measles- beware if you've been these places

[Anonymous]

It is possible the child who originally had measels was not vaccinated due to age. (Perhaps they were under one).

[Anonymous]

Just reread the article. Says that the person had close contact to the first person infected. Definitely sounds like an employee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dumb question here: if we and our kids have been vaccinated there's no risk to us, right? Is the risk to kids who haven't yet been vaccinated or has the measles mutated in some way?

Thanks, this was my question, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any info on the person with measles? Is it known if he/she was vaccinated?

I don't think they stated in the article but the original case in this area was a child who HAD been vaccinated...

Link, please

See subject. http://editor.des09.com/physicianbrief/PDFs/General/14-06_Loudoun_Measles_Investigation.pdf?utm_source=delivra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=May+6+IFMC+PB+%2D+Measles&utm_term=Measles+Alert

Expressly states that it was an unvaccinated person

I have not found a link, I remember it being talked about because the doctors office in question where both patients were- does not accept children who are un-vaccinated. I have done some searching and most articles don't state either way but say it was contracted outside of the country. I have seen is written but not confirmed one way or the other but a poster from the original thread spoke to the child's ped...

Google South Riding Pediatrics Facebook page. They have statements up about both patients and yes, they do claim that both WERE vaccinated. They also claim their policy is that patients must be vaccinated. Very interesting that the treating hospital of the first patient says there was no vaccination...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any info on the person with measles? Is it known if he/she was vaccinated?

I don't think they stated in the article but the original case in this area was a child who HAD been vaccinated...

Link, please

See subject. http://editor.des09.com/physicianbrief/PDFs/General/14-06_Loudoun_Measles_Investigation.pdf?utm_source=delivra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=May+6+IFMC+PB+%2D+Measles&utm_term=Measles+Alert

Expressly states that it was an unvaccinated person

I have not found a link, I remember it being talked about because the doctors office in question where both patients were- does not accept children who are un-vaccinated. I have done some searching and most articles don't state either way but say it was contracted outside of the country. I have seen is written but not confirmed one way or the other but a poster from the original thread spoke to the child's ped...

Google South Riding Pediatrics Facebook page. They have statements up about both patients and yes, they do claim that both WERE vaccinated. They also claim their policy is that patients must be vaccinated. Very interesting that the treating hospital of the first patient says there was no vaccination...

Their response from a few hours ago: "The individuals in question WERE vaccinated but unfortunately fell into the small percentage of people for whom the vaccine was not effective in preventing the measles virus. This is why it's so important for everyone to get vaccinated to keep all of us as healthy as possible. We do have a vaccine policy at South Riding Pediatrics which requires our patients to be vaccinated."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb question here: if we and our kids have been vaccinated there's no risk to us, right? Is the risk to kids who haven't yet been vaccinated or has the measles mutated in some way?

Thanks, this was my question, too.

I'm under the impression that the herd (as it's called in the medical profession) * is * at risk because since the outlier non-vaxers keep the disease alive, it mutates and this can make the original vaccination less effective--thus exposing the herd (the vaccinated folks) to greater risk.

For example, there always has to be a new flu vaccine because the flu evolves as it goes.

I'm pretty sure this is correct because I got it from my friend who is an ER doctor, but we kept being interrupted by our kids, so may not have got it all right. She was FURIOUS at the non-vaxers, btw, which in and of itself bothers me because you know these doctors are pretty unflappable; they've seen it all. I'm curious if anyone else has heard this line of thought?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just reread the article. Says that the person had close contact to the first person infected. Definitely sounds like an employee.

There's no common place of business, right? Sounds more like a relative/close friend and play date type situation where the children were infected. Unless of course the only connection is South Riding Pediatrics and having children play in the waiting room together is considered close contact. Were the pediatrician times listed identical?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some facts since PPs were asking.

1. You can be vaccinated for measles and still be one of the unlucky people for whom the vaccine was not perfectly effective, and therefore still contract it. It is about 95% effective. With herd immunity intact, that level of effectiveness would eventually wipe out the disease (if everyone were vaccinated).
2. This is not a "mutated" strain of measles.
3. Infants under 1 cannot be vaccinated and are at highest risk.
4. People with compromised immune systems or people who cannot be vaccinated (because of actual medical reasons and not Jenny McCarthy) are also at high risk.
5. Measles is extremely contagious and can be contracted just by being in a room someone with measles was in -- not concurrently, but hours earlier.
6. 90% of people not immune will contract measles from being close to someone with measles.
7. Measles is a human-only virus (it has no animal reservoirs) and could be completely eliminated if it weren't for the anti-vaccine movement.
8. The death rate for measles is about 3 in 1000 for healthy children, but it is 30 in 100 for people with immune issues, and can cause other serious complications, including brain damage, even if it doesn't kill (there is a reason it's vaccinated for!).

