What is the Test for Highly Gifted Program Like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also, the parents who say they don't prep - I find that hard to believe. Do you read to your kids at night? Play math games with them online? Help them with their homework? That's all a form of 'prepping' your kid for success in academics. Buying an extra workbook isn't really a huge deal.

When most people say "prep", that is not what they're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think they're sock puppets. Parents use the test prep services and are informing others. I'm not the PP that posted about the workbooks, but I have recommended them on other threads. Like the other PP said, it's a good idea to familiarize your kid with the types of questions. The first time I showed my kid the 'analogy' type questions, she had NO IDEA what they were all about. After seeing more, she got the concept much better.

Jeff has said that they were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I posted before about familiarizing a child with the questions. I'm partly Asian too, and agree with this poster! ALL children should be doing the in-depth, interesting projects that are being done in the HGC, instead of the often ill-conceived and poorly prepared worksheets that are the staple of other schools. It's a completely different level of intellectual and critical thinking, which all children should at least be exposed to.

The best you can do as a parent is show your child what to expect. Research has shown that intensive preparation does not increase the score significantly, but you can try that if you're not convinced, by all means! The reason parents do intensive and specific prep courses is that they think these tests are the same as the SATs, which CAN be prepared. Actually the IQ-types tests such as Cogats are designed to test cognitive ability, not knowledge, therefore you cannot score higher than your best cognitive potential, even if you practice endlessly. The question is how to reach that threshold, and a good night's sleep, hearty breakfast and focused mindset on test day does infinitely more than any amount of prepping.

This is very well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people prepare their kids for the gt test around here?

Many do.

This is not clear at all.

What is clear, however, is that many of the posts that talk about test prep for the HGC come from sock puppets who presumably make money off test prep.

I don't think they're sock puppets. Parents use the test prep services and are informing others. I'm not the PP that posted about the workbooks, but I have recommended them on other threads. Like the other PP said, it's a good idea to familiarize your kid with the types of questions. The first time I showed my kid the 'analogy' type questions, she had NO IDEA what they were all about. After seeing more, she got the concept much better.

And, as to the PPs who say you don't need to 'prep' because your kid is either 'gifted' or not. I strongly disagree. But, I'm part Asian, and we have a strong belief that ALL of our kids belong in the 'gifted program', LOL. That's a discussion for another page though. I agree that only a small percentage of kids are 'gifted', but I do believe that more kids deserve to be in a more advanced learning program than get accepted to the HGCs. But, we have the system we have, so we do what we can to help out our kids.

Also, the parents who say they don't prep - I find that hard to believe. Do you read to your kids at night? Play math games with them online? Help them with their homework? That's all a form of 'prepping' your kid for success in academics. Buying an extra workbook isn't really a huge deal.

Not the same. Prepping specifically for an exam is not the same as enriching a child's environment.

It's one thing to have a kid take one practice test to be familiar, but I've heard some parents "prepping" their kids since K with drilling, after school tutoring, and such. That may get the child into HGC, but once there, the child is on his/her own in the class, and may have a hard time keeping up in class.

HGC is specifically for those top 2 - 3%, not the top 10%. Per MCPS, the program is designed for these types of students:

- Advanced academic performance in multiple content areas.
- Curiosity and motivation to learn.
- High level of commitment, persistence, and independence.
- Eagerness to solve challenging problems or tasks for which the solution is not readily known.
- Ability to generate unique, unconventional ideas or solutions to problems.
- Ability to consider multiple perspectives and apply critical and creative reasoning skills.

To me, I don't think prepping will help the child in class with some of the above. It comes down to the way a child's brain works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do people prepare their kids for the gt test around here?

Many do.

This is not clear at all.

What is clear, however, is that many of the posts that talk about test prep for the HGC come from sock puppets who presumably make money off test prep.

I don't think they're sock puppets. Parents use the test prep services and are informing others. I'm not the PP that posted about the workbooks, but I have recommended them on other threads. Like the other PP said, it's a good idea to familiarize your kid with the types of questions. The first time I showed my kid the 'analogy' type questions, she had NO IDEA what they were all about. After seeing more, she got the concept much better.

