Do you think that the Mundo Verde's demographics will change because of the move?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really tough to call this one. My money is on:

1) a lot of current families will stay through the move, because they like the school and have grown attached to it. Some small number will leave due to the move (they will either lottery into another charter closer to home, lottery into DCPS, or go DCPS if they have a good IB option).

2) for new families entering PK3, a lot of Mt Pleasant families will choose Bancroft or DC bilingual instead. (Same goes for Creative Minds, when it moves next year)

3) CoHi, Crestwood, Petworth, AdMo families may continue to choose MV or may begin to prefer IB options. It depends how they evaluate their IB options and also DC bilingual or LAMB vs MV. I suspect Powell will get a lot of attention, maybe Tubman too? HD Cooke also seems to be getting more interest.

4) WOTP families will choose MV less and less - that is a long and bad commute.

5) latino population will drop steadily at MV because DC is only 10% latino whereas CoHi, Mt Pleasant is 25% latino (approx?). MV is moving from the single highest concentration of latinos in the District to one of the lowest. Latino population of Bloomingdale was zero in the 2010 census, I believe. I know that's just one of the neighborhoods.

6) too close to call on white versus African American demographics or wealthy vs FARMS because both MV's old location and its new location have lots of both (black and white, rich and poor)

My main assumption underpinning all of this is that location does matter to a lot of parents for ES but it's not absolute. So overall, over time, I expect gradually fewer Crestwood/Mt Pleasant/Co Hi parents and gradually more from near the new location.

Bloomingdale demographics have changed quite dramatically since the 2010 census even though it's only been 4 years. I personally know several Latino families in Bloomingdale so it's certainly not "zero".

I'm the PP to whom you're responding. Sure, fair point, not zero, but not very many at all, and many fewer than Mt Pleasant / Columbia Heights / Petworth / Adams Morgan in both absolute and relative terms.

This thread has unfortunately descended into a flame-war, which is too bad, because the title of the thread remains an interesting question. Mundo Verde is a bilingual program. It is currently 45% hispanic. What will happen to that number following the move?

I predict that number will steadily drop over the years, unless MV institutes some kind of dual lottery like Oyster (can charters do that?).

When they were situated right in the middle of the largest concentration of latinos in the District, they went to 45%. Now that they are moving to one of the lower concentrations, you would expect that number to fall, because there is a limit to how far most families can travel for preschool and elementary school, and the overall hispanic percentage of the DC school population is around 13%. There seem to be many on DCUM who are willing and able to drive long distances for PK3. I would be curious to see how often that is observed among latino families in the district.

Yes, I am using hispanic and latino interchangeably here which is wrong from a census perspective but I think they overlap reasonably well in DC. Apologies to all you non-latino hispanics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes! Please OP, provide your name so all MV families can avoid you. You sound like such a horrible person.

On another note, just because someone is non FARM, doesn't mean they are high SES. Many working class families that don't qualify for FARM.

While I share the collective discomfort with the OP's apparent desire to avoid low income kids, I do feel that statements like the one above amount to bullying. This is an anonymous forum and who knows what OP is like in person, or what she really meant (the desire to send her kid to a school with kids in her neighborhood is not unreasonable, but the concern misplaced if she's sending the child to a highly sought after school in a different part of town) - it's mean spirited to imply that you wish to work out who she is in real life and avoid her. If you're really an MV parent I hope you are able to be open minded about new parents you meet and not judge them based on what you think someone who might go to your school might or might not have written and what they might or might not have meant by it.

Easier said than done. Too bad she said they're coming from private. It's going to be obvious who she is.

Really? I don't think she even identified which grade. These kind of witch hunts are just plain mean.

It's not a witch hunt. I'm poor and live east of Georgia Avenue, so when some former private school kid from Columbia Heights, etc doesn't want to come to our birthday party I will think, huh, maybe that's the lady who doesn't want to be around poor people. Noted. That's about it. I don't know why people think that you can come on an anonymous board and write about your concerns about "demographics" and not think that people are reading and paying attention.

