty of bright, deserving kids don't get into Harvard, for example. Is that system quite flawed?

That's a ridiculous comparison. Harvard is a private university. We're talking about 9 year olds in a PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. It's definitely flawed that we pick out a few students based on their performance in K-2nd grade and some test scores and designate them as 'gifted'.

And, to be honest, many people do think our system of higher education is pretty flawed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have posted many times about the test prep classes, and I am not sock puppeting. Frankly, the idea is not to convince others to use it. The idea is to let those who want to prep know of the options - just as a public service. My kids (and my friends's kids) are already in the magnets so I do not care if someone else's kid gets in or not.

I also do not care if others think that my kids do not deserve to be in HGC/Magnets. The truth is that they are doing exceedingly well, learning and we have access to outside school opportunities (thanks to other magnet parents)that would not have been possible otherwise. Our reason to try for magnets was because of subpar home schools. That still holds true.

This is how I feel. It's helpful to know what other parents are doing, and you can decide for yourself whether or not you want to avail yourself of those options.

I actually find is so strange that someone would come on here and so vehemently oppose test prep classes for HGC/Magnet programs. What is the point? If you think they're useless, don't waste your money on them. And, if you truly believe that kids are just inherently gifted (or not gifted) and that prepping can't change that, then why bother advocating against it? You think it's a waste of time anyway. People spend money on all sorts of sh(t all the time. Why is it any of your business?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP, but that indicates to me that the kid really would have done just fine at an HGC. We can debate whether or not he missed much!

Just another example of how many bright, deserving kids get left out of the HGC and how the system is quite flawed.

This goes for anything, though. Plenty of bright, deserving kids don't get into Harvard, for example. Is that system quite flawed?

That's a ridiculous comparison. Harvard is a private university. We're talking about 9 year olds in a PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. It's definitely flawed that we pick out a few students based on their performance in K-2nd grade and some test scores and designate them as 'gifted'.
And, to be honest, many people do think our system of higher education is pretty flawed.

I agree. So therefore we should get rid of the gifted designation and the HGCs -- yes? Also, there should be no selective public universities, given that there are also plenty of bright, deserving kids who don't get into those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they eventually put the kid in the Center?

Why would they? He's a very bright kid who was outscored, even if only slightly. There have to be cut offs somewhere. He wasn't treated unfairly.

If you dig through some old posts, you will read that child eventually went to technical magnet in Middle school.
Given child's score in math, this would make sense. Also given that curriculum 2.0 hit HGCs at that time,
child probably did not miss much from not going to HGC.

Thank you for the update! The State Board sent the case back for more proceedings, and I was wondering how the whole thing turned out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have posted many times about the test prep classes, and I am not sock puppeting. Frankly, the idea is not to convince others to use it. The idea is to let those who want to prep know of the options - just as a public service. My kids (and my friends's kids) are already in the magnets so I do not care if someone else's kid gets in or not.

I also do not care if others think that my kids do not deserve to be in HGC/Magnets. The truth is that they are doing exceedingly well, learning and we have access to outside school opportunities (thanks to other magnet parents)that would not have been possible otherwise. Our reason to try for magnets was because of subpar home schools. That still holds true.

This is how I feel. It's helpful to know what other parents are doing, and you can decide for yourself whether or not you want to avail yourself of those options.

I actually find is so strange that someone would come on here and so vehemently oppose test prep classes for HGC/Magnet programs. What is the point? If you think they're useless, don't waste your money on them. And, if you truly believe that kids are just inherently gifted (or not gifted) and that prepping can't change that, then why bother advocating against it? You think it's a waste of time anyway. People spend money on all sorts of sh(t all the time. Why is it any of your business?

Because people come on here asking about it, and so others share their opinions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they eventually put the kid in the Center?

Why would they? He's a very bright kid who was outscored, even if only slightly. There have to be cut offs somewhere. He wasn't treated unfairly.

If you dig through some old posts, you will read that child eventually went to technical magnet in Middle school.
Given child's score in math, this would make sense. Also given that curriculum 2.0 hit HGCs at that time,
child probably did not miss much from not going to HGC.

Thank you for the update! The State Board sent the case back for more proceedings, and I was wondering how the whole thing turned out.

HGC is not heavily math/stem focused. It's much more of a language arts program. So, maybe that kid might not have done as well at HGC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
HGC is not heavily math/stem focused. It's much more of a language arts program. So, maybe that kid might not have done as well at HGC.

Reading/writing and STEM are not mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
HGC is not heavily math/stem focused. It's much more of a language arts program. So, maybe that kid might not have done as well at HGC.

Reading/writing and STEM are not mutually exclusive.

No, but a program that is heavily STEM focused is not the same as a more language arts based one. Hence, in MS, they start separating STEM from LA type magnets. It's also why in ES, they have a separate program for advanced math learners - compacted math. A child can be in one program but not the other. There are some kids in HGC that are not in compacted math, and several in compacted math but not in HGC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP, but that indicates to me that the kid really would have done just fine at an HGC. We can debate whether or not he missed much!

Just another example of how many bright, deserving kids get left out of the HGC and how the system is quite flawed.