Source: CDC website

Where on earth did this statistic come from?

I had measles as did everyone I knew when I was a child. There was no vaccine for measles, and it was not in any way a deadly disease. Everyone got it, and no one died.

There are lies, damned lies and statistics -- this is a case of statistics.

In a vaccinated population, very few healthy children will come down with measles. In developing countries, this statistic might be plausible, but that's because those "healthy" children suffer from malnutrition, parasites, poor hygiene, poor access to clean water, etc, all of which contribute to the death rate in these supposedly "healthy" children.

In America, well-nourished middle class children with no immune issues are not likely to die of measles ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb question here: if we and our kids have been vaccinated there's no risk to us, right? Is the risk to kids who haven't yet been vaccinated or has the measles mutated in some way?

Thanks, this was my question, too.

I'm under the impression that the herd (as it's called in the medical profession) * is * at risk because since the outlier non-vaxers keep the disease alive, it mutates and this can make the original vaccination less effective--thus exposing the herd (the vaccinated folks) to greater risk.

For example, there always has to be a new flu vaccine because the flu evolves as it goes.

I'm pretty sure this is correct because I got it from my friend who is an ER doctor, but we kept being interrupted by our kids, so may not have got it all right. She was FURIOUS at the non-vaxers, btw, which in and of itself bothers me because you know these doctors are pretty unflappable; they've seen it all. I'm curious if anyone else has heard this line of thought?

I have a relative that's a pediatrician and she said that if the non-vaxers saw what Whooping Cough was actually like, they would definitely change their tunes. Maybe there should be some PSA's showing kids actually suffering from some of these terrible preventable diseases. Out of sight out of mind, but since everyone knows someone with autism, that's a much more understandable risk to the non-vaxers than some strange, old-fashioned disease.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Where on earth did this statistic come from?

I had measles as did everyone I knew when I was a child. There was no vaccine for measles, and it was not in any way a deadly disease. Everyone got it, and no one died.

There are lies, damned lies and statistics -- this is a case of statistics.

In a vaccinated population, very few healthy children will come down with measles. In developing countries, this statistic might be plausible, but that's because those "healthy" children suffer from malnutrition, parasites, poor hygiene, poor access to clean water, etc, all of which contribute to the death rate in these supposedly "healthy" children.

In America, well-nourished middle class children with no immune issues are not likely to die of measles ever.

In a vaccinated population, very few healthy children will come down with measles BECAUSE THEY ARE VACCINATED.

And maybe nobody you know died of measles. But the actual true fact is that children did die of measles.

Do you want numbers? 400-500 deaths per year in the US in the decade before vaccination; 48,000 hospitalizations per year; 1,000 cases of chronic disability per year because of measles encephalitis. http://www.cdc.gov/measles/vaccination.html

Do you want an example of a child who died of measles? Google Roald Dahl measles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Where on earth did this statistic come from?

I had measles as did everyone I knew when I was a child. There was no vaccine for measles, and it was not in any way a deadly disease. Everyone got it, and no one died.

There are lies, damned lies and statistics -- this is a case of statistics.

In a vaccinated population, very few healthy children will come down with measles. In developing countries, this statistic might be plausible, but that's because those "healthy" children suffer from malnutrition, parasites, poor hygiene, poor access to clean water, etc, all of which contribute to the death rate in these supposedly "healthy" children.

In America, well-nourished middle class children with no immune issues are not likely to die of measles ever.

I'm also impressed by the implication that worrying about measles is a total overreaction because well-nourished healthy middle-class children don't die of measles. Poor children, sick children, adults dying of measles? Eh, who cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb question here: if we and our kids have been vaccinated there's no risk to us, right? Is the risk to kids who haven't yet been vaccinated or has the measles mutated in some way?

Thanks, this was my question, too.

I'm under the impression that the herd (as it's called in the medical profession) * is * at risk because since the outlier non-vaxers keep the disease alive, it mutates and this can make the original vaccination less effective--thus exposing the herd (the vaccinated folks) to greater risk.

For example, there always has to be a new flu vaccine because the flu evolves as it goes.

I'm pretty sure this is correct because I got it from my friend who is an ER doctor, but we kept being interrupted by our kids, so may not have got it all right. She was FURIOUS at the non-vaxers, btw, which in and of itself bothers me because you know these doctors are pretty unflappable; they've seen it all. I'm curious if anyone else has heard this line of thought?

This is kind of twisted logic with a grain of truth at the center. Yes, if ALL non-vaxers came down with measles, it's plausible they would help keep the pool of virus available and it's also possible the virus could mutate (but you'd have to consult an expert on these viruses for exact information on this -- and an ER doctor is not an infectious disease specialist).