I'm also "poor" and live east of Georgia Avenue and while I do agree that there are some obnoxious parts of OPs post, I don't agree with making assumptions about who it might be for a number of reasons, but not least because another poor mother with a former private school kid from Mount Pleasant, Columbia Heights or that general vicinity (she wasn't very specific) might be unfairly targeted. (Also, OP may well have changed some details to be more anonymous - I often do).

OP here, of course I changed some details. I think the assumptions and conclusions folks have jumped to here are laughable and sad (sad because people have displayed real insecurities--I never wrote about not wanting to play with "poor" people--this is ridiculous) at the same time when you consider the original question. What was serious question has become now pure entertainment for me. So here's my info: My name is Julie Lawrence, I have a DC entering K--she is coming from Beauvoir, and we live in Mt Pleasant, and an incoming PK-3 kid. Now go on your witch hunt if you believe that. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

OP sounds like a real peach. Instead of focusing on the title of her thread which is a good question, she goes further and manages to offend just about everyone b/c her real problem is obviously not the change in demographics due to location but HER "terrible" commute to MV's new location. What an entitled twit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really tough to call this one. My money is on:

1) a lot of current families will stay through the move, because they like the school and have grown attached to it. Some small number will leave due to the move (they will either lottery into another charter closer to home, lottery into DCPS, or go DCPS if they have a good IB option).

2) for new families entering PK3, a lot of Mt Pleasant families will choose Bancroft or DC bilingual instead. (Same goes for Creative Minds, when it moves next year)

3) CoHi, Crestwood, Petworth, AdMo families may continue to choose MV or may begin to prefer IB options. It depends how they evaluate their IB options and also DC bilingual or LAMB vs MV. I suspect Powell will get a lot of attention, maybe Tubman too? HD Cooke also seems to be getting more interest.

4) WOTP families will choose MV less and less - that is a long and bad commute.

5) latino population will drop steadily at MV because DC is only 10% latino whereas CoHi, Mt Pleasant is 25% latino (approx?). MV is moving from the single highest concentration of latinos in the District to one of the lowest. Latino population of Bloomingdale was zero in the 2010 census, I believe. I know that's just one of the neighborhoods.

6) too close to call on white versus African American demographics or wealthy vs FARMS because both MV's old location and its new location have lots of both (black and white, rich and poor)

My main assumption underpinning all of this is that location does matter to a lot of parents for ES but it's not absolute. So overall, over time, I expect gradually fewer Crestwood/Mt Pleasant/Co Hi parents and gradually more from near the new location.

Bloomingdale demographics have changed quite dramatically since the 2010 census even though it's only been 4 years. I personally know several Latino families in Bloomingdale so it's certainly not "zero".

I'm the PP to whom you're responding. Sure, fair point, not zero, but not very many at all, and many fewer than Mt Pleasant / Columbia Heights / Petworth / Adams Morgan in both absolute and relative terms.

This thread has unfortunately descended into a flame-war, which is too bad, because the title of the thread remains an interesting question. Mundo Verde is a bilingual program. It is currently 45% hispanic. What will happen to that number following the move?

I predict that number will steadily drop over the years, unless MV institutes some kind of dual lottery like Oyster (can charters do that?).

When they were situated right in the middle of the largest concentration of latinos in the District, they went to 45%. Now that they are moving to one of the lower concentrations, you would expect that number to fall, because there is a limit to how far most families can travel for preschool and elementary school, and the overall hispanic percentage of the DC school population is around 13%. There seem to be many on DCUM who are willing and able to drive long distances for PK3. I would be curious to see how often that is observed among latino families in the district.

Yes, I am using hispanic and latino interchangeably here which is wrong from a census perspective but I think they overlap reasonably well in DC. Apologies to all you non-latino hispanics.

OP here, sigh, finally someone has gotten back to the central question, which is, what does the move mean for the demographics? Anyway, I am signing off here because I am sure my posting will only generate more over the top assumptions that will have nothing to do with the first question. I am done being entertained for the day.

