Scary thoughts about kids at college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So far someone has blamed the parents for cajoling for As. Someone else blamed the parents for being too strict in general, or too lax. The article doesn't support any of these conclusions.

Maybe nobody is to blame. Maybe she suffered from major depression and/or anxiety. In many cases depression and/or anxiety are genetic. Or, sometimes the pressure comes from the kid herself (the article says dad supported the Lehigh option but she chose Penn herself).

FWIW, Lehigh might have been the answer, and then again it might have not. I'm from the Allentown-Bethlehem area, and Lehigh has quite a reputation for frats. A female friend of mine was fairly unhappy at Lehigh.

We will never know.

While I agree with your basic premise, you should read carefully what the posters said. One poster said in general related to his/her experience of parents who push for As, others spoke in general about parents being lax or strict. But no one accused the parents of the young woman who committed suicide.

Should we misinterpret your comment that if she attended Lehigh she would have been unhappy because you have a friend who was unhappy. Please don't insinuate things that aren't there.

OK, point taken. Although I feel like some of the posts that start out, "That is why I did XYZ...," or "This reminds my of the parents pushing for HYP" are insinuating something about what they think happened/caused it. That's what I inferred from their posts, anyway. But we can differ on that.

My main point was, maybe it was depression that derived from genetic inheritance or from pushing herself to impossibly high standards. I also posted above asking what a parent should do about this, especially when she was apparently good at hiding her issues. Force her to go to Lehigh? Send an apparently happy kid into therapy? That's what has me shaking my head at the end of the day, and that's what I find so sad about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So far someone has blamed the parents for cajoling for As. Someone else blamed the parents for being too strict in general, or too lax. The article doesn't support any of these conclusions.

Maybe nobody is to blame. Maybe she suffered from major depression and/or anxiety. In many cases depression and/or anxiety are genetic. Or, sometimes the pressure comes from the kid herself (the article says dad supported the Lehigh option but she chose Penn herself).

FWIW, Lehigh might have been the answer, and then again it might have not. I'm from the Allentown-Bethlehem area, and Lehigh has quite a reputation for frats. A female friend of mine was fairly unhappy at Lehigh.

We will never know.

While I agree with your basic premise, you should read carefully what the posters said. One poster said in general related to his/her experience of parents who push for As, others spoke in general about parents being lax or strict. But no one accused the parents of the young woman who committed suicide.

Should we misinterpret your comment that if she attended Lehigh she would have been unhappy because you have a friend who was unhappy. Please don't insinuate things that aren't there.

but the kids from their experience did not commit suicides! not to mention - they, too, spoke from their experience so lehigh poster's experience has as much weight as theirs.

somebody knew some kids who partied hard, did drugs, were promiscuous or unhappy, and they had too strict, or uninvolved parents, and somehow there are lessons there to be learned on suicide prevention. despite the fact that none of those kids actually committed suicide and that none of the kids who actually did, fit that profile.

the fact of the matter is, suicide is very unpredictable. some people (parents) here want to feel like it could not possibly happen to them because of they way they parent. this is not true. as this and some other stories show, it could. let's just pray it doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Richard Cory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think our cluelessness, despite our otherwise best efforts, is exactly the "scary" about this story.

I agree. And yet, the article mentions how dad was open to her going to Lehigh.

Would a more perceptive parent have forced her to go to Lehigh? She was the one who chose Penn over Lehigh, and she seemed to be pushing herself against her own yardstick of perfection while giving everyone the impression that she was happy and well-adjusted. I don't see an easy way a parent could have helped her. That's what's so sad, to me.

As a parent of an adult child (here the college freshman) I don't think you could do more than make sure the kid knows the nonIvy school is still a fine choice should the kid consider transferring. Sounds like the dad did that. Incomprehensible and so so sad that the girl felt she had no choice but to jump.

[Anonymous]

There is no other way to interpret "this is why I did... Xyz" comment but "I know to prevent this, I did it and it can't happen to me".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no other way to interpret "this is why I did... Xyz" comment but "I know to prevent this, I did it and it can't happen to me".

Finally got that crack fixed in your crystal ball, I see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no other way to interpret "this is why I did... Xyz" comment but "I know to prevent this, I did it and it can't happen to me".

You mean there's no other reasonable interpretation. Loons aside, I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no other way to interpret "this is why I did... Xyz" comment but "I know to prevent this, I did it and it can't happen to me".

You mean there's no other reasonable interpretation. Loons aside, I agree.

Before I agree or disagree, could you tell me which poster said 'I know how to prevent this and it can't happen to me?'

[Anonymous]

This is all very complicated and I think parents look to what they think is "the" cause to reassure themselves it won't happen to their child. But the children of great, supportive, involved parents commit suicide. Its complicate. Some thoughts:

1. There have always been people in this age range with serious mental illness. I do think its worse now as the atmosphere to achieve, achieve, achieve has been cranked up. But ultimately there will always be some young adults who struggle with this.

2. IMO UPenn has a particularly strong competitive atmosphere and a coldness. My DC chose not to apply for that reason. The reputation is that it is full of "ore-professional" students, students gunning for law or medical school and most especially business. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, I went to law school, but the sheer concentration is unhealthy.