And, as to the PPs who say you don't need to 'prep' because your kid is either 'gifted' or not. I strongly disagree. But, I'm part Asian, and we have a strong belief that ALL of our kids belong in the 'gifted program', LOL. That's a discussion for another page though. I agree that only a small percentage of kids are 'gifted', but I do believe that more kids deserve to be in a more advanced learning program than get accepted to the HGCs. But, we have the system we have, so we do what we can to help out our kids.

Also, the parents who say they don't prep - I find that hard to believe. Do you read to your kids at night? Play math games with them online? Help them with their homework? That's all a form of 'prepping' your kid for success in academics. Buying an extra workbook isn't really a huge deal.

I posted before about familiarizing a child with the questions. I'm partly Asian too, and agree with this poster! ALL children should be doing the in-depth, interesting projects that are being done in the HGC, instead of the often ill-conceived and poorly prepared worksheets that are the staple of other schools. It's a completely different level of intellectual and critical thinking, which all children should at least be exposed to.

The best you can do as a parent is show your child what to expect. Research has shown that intensive preparation does not increase the score significantly, but you can try that if you're not convinced, by all means! The reason parents do intensive and specific prep courses is that they think these tests are the same as the SATs, which CAN be prepared. Actually the IQ-types tests such as Cogats are designed to test cognitive ability, not knowledge, therefore you cannot score higher than your best cognitive potential, even if you practice endlessly. The question is how to reach that threshold, and a good night's sleep, hearty breakfast and focused mindset on test day does infinitely more than any amount of prepping.

Yes!! I wish that were true.

I hope you commented in the other thread that has the MCPS link taking comments for the HGC/Magnet programs! It's crazy that we just have these programs for only the top 2-3%. There are MANY, many more talented, hard-working kids in MCPS. We do them a disservice when we don't challenge them in a similar way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not the same. Prepping specifically for an exam is not the same as enriching a child's environment.

It's one thing to have a kid take one practice test to be familiar, but I've heard some parents "prepping" their kids since K with drilling, after school tutoring, and such. That may get the child into HGC, but once there, the child is on his/her own in the class, and may have a hard time keeping up in class.

HGC is specifically for those top 2 - 3%, not the top 10%. Per MCPS, the program is designed for these types of students:

- Advanced academic performance in multiple content areas.
- Curiosity and motivation to learn.
- High level of commitment, persistence, and independence.
- Eagerness to solve challenging problems or tasks for which the solution is not readily known.
- Ability to generate unique, unconventional ideas or solutions to problems.
- Ability to consider multiple perspectives and apply critical and creative reasoning skills.

To me, I don't think prepping will help the child in class with some of the above. It comes down to the way a child's brain works.

I have NEVER found this to be true. We know of several families who have prepped their kids with after school tutoring. All of them are doing just fine. Maybe they would have gotten in either way, but I'm sure the prepping didn't hurt. One child we know didn't get into the HGC on her own, so the mom did a tutoring service (not APlus or the other one listed above) and her child was admitted into the Magnet Middle School.

It's fine if you believe that some kids are just 'smarter' and more 'gifted' than others. I might agree that some super 'gifted' kids might be. But, really, I think a good number of the smart, hard-working kids would do well at an HGC. There are just not enough spots. I think that's where we disagree. You feel that only some kids deserve to be there, but I think that if a kid is smart 'enough' and willing to do the work to keep up, he/she deserves a spot as well. And, if prepping gives the kids a small leg up by being familiar with the types of questions, then so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they eventually put the kid in the Center?

Why would they? He's a very bright kid who was outscored, even if only slightly. There have to be cut offs somewhere. He wasn't treated unfairly.

If you dig through some old posts, you will read that child eventually went to technical magnet in Middle school.
Given child's score in math, this would make sense. Also given that curriculum 2.0 hit HGCs at that time,
child probably did not miss much from not going to HGC.

[Anonymous]

If you want to spend time and money on something that most likely has no effect on whether or not your child gets into the HGC, have at it.