[Anonymous]

Ha, bravo, OP. You win DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really tough to call this one. My money is on:

Bloomingdale demographics have changed quite dramatically since the 2010 census even though it's only been 4 years. I personally know several Latino families in Bloomingdale so it's certainly not "zero".

I'm the PP to whom you're responding. Sure, fair point, not zero, but not very many at all, and many fewer than Mt Pleasant / Columbia Heights / Petworth / Adams Morgan in both absolute and relative terms.

This thread has unfortunately descended into a flame-war, which is too bad, because the title of the thread remains an interesting question. Mundo Verde is a bilingual program. It is currently 45% hispanic. What will happen to that number following the move?

I predict that number will steadily drop over the years, unless MV institutes some kind of dual lottery like Oyster (can charters do that?).

When they were situated right in the middle of the largest concentration of latinos in the District, they went to 45%. Now that they are moving to one of the lower concentrations, you would expect that number to fall, because there is a limit to how far most families can travel for preschool and elementary school, and the overall hispanic percentage of the DC school population is around 13%. There seem to be many on DCUM who are willing and able to drive long distances for PK3. I would be curious to see how often that is observed among latino families in the district.

Yes, I am using hispanic and latino interchangeably here which is wrong from a census perspective but I think they overlap reasonably well in DC. Apologies to all you non-latino hispanics.

OP here, sigh, finally someone has gotten back to the central question, which is, what does the move mean for the demographics? Anyway, I am signing off here because I am sure my posting will only generate more over the top assumptions that will have nothing to do with the first question. I am done being entertained for the day.

I'[m PP.

First off, I thought that people were being unnecessarily mean, so bravo for putting your name down and calling the bluff of all the anonymous detractors who were insulting you. You indeed win DCUM today.

Second, yes, I think the move presents a real challenge, and I suspect that one reason why most PPs have ignored my analysis above is that this is an uncomfortable truth, about MV and about dual-language charters in general.

Currently under the charter laws the charter schools have to hold blind city-wide lotteries. They are not allowed to control for income or race or language dominance, as far as I know. This issue has come up regarding the low FARMs percentage at Creative Minds.

For MV, it's not FARMs that is most important, it's the hispanic percentage, because it's really hard to sustain a quality bilingual program when you don't have a critical mass of spanish-speaking families attending. Oyster recognized this years ago, saw the writing on the wall in terms of Woodley Park/Kalorama demographics, and instituted a dual lottery. Meanwhile some DCPS schools mentioned in this thread, Bancroft for example, have a large latino IB population and therefore don't need a dual lottery. I believe Powell and Marie Reed also have a decent IB percentage? Less sure about Marie Reed, maybe someone there can comment.

I am interested to see what happens and how MV responds to it, but would we be surprised if we saw the hispanic percentage drop below 30% for the incoming PK3 classes, given the new location? I believe Cleveland is the closest dual language DCPS to the new MV location? Cleveland has 30% hispanic.

Now, on the other hand, LAMB is maintaining a decent percentage so far, and neither LAMB location is an especially hispanic neighborhood.

We'll see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


OP here, sigh, finally someone has gotten back to the central question, which is, what does the move mean for the demographics? Anyway, I am signing off here because I am sure my posting will only generate more over the top assumptions that will have nothing to do with the first question. I am done being entertained for the day.

If you are concerned about the geographic location of the students at the school, the levels of SES and FARM rates aren't necessarily related. There are many, many students living living below the poverty line in Columbia Heights and nearby, primarily because of the subsidized housing in the area. If you care to find out more about the geographic location of the existing student body, the PCSB has maps for every charter school of where students live:

http://issuu.com/pcsb/docs/2014_student_location_maps

You may find some things surprising there. For instance, LAMB has more students living west of Rock Creek Park than Mundo Verde (15 vs. 6 if I count the dots correctly).

