Family struggling with Catholicism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a Catholic (baptized, confirmed, married in the church, and still attend mass almost weekly) that also supports gay rights and the use of birth control. I sometimes remind myself that the Church is 2000 years old and reaches across the globe, so it may not be fair to expect it to be a leader in social change -- it's moves are glacial (slow but big and earth-changing). I've thought over the years about joining a Protestant church, but have never really been able to pull the trigger on leaving. I agree with what others have said, that the Catholic church has long had a tradition of reasonable minds disagreeing on certain issues. (I'm no theologian, but I think some of the saints disagreed about even fundamental things like whether animals have souls. Someone that actually knows church history and theology could probably come up with better examples.) There are certain things about Catholicism I really like, and don't really find in any of the Protestant churches -- particularly the universal nature of the church, and the way the church has evolved and incorporated different cultural traditions from different parts of the world. If you find a Protestant church that feels right to you, good for you -- no judgment here. But you may want to ask around about Catholic churches in your area, and find one that has some nice priests, then just go talk to one of the priests about your experience and your beliefs. A good priest can really be so insightful about things like this. And, to respond to a PP that asked something like who said it makes you a good Catholic to question -- I definitely have heard that in homilies from Catholic priests. If you're not struggling with your faith, it may well be sign that it's not real or important to you. Mother Theresa had well-publicized (after her death) periods of doubt, and even Jesus had his agony in the garden where he questioned God's plan for him.
If you're willing to provide your general location, some one might be willing to suggest a specific priests. In general, a Jesuit is usually good for a questioning mind...
At any rate, best of luck to you in your search.

+1 Very nicely done.

Questioning one's faith and its tenets means you are not complacent. The Catholic church does not teach that the faith is easy, and many of the saints struggled with it. There are those who do not struggle as much--some have blind faith, others have a very strong faith. None of these are things for anyone to judge except the individual concerned.

To the cynical PP who insinuated that this was a conspiracy to keep doubters in the church, of course it is possible to question to a degree that the best solution for you may be to leave the church. And that's fine too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a Catholic (baptized, confirmed, married in the church, and still attend mass almost weekly) that also supports gay rights and the use of birth control. I sometimes remind myself that the Church is 2000 years old and reaches across the globe, so it may not be fair to expect it to be a leader in social change -- it's moves are glacial (slow but big and earth-changing). I've thought over the years about joining a Protestant church, but have never really been able to pull the trigger on leaving. I agree with what others have said, that the Catholic church has long had a tradition of reasonable minds disagreeing on certain issues. (I'm no theologian, but I think some of the saints disagreed about even fundamental things like whether animals have souls. Someone that actually knows church history and theology could probably come up with better examples.) There are certain things about Catholicism I really like, and don't really find in any of the Protestant churches -- particularly the universal nature of the church, and the way the church has evolved and incorporated different cultural traditions from different parts of the world. If you find a Protestant church that feels right to you, good for you -- no judgment here. But you may want to ask around about Catholic churches in your area, and find one that has some nice priests, then just go talk to one of the priests about your experience and your beliefs. A good priest can really be so insightful about things like this. And, to respond to a PP that asked something like who said it makes you a good Catholic to question -- I definitely have heard that in homilies from Catholic priests. If you're not struggling with your faith, it may well be sign that it's not real or important to you. Mother Theresa had well-publicized (after her death) periods of doubt, and even Jesus had his agony in the garden where he questioned God's plan for him.
If you're willing to provide your general location, some one might be willing to suggest a specific priests. In general, a Jesuit is usually good for a questioning mind...
At any rate, best of luck to you in your search.

+1 Very nicely done.

Questioning one's faith and its tenets means you are not complacent. The Catholic church does not teach that the faith is easy, and many of the saints struggled with it. There are those who do not struggle as much--some have blind faith, others have a very strong faith. None of these are things for anyone to judge except the individual concerned.

To the cynical PP who insinuated that this was a conspiracy to keep doubters in the church, of course it is possible to question to a degree that the best solution for you may be to leave the church. And that's fine too.

I’ll believe that when I hear the Catholic church – or any church – actively telling its members who are firm in their faith that they ought to doubt – that only “complacent,” mediocre adherents to the faith don’t doubt and that if they want to among the “best” they should challenge their faith more diligently.

