Fitting in financially DOES matter, like it or not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sure we all tell our kids "don't judge a book by its cover". And while this is probably true in relationships, I'm not so sure it's helpful in this case, unless we are actually going to go down the route of tell our kids that their classmates families are financial frauds (no thanks!). And maybe our kids will grow up to be better for hearing this.

But that doesn't end the problem, it doesn't stop others from judging you -- in your own post you mentioned the reaction to the revelation of your vacation home. So I guess I'm back to acknowledging that the problem really does exist, and getting away from blaming the victim. And I really would be curious to learn what you say to your kids.

I say nothing to my kids. They are equally comfortable visiting a mobile home of a neighbor in a very rural area and a mansion (a for-real one), and they never mention the difference. They just care whether they had fun or something interesting happened. We have tried hard to teach them to comfortably straddle many worlds, and they do it. The only time they mention a house being nice is when they talk about ours, and I can assure you they have been to many, many grander places.

I think the "problem," if there is one, is that people seem so bent on comparing themselves to others. That's a learned behavior, and it can be unlearned. And yes, I get judged all the time. It amuses me, actually. I think its completely bizarre that people think they can size up other people based on their things. Why am I suddenly more worth talking to because I have X,Y or Z? I realize this is just a variation of the standard "What do you do?" question that floats around in NYC so often. It used to bother me, but I have finally gotten to the place that I really just don't care except perhaps to be mildly amused by it.

I never said you should tell them other kids' families are steps away from foreclosure. All I am advocating is teaching them that it just isn't really relevant to their reality and their lives. You get one life. Why spend the whole time checking out others' stuff rather than appreicating your own? I think there is a commandment along those lines, right? Thy shall not covet thy neghbors goods, or something like that.

This is so interesting--despite all your protestations you seem as much or more caught up in this than anyone. Does it get under your skin that people don't think you're as wealthy as you are? For example, what is up with the "for real" mansion? You seem very intent on making sure that all of usunderstand that you have access to "many, many grander places" etc. So, I suggest you think about glass houses.

[Anonymous]

All of the top-notch lawyers I know personally are also strong in math. (lawyer = math challenged)

[Anonymous]

I agree with this poster about the part about trying to teach your kids that none of it matters. I don't think any of us disagree with that. None of us wants status-conscious brats, or the opposite, kids who are worried that they don't stack up status-wise.

But I still think she's caught up in a knot of trying to deny that judgment exists, while at the same time admitting she's been judged, while at the same time casually mentioning her own status, while at the same time trying to teach her kids good values.

This is a thread about how it does exist, and what to do about it. Teaching your kids to ignore is a good first step. But it won't make it go away. And the problems faced by kids and familes at the so-called "lower" end of the socio-economic spectrum are very different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:14:27, do you really see no irony in mentioning, in a post that's supposed to be about denying the existence of class consciousness, your own financial position and the fact that you spent last weekend at a fancy resort? It hardly seemed necessary to your arguments.

It actually was. My point was all you people on this board would assume because I (i) don't mention my second house in non-anonymous company and (ii) live in a house that costs much less than I can afford that I was not as well off as others in the class. Similarly, you would assume that the people who do live in big houses etc. are far more well off than others in the class and some of you seem to feel insecure about that. My whole point was you know nothing of these people's finances and situations except what you choose to see. Again, don't judge a book by its cover. I never denied that class consciousness exists. I just said everybody needs to get over it and quit making stupid assumptions about people based on what you perceive they do or don't have.

The resort remark which so many of you find amusing was intended to show that if you raise your kids right they see no difference between a well-known resort (I said well-known; you all assume fancy) and their own homes that are filled with warmth and love, nor do they pine for some lavish lifestyle a classmate might have.

But, you know, keep assuming. Keep being status consccious if that's what floats your boat. Keep thinking you can size up everybody else's situations by their job titles, or cars, or houses or whatever. And most of all please keep thinking that it is who is richest in the class that matters. You will pass those things on to your kids, and then I will know which kids to steer my kids clear of.