We all make assumptions based on our own experience. I think the reason some people got riled up is because your original post appeared to contain a lot of assumptions on your part. And FYI, the Latino population in DC has been shifting north and east for a while, to the point where Ward 4 now has the same concentration of Latino's as Ward 1. This is very evident if you ever ride the 50s buses up 14th Street north of Columbia Heights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


OP here, sigh, finally someone has gotten back to the central question, which is, what does the move mean for the demographics? Anyway, I am signing off here because I am sure my posting will only generate more over the top assumptions that will have nothing to do with the first question. I am done being entertained for the day.

If you are concerned about the geographic location of the students at the school, the levels of SES and FARM rates aren't necessarily related. There are many, many students living living below the poverty line in Columbia Heights and nearby, primarily because of the subsidized housing in the area. If you care to find out more about the geographic location of the existing student body, the PCSB has maps for every charter school of where students live:

http://issuu.com/pcsb/docs/2014_student_location_maps

You may find some things surprising there. For instance, LAMB has more students living west of Rock Creek Park than Mundo Verde (15 vs. 6 if I count the dots correctly).

We all make assumptions based on our own experience. I think the reason some people got riled up is because your original post appeared to contain a lot of assumptions on your part. And FYI, the Latino population in DC has been shifting north and east for a while, to the point where Ward 4 now has the same concentration of Latino's as Ward 1. This is very evident if you ever ride the 50s buses up 14th Street north of Columbia Heights.

Great resource - thanks for posting.

It's interesting to see that MV draws most students from within walking distance of its (old) location, which is also true for DC Bilingual but not at all true for LAMB. Could this be because of the two LAMB locations? Or maybe more likely the relative lack of population density around both LAMB locations compared with the MV/DCB locations, which is the most densely populated area of the whole city? Or LAMB just has more city-wide appeal? Up until now I had assumed that LAMB and MV city-wide appeal was about equal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


OP here, sigh, finally someone has gotten back to the central question, which is, what does the move mean for the demographics? Anyway, I am signing off here because I am sure my posting will only generate more over the top assumptions that will have nothing to do with the first question. I am done being entertained for the day.

If you are concerned about the geographic location of the students at the school, the levels of SES and FARM rates aren't necessarily related. There are many, many students living living below the poverty line in Columbia Heights and nearby, primarily because of the subsidized housing in the area. If you care to find out more about the geographic location of the existing student body, the PCSB has maps for every charter school of where students live:

http://issuu.com/pcsb/docs/2014_student_location_maps

You may find some things surprising there. For instance, LAMB has more students living west of Rock Creek Park than Mundo Verde (15 vs. 6 if I count the dots correctly).

We all make assumptions based on our own experience. I think the reason some people got riled up is because your original post appeared to contain a lot of assumptions on your part. And FYI, the Latino population in DC has been shifting north and east for a while, to the point where Ward 4 now has the same concentration of Latino's as Ward 1. This is very evident if you ever ride the 50s buses up 14th Street north of Columbia Heights.

Great resource - thanks for posting.

It's interesting to see that MV draws most students from within walking distance of its (old) location, which is also true for DC Bilingual but not at all true for LAMB. Could this be because of the two LAMB locations? Or maybe more likely the relative lack of population density around both LAMB locations compared with the MV/DCB locations, which is the most densely populated area of the whole city? Or LAMB just has more city-wide appeal? Up until now I had assumed that LAMB and MV city-wide appeal was about equal.

Many of the newer charters have more local populations because the first year or two before they become HRCS people sign on who are close by. LAMB is a known school that is been around for almost 10 years, which is why it's really reflecting the city wide mission.

Check back in 5 years and we will see what the population looks like.

[Anonymous]

It really depends on availability of transportation, doesn't it? There are buses that go through heavily Latino Columbia Heights straight up 14th Street to Lamb. And that school's been around a lot longer than MV, which was crowded by a lot of relatively affluent families off the bat. Thanks to sibling preference, the demographics can't/won't change much if all other factors stay the same.

But a new location means demographics will only favor those who can get there one way or another.

[Anonymous]

LAMB also used to (illegally) run a separate lottery for Spanish speakers. They had to stop when the charter board intervened, but that means that with sibling preference you still also have a lot of kids coming from the heavily populated Latino neighborhoods like Adams Morgan.