[Anonymous]

Another vote for trying the Episcopal, Lutheran or Presbyterian church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a Catholic (baptized, confirmed, married in the church, and still attend mass almost weekly) that also supports gay rights and the use of birth control. I sometimes remind myself that the Church is 2000 years old and reaches across the globe, so it may not be fair to expect it to be a leader in social change -- it's moves are glacial (slow but big and earth-changing). I've thought over the years about joining a Protestant church, but have never really been able to pull the trigger on leaving. I agree with what others have said, that the Catholic church has long had a tradition of reasonable minds disagreeing on certain issues. (I'm no theologian, but I think some of the saints disagreed about even fundamental things like whether animals have souls. Someone that actually knows church history and theology could probably come up with better examples.) There are certain things about Catholicism I really like, and don't really find in any of the Protestant churches -- particularly the universal nature of the church, and the way the church has evolved and incorporated different cultural traditions from different parts of the world. If you find a Protestant church that feels right to you, good for you -- no judgment here. But you may want to ask around about Catholic churches in your area, and find one that has some nice priests, then just go talk to one of the priests about your experience and your beliefs. A good priest can really be so insightful about things like this. And, to respond to a PP that asked something like who said it makes you a good Catholic to question -- I definitely have heard that in homilies from Catholic priests. If you're not struggling with your faith, it may well be sign that it's not real or important to you. Mother Theresa had well-publicized (after her death) periods of doubt, and even Jesus had his agony in the garden where he questioned God's plan for him.
If you're willing to provide your general location, some one might be willing to suggest a specific priests. In general, a Jesuit is usually good for a questioning mind...
At any rate, best of luck to you in your search.

+1 Very nicely done.

Questioning one's faith and its tenets means you are not complacent. The Catholic church does not teach that the faith is easy, and many of the saints struggled with it. There are those who do not struggle as much--some have blind faith, others have a very strong faith. None of these are things for anyone to judge except the individual concerned.

To the cynical PP who insinuated that this was a conspiracy to keep doubters in the church, of course it is possible to question to a degree that the best solution for you may be to leave the church. And that's fine too.

It's fine to leave the church? to pp maybe, but not to the Church - it tries to keep doubters in by insinuating that they are somehow superior (many of the saints struggled!) and keeps those with blind or strong faith in with their belief in the church teaching of internal reward or punishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a Catholic (baptized, confirmed, married in the church, and still attend mass almost weekly) that also supports gay rights and the use of birth control. I sometimes remind myself that the Church is 2000 years old and reaches across the globe, so it may not be fair to expect it to be a leader in social change -- it's moves are glacial (slow but big and earth-changing). I've thought over the years about joining a Protestant church, but have never really been able to pull the trigger on leaving. I agree with what others have said, that the Catholic church has long had a tradition of reasonable minds disagreeing on certain issues. (I'm no theologian, but I think some of the saints disagreed about even fundamental things like whether animals have souls. Someone that actually knows church history and theology could probably come up with better examples.) There are certain things about Catholicism I really like, and don't really find in any of the Protestant churches -- particularly the universal nature of the church, and the way the church has evolved and incorporated different cultural traditions from different parts of the world. If you find a Protestant church that feels right to you, good for you -- no judgment here. But you may want to ask around about Catholic churches in your area, and find one that has some nice priests, then just go talk to one of the priests about your experience and your beliefs. A good priest can really be so insightful about things like this. And, to respond to a PP that asked something like who said it makes you a good Catholic to question -- I definitely have heard that in homilies from Catholic priests. If you're not struggling with your faith, it may well be sign that it's not real or important to you. Mother Theresa had well-publicized (after her death) periods of doubt, and even Jesus had his agony in the garden where he questioned God's plan for him.
If you're willing to provide your general location, some one might be willing to suggest a specific priests. In general, a Jesuit is usually good for a questioning mind...
At any rate, best of luck to you in your search.

+1 Very nicely done.

Questioning one's faith and its tenets means you are not complacent. The Catholic church does not teach that the faith is easy, and many of the saints struggled with it. There are those who do not struggle as much--some have blind faith, others have a very strong faith. None of these are things for anyone to judge except the individual concerned.

To the cynical PP who insinuated that this was a conspiracy to keep doubters in the church, of course it is possible to question to a degree that the best solution for you may be to leave the church. And that's fine too.

I’ll believe that when I hear the Catholic church – or any church – actively telling its members who are firm in their faith that they ought to doubt – that only “complacent,” mediocre adherents to the faith don’t doubt and that if they want to among the “best” they should challenge their faith more diligently.

Well, you twisted just about everything I said.

Yes--I've heard many priests encourage people to question their faith. In many, doubting the faith from time to time can make them stronger Catholics. Some priests of course don't encourage questioning, but it's a very large church.

And I didn't say that those who don't question are always complacent. Some are, as in many other religions. But others are people of exceptionally strong faith. Nothing mediocre about that.