3. No one has commented on the transition to college athletics but I think that is a big part of it. I was a high school athlete who loved my sport. My teammates were like my sisters and I was never happier than when we were out there together, competing. I was heavily recruited by colleges, including UPenn (I went elsewhere). When I got to college I found the atmosphere around sports to be much different. More was expected of me. the team was cliquish and I had difficulty finding friends. The level of competition was higher but also less fun. I went from LOVING my sport to hating it and quit after one year. In retrospect, it was the best decision I could make, though it was difficult. Its really hard to change course when you've been recruited. For the woman in this article, she was so invested and I can imagine that the change was particularly hard felt.

4. Finally a lot of schools create disincentives for students seeking help. They kick them out of school if they are suicidal. I don't know about UPenn's approach, but the student may have felt she couldn't be completely honest with them.

[Anonymous]

I meant Pre-professional students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is all very complicated and I think parents look to what they think is "the" cause to reassure themselves it won't happen to their child. But the children of great, supportive, involved parents commit suicide. Its complicate. Some thoughts:

1. There have always been people in this age range with serious mental illness. I do think its worse now as the atmosphere to achieve, achieve, achieve has been cranked up. But ultimately there will always be some young adults who struggle with this.

2. IMO UPenn has a particularly strong competitive atmosphere and a coldness. My DC chose not to apply for that reason. The reputation is that it is full of "ore-professional" students, students gunning for law or medical school and most especially business. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, I went to law school, but the sheer concentration is unhealthy.

3. No one has commented on the transition to college athletics but I think that is a big part of it. I was a high school athlete who loved my sport. My teammates were like my sisters and I was never happier than when we were out there together, competing. I was heavily recruited by colleges, including UPenn (I went elsewhere). When I got to college I found the atmosphere around sports to be much different. More was expected of me. the team was cliquish and I had difficulty finding friends. The level of competition was higher but also less fun. I went from LOVING my sport to hating it and quit after one year. In retrospect, it was the best decision I could make, though it was difficult. Its really hard to change course when you've been recruited. For the woman in this article, she was so invested and I can imagine that the change was particularly hard felt.

4. Finally a lot of schools create disincentives for students seeking help. They kick them out of school if they are suicidal. I don't know about UPenn's approach, but the student may have felt she couldn't be completely honest with them.

The sport angle is interesting. also, it looks like she preferred soccer to track and would have played soccer at Lehigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all very complicated and I think parents look to what they think is "the" cause to reassure themselves it won't happen to their child. But the children of great, supportive, involved parents commit suicide. Its complicate. Some thoughts:

1. There have always been people in this age range with serious mental illness. I do think its worse now as the atmosphere to achieve, achieve, achieve has been cranked up. But ultimately there will always be some young adults who struggle with this.

2. IMO UPenn has a particularly strong competitive atmosphere and a coldness. My DC chose not to apply for that reason. The reputation is that it is full of "ore-professional" students, students gunning for law or medical school and most especially business. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, I went to law school, but the sheer concentration is unhealthy.

3. No one has commented on the transition to college athletics but I think that is a big part of it. I was a high school athlete who loved my sport. My teammates were like my sisters and I was never happier than when we were out there together, competing. I was heavily recruited by colleges, including UPenn (I went elsewhere). When I got to college I found the atmosphere around sports to be much different. More was expected of me. the team was cliquish and I had difficulty finding friends. The level of competition was higher but also less fun. I went from LOVING my sport to hating it and quit after one year. In retrospect, it was the best decision I could make, though it was difficult. Its really hard to change course when you've been recruited. For the woman in this article, she was so invested and I can imagine that the change was particularly hard felt.

4. Finally a lot of schools create disincentives for students seeking help. They kick them out of school if they are suicidal. I don't know about UPenn's approach, but the student may have felt she couldn't be completely honest with them.

The sport angle is interesting. also, it looks like she preferred soccer to track and would have played soccer at Lehigh.

Interesting. Was this at a DI, DII, or DIII school? Do you think that part matters? Did any of your HS friends who went on to play college sports experience the same things you did?

[Anonymous]

A friend's daughter was recruited by an Ivy to play soccer, quit the team after two years. She did not care for the coach and stopped enjoying the game. She transferred to a non-Ivy. Another friend's child was recruited by a SLAC to play baseball and doesn't like the coach and he's not happy, not sure what he's going to do. It's very coach-driven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A friend's daughter was recruited by an Ivy to play soccer, quit the team after two years. She did not care for the coach and stopped enjoying the game. She transferred to a non-Ivy. Another friend's child was recruited by a SLAC to play baseball and doesn't like the coach and he's not happy, not sure what he's going to do. It's very coach-driven.

The good thing about SLACs (at least the D3 ones, someplace like Davidson may be different) and Ivies is that they don't give athletic scholarships so if you want to stop playing you can. You aren't forgoing your scholarship and they aren't going to rescind admission.

[Anonymous]

Right and that's good but some students choose a school based on the recruitment, they sometimes get admitted where they wouldn't. So it's a different problem, getting there an not liking the team/coach/practice schedule.