[Anonymous]

LAMB has also moved almost every one/two yrs since it's inception and it wasn't until recently that they have stayed at a location longer than 2 so many families are use to following the school to wherever.

[Anonymous]

What strikes me most about OP is that she is making such a major decision based off of what's convenient for her rather than what's best for the child. Life with kids is all about sacrifice - lots more to come if the kid is still in preschool.

Also what makes OP think that just because they're invited to play dates they have to accept? Why not meet in the middle? Or not at all. Growing up I had neighborhood friends and school friends. Whoopty woo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP could have avoid all her issues by living WOTP in JKLMM but she wanted it all including inexpensive housing... now she's complaining about the inconvenience of it all. BOO HOO!!!

My house is EOTP and costs the same as homes WOTP so get over yourself. I value diversity which is why I did not move WOTP.

So you own a rowhome in Logan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really tough to call this one. My money is on:

Bloomingdale demographics have changed quite dramatically since the 2010 census even though it's only been 4 years. I personally know several Latino families in Bloomingdale so it's certainly not "zero".

I'm the PP to whom you're responding. Sure, fair point, not zero, but not very many at all, and many fewer than Mt Pleasant / Columbia Heights / Petworth / Adams Morgan in both absolute and relative terms.

This thread has unfortunately descended into a flame-war, which is too bad, because the title of the thread remains an interesting question. Mundo Verde is a bilingual program. It is currently 45% hispanic. What will happen to that number following the move?

I predict that number will steadily drop over the years, unless MV institutes some kind of dual lottery like Oyster (can charters do that?).

When they were situated right in the middle of the largest concentration of latinos in the District, they went to 45%. Now that they are moving to one of the lower concentrations, you would expect that number to fall, because there is a limit to how far most families can travel for preschool and elementary school, and the overall hispanic percentage of the DC school population is around 13%. There seem to be many on DCUM who are willing and able to drive long distances for PK3. I would be curious to see how often that is observed among latino families in the district.

Yes, I am using hispanic and latino interchangeably here which is wrong from a census perspective but I think they overlap reasonably well in DC. Apologies to all you non-latino hispanics.

OP here, sigh, finally someone has gotten back to the central question, which is, what does the move mean for the demographics? Anyway, I am signing off here because I am sure my posting will only generate more over the top assumptions that will have nothing to do with the first question. I am done being entertained for the day.

I'[m PP.

First off, I thought that people were being unnecessarily mean, so bravo for putting your name down and calling the bluff of all the anonymous detractors who were insulting you. You indeed win DCUM today.

Second, yes, I think the move presents a real challenge, and I suspect that one reason why most PPs have ignored my analysis above is that this is an uncomfortable truth, about MV and about dual-language charters in general.

Currently under the charter laws the charter schools have to hold blind city-wide lotteries. They are not allowed to control for income or race or language dominance, as far as I know. This issue has come up regarding the low FARMs percentage at Creative Minds.

For MV, it's not FARMs that is most important, it's the hispanic percentage, because it's really hard to sustain a quality bilingual program when you don't have a critical mass of spanish-speaking families attending. Oyster recognized this years ago, saw the writing on the wall in terms of Woodley Park/Kalorama demographics, and instituted a dual lottery. Meanwhile some DCPS schools mentioned in this thread, Bancroft for example, have a large latino IB population and therefore don't need a dual lottery. I believe Powell and Marie Reed also have a decent IB percentage? Less sure about Marie Reed, maybe someone there can comment.

I am interested to see what happens and how MV responds to it, but would we be surprised if we saw the hispanic percentage drop below 30% for the incoming PK3 classes, given the new location? I believe Cleveland is the closest dual language DCPS to the new MV location? Cleveland has 30% hispanic.

Now, on the other hand, LAMB is maintaining a decent percentage so far, and neither LAMB location is an especially hispanic neighborhood.

We'll see.

LAMB is actually at the edge of a hugely Latino apartment neighborhood within Brightwood.