[Anonymous]

I am catholic. Everyone I know is. I grew up with weekly church, the bible, catholic school etc. I believe God loves everyone - I don't believe the way some people interpret the bible are quite what God wants. I don't care about anyone's sexuality. I don't care about contraceptives. I am even on the fence with abortion. Yet I would never call myself anything else than a Catholic. No, there is absolutely no contradiction there for me. When I listen into myself and try to hear what God thinks about this there is nothing but peace. Not a single doubt. I think you're fine OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

However, we all have beliefs which fly in the face of the catholic church. We are all heading to a very dear friend of the family's gay wedding in a month. Many of our friends are gay, and we believe strongly that they should have the right to marriage.

I have three teens, and I want all of them to use birth control.

In the past, my entire family and my husbands family has kind of done what I think is a pretty typical catholic "thing": we went to church, called ourselves catholic, and then on the side, held our own beliefs.

This, plus the role of women in the church, is what led me to leave the Catholic church as a young adult. I tried out a few different denominations but settled at a Methodist church that is very welcoming to gay people. I know a lot of former Catholics at our church. It feels comfortable because the service has a lot of the formality and ritual I was accustomed to in Catholicism but I like that my DD can see women being real leaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am catholic. Everyone I know is. I grew up with weekly church, the bible, catholic school etc. I believe God loves everyone - I don't believe the way some people interpret the bible are quite what God wants. I don't care about anyone's sexuality. I don't care about contraceptives. I am even on the fence with abortion. Yet I would never call myself anything else than a Catholic. No, there is absolutely no contradiction there for me. When I listen into myself and try to hear what God thinks about this there is nothing but peace. Not a single doubt. I think you're fine OP.

This is a very individualist view. I'm glad you're at peace with it, pp. Seriously, but personally feeling Catholic is not being Catholic in the eyes of the church. I'm not saying that pejoratively or as an attempt to challenge you. I'm actually happy to see that intelligent thoughtful Catholics have evolved from the strict church of the recent past. Perhaps the church will eventually evolve in response.

[Anonymous]

Every once in a while our minister asks those raised Catholic to raise their hands. Half of a very large congregation raises their hands. It is a Methodist church. DH was raised Catholic and liberal and has found the Methodists who lean more liberal to be a welcoming place.

If you miss the mass ritual then a Methodist service could be difficult. It's interesting, I find the Catholic mass to be quite shallow and repetitive and placed the priest between the congregant and God, despite it being centuries old - at least during the years I went in my 20s - some 20 years ago. I guess it all depends on what you grow up with.

Unitarians are very inclusive of other religious traditions FWIW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a Catholic (baptized, confirmed, married in the church, and still attend mass almost weekly) that also supports gay rights and the use of birth control. I sometimes remind myself that the Church is 2000 years old and reaches across the globe, so it may not be fair to expect it to be a leader in social change -- it's moves are glacial (slow but big and earth-changing). I've thought over the years about joining a Protestant church, but have never really been able to pull the trigger on leaving. I agree with what others have said, that the Catholic church has long had a tradition of reasonable minds disagreeing on certain issues. (I'm no theologian, but I think some of the saints disagreed about even fundamental things like whether animals have souls. Someone that actually knows church history and theology could probably come up with better examples.) There are certain things about Catholicism I really like, and don't really find in any of the Protestant churches -- particularly the universal nature of the church, and the way the church has evolved and incorporated different cultural traditions from different parts of the world. If you find a Protestant church that feels right to you, good for you -- no judgment here. But you may want to ask around about Catholic churches in your area, and find one that has some nice priests, then just go talk to one of the priests about your experience and your beliefs. A good priest can really be so insightful about things like this. And, to respond to a PP that asked something like who said it makes you a good Catholic to question -- I definitely have heard that in homilies from Catholic priests. If you're not struggling with your faith, it may well be sign that it's not real or important to you. Mother Theresa had well-publicized (after her death) periods of doubt, and even Jesus had his agony in the garden where he questioned God's plan for him.
If you're willing to provide your general location, some one might be willing to suggest a specific priests. In general, a Jesuit is usually good for a questioning mind...
At any rate, best of luck to you in your search.

+1 Very nicely done.

Questioning one's faith and its tenets means you are not complacent. The Catholic church does not teach that the faith is easy, and many of the saints struggled with it. There are those who do not struggle as much--some have blind faith, others have a very strong faith. None of these are things for anyone to judge except the individual concerned.