However, the point of herd immunity is that the non-vaxers benefit from all the other people who are vaccinated, so even though they are not vaccinated, they are still protected from the disease because no one else has it due to the vaccine. In theory, if the vaccines work properly, no one should get the disease, even the small percentage of people who choose not to vaccinate.

I think it's easy to blame people who are not vaccinated, but in fact, most of the cases of measles are in people who have been vaccinated.

It's never clear from news stories where the virus originated in cases of measles outbreaks. I would like to know if the virus "hides" somewhere in the environment, and then emerges from time to time. There are so few cases of measles nowadays -- it ought to be easy to figure out where each case comes originates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Where on earth did this statistic come from?

I had measles as did everyone I knew when I was a child. There was no vaccine for measles, and it was not in any way a deadly disease. Everyone got it, and no one died.

There are lies, damned lies and statistics -- this is a case of statistics.

In a vaccinated population, very few healthy children will come down with measles. In developing countries, this statistic might be plausible, but that's because those "healthy" children suffer from malnutrition, parasites, poor hygiene, poor access to clean water, etc, all of which contribute to the death rate in these supposedly "healthy" children.

In America, well-nourished middle class children with no immune issues are not likely to die of measles ever.

In a vaccinated population, very few healthy children will come down with measles BECAUSE THEY ARE VACCINATED.

And maybe nobody you know died of measles. But the actual true fact is that children did die of measles.

Do you want numbers? 400-500 deaths per year in the US in the decade before vaccination; 48,000 hospitalizations per year; 1,000 cases of chronic disability per year because of measles encephalitis. http://www.cdc.gov/measles/vaccination.html

Do you want an example of a child who died of measles? Google Roald Dahl measles.

Where did you get this statistic? I looked all over the CDC website and couldn't find it. I did find this:

During January 1–August 24, 2013, a total of 159 cases were reported to CDC from 16 states and New York City (Figure 2). Patients ranged in age from 0 days to 61 years; 18 (11%) were aged <12 months, 40 (25%) were aged 1–4 years, 58 (36%) were aged 5–19 years, and 43 (27%) were aged ?20 years. Among the 159 cases, 17 (11%) persons required hospitalization, including four patients diagnosed with pneumonia. No deaths were reported.

Among the 159 cases, 157 (99%) were import-associated, and two had an unknown source. Forty-two (26%) importations (23 returning U.S residents and 19 visitors to the United States) from 18 countries were reported, and 21 (50%) of the importations were from the WHO European Region. Genotypes identified to date are D8 (47 cases), B3 (six), H1 (four), D9 (three), and D4 (two).

Most cases were in persons who were unvaccinated (131 [82%]) or had unknown vaccination status (15 [9%]). Thirteen (8%) of the patients had been vaccinated, of whom three had received 2 doses of measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine. Among 140 U.S. residents who acquired measles, 117 (84%) were unvaccinated, and 11(8%) had unknown vaccination status. Of those who were unvaccinated, 92 (79%) had philosophical objections to vaccination, six (5%) had missed opportunities for vaccination, 15 (13%) occurred among infants aged <12 months who were not eligible for vaccination, and for four (3%) the reason for no vaccination was unknown (Figure 3). Among the 21 U.S resident patients who traveled abroad and were aged ?6 months, 14 (67%) were unvaccinated, five (24%) had unknown vaccination status, and two had received 1 dose of MMR vaccine.

So, since 99 percent of the cases were import-associated, that means that unvaccinated Americans were NOT the cause of the outbreaks during January-August 2013. There were only 2 out of 149 cases that the cause of their infection was unknown. That means all those 147 cases originated outside the US, and none of those cases resulted in a spread of the virus within the US, with the possible exception of two cases, but there is not data connecting those two cases to any of the 147 cases that originated outside the US.

There's a lot of hysteria on this board about the horrors of people who choose not to vaccinate. But the facts I copied from the CDC website speak to the extremely low (probably nonexistent) risk nonvaccinated people pose to vaccinated individuals in the US.

Clearly, there is a risk of acquiring measles in other countries, so make sure you're vaccinated if you are traveling to a country where measles is prevalent.

Save your hysteria for fear of the Tea Partiers. They are the ones who pose a real threat to your health.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand your point. We shouldn't worry about measles, because most people are vaccinated?

So if people stop vaccinating, then...

[Anonymous]

Hope my vaccine is effective. I haven't been to the farmers market in months but did go that day, at that time (they say 11:30-5:30 but the market closes at 1:00 so I suspect it was a narrower window). Hope they weren't buying asparagus.