Tow words - Lipstick, pig

[Anonymous]

TWO (not tow) words:

Judgment Day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TWO (not tow) words:

Judgment Day

You got me!

[Anonymous]

I think I can safely speak for others in saying that where certain common sense things are involved -- like trying to maintain perspective, and teaching the kids not to judge a book by its cover -- we all have a grip on these already.

However, I just don't buy your argument that those of us posting here are feeling judged by others, and even insecure, for no good reason. And I don't understand why you maintain this position, even as you acknowledge that it's happened to you.

Fitting in, which is the title of the thread, does matter. And you can't just argue that it's all in our imaginations, because it often comes from other parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To answer previous question, NIH researchers send their kids to BCC, Walter Johnson, and Churchill, or the Blair magnet. They can't afford privates, nor Whitman district. Moreover, they often send their science leaning kids to big public Universities, where well funded research programs exist.

We've met lots of university profs and government researchy types at MoCo magnet schools.

[Anonymous]

I'm rather enjoying the Marie Antoinette approach -- it hasn't happened to us (because we're so rich) so it must just be coming from your own paranoia.

[Anonymous]

To get back, for a moment, to the original topic of the post, I wonder a lot about whether being "poor" relative to other kids, though not remotely poor in actuality, has a corrosive effect on kids. I think it does. I don't buy that kids don't notice material differences: my 3 yo announced the other day that "our house has 3 potties" and that so and so's house has 4. It's not a value judgement -- he likes to count -- but it's clear that in his mind the comparison is interesting.

I have a brother with money/class issues who is very resentful of "rich people" and feels that we were deprived throughout our childhood. I grew up in the same family and always felt we were affluent and had nice things. The major difference between us was that he attended private school beginning in kindergarten, and I attended mostly public, with a few years of private around middle school. We both attended Ivy League colleges, which our parents paid for without financial aid. Relative to his friends, he had little money, didn't have a season ski pass, didn't get to go on nice trips, drove a crappy car, and felt other people should foot the bill for him; relative to mine, I had a lot of opportunities, including a car of my own and the ability to choose an expensive college. As adults we have different attitudes towards money and I'm biased but I think mine is healthier. I'm not sure if the benefits of my brother's fancier education outweighed some of the extra-curricular ideas he picked up from his peer group.

[Anonymous]

I have to think back to when I first noticed.
When we were young, we were always better off than our neighbors, but my parents deprived us of a lot. The less wealthy kids always had the newest bikes. In middle school, we were not the richest, because we moved to a much more affluent area.

I never felt better than the kids I knew when I was young. I never teased them. My mother would have killed me.

In middle school, it mattered that we were less fortunate than some, but only for three short years.
In high school, I stopped caring.
In college again, I was one of the more affluent ones; but again, did not care, and did not brag.

[Anonymous]

OP here. 21:56 -- that is exactly what I am talking about. My brothers have had similar outcome as far as their materialism, etc. I think because I am so sensitive to it, I can address it early on with my kids, and that way hope to avoid it, but I wonder......

[Anonymous]

Law firm partner here. We fit in financially. But find that this just makes us another face in the crowed. Money is not enough for you to be the Big Family on Campus, let alone truly fitting in. At least in this city, we've found its power (fancy titles and access). But for the fabulous education DC is receiving, we would have left the school and this city years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Law firm partner here. We fit in financially. But find that this just makes us another face in the crowed. Money is not enough for you to be the Big Family on Campus, let alone truly fitting in. At least in this city, we've found its power (fancy titles and access). But for the fabulous education DC is receiving, we would have left the school and this city years ago.

I find this to be a rather odd definition of fitting in. You need to be even more than a "Big Family on Campus" in order to fit in? Why can't you fit in as just another face in the crowd--since by definition the crowd incudes many others?

[Anonymous]

It is not such a terrible thing for kids to see that their friends have "more" than they do.