[Anonymous]

My DS is in the HGC. I think Montgomery county's HGC is not so special like other people say. The students who prepped would be ok in the class. My DS says there are not much differences between his home school and HGC. He is kind of bored. I hope my view will change later...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they eventually put the kid in the Center?

Why would they? He's a very bright kid who was outscored, even if only slightly. There have to be cut offs somewhere. He wasn't treated unfairly.

If you dig through some old posts, you will read that child eventually went to technical magnet in Middle school.
Given child's score in math, this would make sense. Also given that curriculum 2.0 hit HGCs at that time,
child probably did not miss much from not going to HGC.

Not the PP, but that indicates to me that the kid really would have done just fine at an HGC. We can debate whether or not he missed much!

Just another example of how many bright, deserving kids get left out of the HGC and how the system is quite flawed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP, but that indicates to me that the kid really would have done just fine at an HGC. We can debate whether or not he missed much!

Just another example of how many bright, deserving kids get left out of the HGC and how the system is quite flawed.

This goes for anything, though. Plenty of bright, deserving kids don't get into Harvard, for example. Is that system quite flawed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It's fine if you believe that some kids are just 'smarter' and more 'gifted' than others. I might agree that some super 'gifted' kids might be. But, really, I think a good number of the smart, hard-working kids would do well at an HGC. There are just not enough spots. I think that's where we disagree. You feel that only some kids deserve to be there, but I think that if a kid is smart 'enough' and willing to do the work to keep up, he/she deserves a spot as well. And, if prepping gives the kids a small leg up by being familiar with the types of questions, then so be it.

Just so I'm clear, you're ok with a child who is intellectually in the top 3% being excluded because a child who is intellectually in the top 10% was prepped by their parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's fine if you believe that some kids are just 'smarter' and more 'gifted' than others. I might agree that some super 'gifted' kids might be. But, really, I think a good number of the smart, hard-working kids would do well at an HGC. There are just not enough spots. I think that's where we disagree. You feel that only some kids deserve to be there, but I think that if a kid is smart 'enough' and willing to do the work to keep up, he/she deserves a spot as well. And, if prepping gives the kids a small leg up by being familiar with the types of questions, then so be it.

Just so I'm clear, you're ok with a child who is intellectually in the top 3% being excluded because a child who is intellectually in the top 10% was prepped by their parents?

I'm not the PP you're responding to, but do you think that it's possible to measure a third-grader's intellectual and academic capability with such precision? I don't.

[Anonymous]

I have posted many times about the test prep classes, and I am not sock puppeting. Frankly, the idea is not to convince others to use it. The idea is to let those who want to prep know of the options - just as a public service. My kids (and my friends's kids) are already in the magnets so I do not care if someone else's kid gets in or not.

I also do not care if others think that my kids do not deserve to be in HGC/Magnets. The truth is that they are doing exceedingly well, learning and we have access to outside school opportunities (thanks to other magnet parents)that would not have been possible otherwise. Our reason to try for magnets was because of subpar home schools. That still holds true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's fine if you believe that some kids are just 'smarter' and more 'gifted' than others. I might agree that some super 'gifted' kids might be. But, really, I think a good number of the smart, hard-working kids would do well at an HGC. There are just not enough spots. I think that's where we disagree. You feel that only some kids deserve to be there, but I think that if a kid is smart 'enough' and willing to do the work to keep up, he/she deserves a spot as well. And, if prepping gives the kids a small leg up by being familiar with the types of questions, then so be it.

Just so I'm clear, you're ok with a child who is intellectually in the top 3% being excluded because a child who is intellectually in the top 10% was prepped by their parents?

Yep, I'm completely fine with that. Is there really SUCH a difference between a 9 year old that is in the top 10% versus in the top 3%. Ideally, I wish MCPS would do more for all the bright kids, but I can't fix that.

If the kid prepped, it shows that he's willing to work hard for something, and that goes a long way, in my book. I tell my kids that on a weekly basis - hard work will get you so much farther than just raw talent. Works the same way for many fields.