This goes for anything, though. Plenty of bright, deserving kids don't get into Harvard, for example. Is that system quite flawed?

That's a ridiculous comparison. Harvard is a private university. We're talking about 9 year olds in a PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. It's definitely flawed that we pick out a few students based on their performance in K-2nd grade and some test scores and designate them as 'gifted'.
And, to be honest, many people do think our system of higher education is pretty flawed.

I agree. So therefore we should get rid of the gifted designation and the HGCs -- yes? Also, there should be no selective public universities, given that there are also plenty of bright, deserving kids who don't get into those.

Actually, I do think this would be a good idea. The gifted designation doesn't mean much to me. And, the HGCs are too limiting. I posted before that I think they should expand the program. It'd be great if ANY student had these opportunities for more 'advanced' learning, if they are willing to do the work. It's silly that we weed out kids already by 3rd grade.

I can't really comment on the university system but I do think it's flawed in the sense that many kids can't go due to financial constraints, etc. That's a whole other topic!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
HGC is not heavily math/stem focused. It's much more of a language arts program. So, maybe that kid might not have done as well at HGC.

Reading/writing and STEM are not mutually exclusive.

No, but a program that is heavily STEM focused is not the same as a more language arts based one. Hence, in MS, they start separating STEM from LA type magnets. It's also why in ES, they have a separate program for advanced math learners - compacted math. A child can be in one program but not the other. There are some kids in HGC that are not in compacted math, and several in compacted math but not in HGC.

At my child's HGC, every fourth-grader in the HGC is in compacted math, according to the teacher at back-to-school night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, I do think this would be a good idea. The gifted designation doesn't mean much to me. And, the HGCs are too limiting. I posted before that I think they should expand the program. It'd be great if ANY student had these opportunities for more 'advanced' learning, if they are willing to do the work. It's silly that we weed out kids already by 3rd grade.
I can't really comment on the university system but I do think it's flawed in the sense that many kids can't go due to financial constraints, etc. That's a whole other topic!

MCPS doesn't, really. There are plenty of students who didn't go to the HGC but got into the middle-school magnet, and there are also plenty of students who did go to the HGC but did not get into the middle-school magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
HGC is not heavily math/stem focused. It's much more of a language arts program. So, maybe that kid might not have done as well at HGC.

Reading/writing and STEM are not mutually exclusive.

No, but a program that is heavily STEM focused is not the same as a more language arts based one. Hence, in MS, they start separating STEM from LA type magnets. It's also why in ES, they have a separate program for advanced math learners - compacted math. A child can be in one program but not the other. There are some kids in HGC that are not in compacted math, and several in compacted math but not in HGC.

At my child's HGC, every fourth-grader in the HGC is in compacted math, according to the teacher at back-to-school night.

That's just the case for your particular class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
HGC is not heavily math/stem focused. It's much more of a language arts program. So, maybe that kid might not have done as well at HGC.

Reading/writing and STEM are not mutually exclusive.

No, but a program that is heavily STEM focused is not the same as a more language arts based one. Hence, in MS, they start separating STEM from LA type magnets. It's also why in ES, they have a separate program for advanced math learners - compacted math. A child can be in one program but not the other. There are some kids in HGC that are not in compacted math, and several in compacted math but not in HGC.

At my child's HGC, every fourth-grader in the HGC is in compacted math, according to the teacher at back-to-school night.

That's just the case for your particular class.

exactly! At my child's HGC, there are a couple not in compacted math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's fine if you believe that some kids are just 'smarter' and more 'gifted' than others. I might agree that some super 'gifted' kids might be. But, really, I think a good number of the smart, hard-working kids would do well at an HGC. There are just not enough spots. I think that's where we disagree. You feel that only some kids deserve to be there, but I think that if a kid is smart 'enough' and willing to do the work to keep up, he/she deserves a spot as well. And, if prepping gives the kids a small leg up by being familiar with the types of questions, then so be it.

Just so I'm clear, you're ok with a child who is intellectually in the top 3% being excluded because a child who is intellectually in the top 10% was prepped by their parents?

Yep, I'm completely fine with that. Is there really SUCH a difference between a 9 year old that is in the top 10% versus in the top 3%. Ideally, I wish MCPS would do more for all the bright kids, but I can't fix that.

If the kid prepped, it shows that he's willing to work hard for something, and that goes a long way, in my book. I tell my kids that on a weekly basis - hard work will get you so much farther than just raw talent. Works the same way for many fields.

probably. But what you say is true, in most cases, hard work will trump smarts. As I tell my HGC kid, smart + lazy is not a good combination. Smarts will only take one so far. You also have to be willing to work hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, but a program that is heavily STEM focused is not the same as a more language arts based one. Hence, in MS, they start separating STEM from LA type magnets. It's also why in ES, they have a separate program for advanced math learners - compacted math. A child can be in one program but not the other. There are some kids in HGC that are not in compacted math, and several in compacted math but not in HGC.

At my child's HGC, every fourth-grader in the HGC is in compacted math, according to the teacher at back-to-school night.

That's just the case for your particular class.

Sure. But it does suggest that it's rare for a child to be in the HGC but not be in compacted math. The converse (in compacted math, not in HGC) is obviously much more common.