To the cynical PP who insinuated that this was a conspiracy to keep doubters in the church, of course it is possible to question to a degree that the best solution for you may be to leave the church. And that's fine too.

I’ll believe that when I hear the Catholic church – or any church – actively telling its members who are firm in their faith that they ought to doubt – that only “complacent,” mediocre adherents to the faith don’t doubt and that if they want to among the “best” they should challenge their faith more diligently.

Well, you twisted just about everything I said.

Yes--I've heard many priests encourage people to question their faith. In many, doubting the faith from time to time can make them stronger Catholics. Some priests of course don't encourage questioning, but it's a very large church.

And I didn't say that those who don't question are always complacent. Some are, as in many other religions. But others are people of exceptionally strong faith. Nothing mediocre about that.

I didn't twist a thing -- perhaps made it easer to see how your thinking comes across to people not in the faith. I didn't say non-questioners were "always" complacent either.

It's easy to see, reading your own words, that doubters were being presented as superior to non-doubters. I think doubters are thinking straighter. Really, so much about religion is hard to believe, once you really start thinking about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every once in a while our minister asks those raised Catholic to raise their hands. Half of a very large congregation raises their hands. It is a Methodist church. DH was raised Catholic and liberal and has found the Methodists who lean more liberal to be a welcoming place.

If you miss the mass ritual then a Methodist service could be difficult. It's interesting, I find the Catholic mass to be quite shallow and repetitive and placed the priest between the congregant and God, despite it being centuries old - at least during the years I went in my 20s - some 20 years ago. I guess it all depends on what you grow up with.

Unitarians are very inclusive of other religious traditions FWIW.

I find it very unusual, possibly weird, that a minister asks the congregation who was raised in a specific different religion. What is the minister trying to accomplish through this exercise?

It is jarring to hear the Catholic mass described as shallow. Calling the consecration shallow seems....well, shallow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every once in a while our minister asks those raised Catholic to raise their hands. Half of a very large congregation raises their hands. It is a Methodist church. DH was raised Catholic and liberal and has found the Methodists who lean more liberal to be a welcoming place.

If you miss the mass ritual then a Methodist service could be difficult. It's interesting, I find the Catholic mass to be quite shallow and repetitive and placed the priest between the congregant and God, despite it being centuries old - at least during the years I went in my 20s - some 20 years ago. I guess it all depends on what you grow up with.

Unitarians are very inclusive of other religious traditions FWIW.

I find it very unusual, possibly weird, that a minister asks the congregation who was raised in a specific different religion. What is the minister trying to accomplish through this exercise?

It is jarring to hear the Catholic mass described as shallow. Calling the consecration shallow seems....well, shallow.

The way some priests say the mass, like they're bored stuff, can be pretty shallow.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Another vote for trying the Episcopal, Lutheran or Presbyterian church.


I would suggest Anglo-Catholic, instead. The Episcopal church is a dying church and stands for very little anymore. Lutheran has the liturgy but everything else is strongly protestant. Presbyterian is way too liberal and has no liturgy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic here - Baptized, Communion, Confirmed and married by the Catholic Church.

I am pro choice, believe that gays should have the right to marriage and believe in birth control. My feeling is this, those are someone else's choices that they have to make for themselves. They are not mine to make for them. I personally would not have an abortion and I am gay and if I was I personally would not get married. Because I would not personally make those decisions for myself, I still feel comfortable going to a Catholic Church. I also let the church for a while. I came back when I needed God the most. I think believing in God is more than the religion you chose to belong to. Go to church and know that your relationship with God is between you and your God.

This is me. I do think abortion is sinful and the Catholic Church has a right not to marry homosexuals, but I also believe those things should be legal since my Catholicism shouldn't have bearing on what is and is not legal.

The Catholic church isn't asking for gay marriage to be against the law, is it? They just don't want to perform them in their churches (and no-one is forcing them to). They do think abortion should be illegal (as well as being sinful) but the church can't control the laws -- anymore, since the separation of church and state in most countries.

The Church most definitely opposes legalizing gay marriage. We hear about this all the time in the diocese of Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am catholic and disagree with some of the social teachings. I do strongly believe in the core beliefs of the trinity, mass, and Eucharist. I think those are some of the beliefs that truly make me Catholic. I doubt my priest is concerned about my birth control use or my acceptance of others lifestyles.

Do you take communion? How do you reconcile popping birth control while taking communion?!?

Serious question. I mean, if you respect the faith, you respect the faith. I can understand going to mass, but I cannot understand taking communion while being in mortal sin.

Now, I'm lapsed, and I am going straight to hell if all these teachings are true, but then again, I'm not taking communion!