Friend does not discipline her child and it's no longer fun hanging out with them -- what to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's because I have four kids and I have a little more life experience than many of the posters in this forum (who tend to have one or two very little ones), but I honestly couldn't care less about my friends' parenting styles. As long as they don't yell obscenities or beat their kids, it really doesn't bother me how strict or lax they are. I'm only responsible for my kids. Period. And I strive not to pass judgment on my friends (even the ones who are super strict/crazy/judgmental and those who are super lax). I'm sure some of our friends think we are too laid back. We don't see it that way. We have older kids, so we now realize that we don't have to shadow our toddler's every move. We have older kids, so we recognize that we don't have to intervene in every situation. In fact, we prefer that our kids try to resolve situations on their own. We are the anti-helicopter parents.

I totally DISagree with this, because I've seen the various negative impacts hanging out with rude kids have had on my kids and mine are now older. I feel like my home and choosing which homes my kids hang out in regularly are 2 of the *only* ways I can filter out crappy peer influences. Yes, raising my kids the best I can is defense #1, but since you can't control who their classmates are and they spend so much time at school, I sure as heck will keep away kids who behave badly and parents who do nothing to address it. At best, I have to work harder to explain to my kids why they can't be off the chain. At worst, I have to de-program them every time the play date ends and get them back to their mostly sweet selves.

OP in your case, in my home, I just tell ALL kids what the rules are. I wait at first to see if their parents are responsive, but if not then I'm on their kids just like I'm on mine. If that's a problem for the other parent, we probably aren't a good play date match and tats ok. But I'm not letting someone else's kid do bad things my kids can't do in my own house. Period.

[Anonymous]

I didnt much "discipline" my 3 year old because my oldest was generally an easy-foing, eager to please kid. The perfect play date. My second is much more into testing boundaries. Meaning, parents dont pat yourself on the back fir raising the perfect 3 year old, you may just have an easy kid.

I think "my house my rules" is totally okay. But this is also the age when you need to start teaching your kid that theybfollow your rules, regardless of what their peers do. You arent going to be able to surround them only with kids whose families follow your "parenting atyle". Are you really going to teach your kids to snub their nose at families who dont "parent" like you do? What about kids from other socio-economic statuses or cultural backgrounds?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didnt much "discipline" my 3 year old because my oldest was generally an easy-foing, eager to please kid. The perfect play date. My second is much more into testing boundaries. Meaning, parents dont pat yourself on the back fir raising the perfect 3 year old, you may just have an easy kid.

I think "my house my rules" is totally okay. But this is also the age when you need to start teaching your kid that theybfollow your rules, regardless of what their peers do. You arent going to be able to surround them only with kids whose families follow your "parenting atyle". Are you really going to teach your kids to snub their nose at families who dont "parent" like you do? What about kids from other socio-economic statuses or cultural backgrounds?

+1

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for the responses. To be clear, my kid is far from perfect, and I'm certainly not the perfect mom. But I do try my best to teach him how to behave respectfully to others, and from what I can see my approach is pretty consistent with most of the other moms I know. As far as judging this other mom, I guess parenting style really isn't the issue. The issue is how her kid behaves toward my kid and in my house, to the extent that it affects us. Am I not entitled to have an opinion about things that directly affect my family? But at this age, I don't think I can blame the child, so I have to look to the parent who sanctions and excuses the bad behavior. My kid definitely is starting to understand that different rules apply to different kids in different situations and I have no problem with that, but when the difference in rules basically results in my kid getting the short end of the stick over and over with the same kid that we see a lot, I start to feel like I'm ganging up on my own kid.

As I said, I have no interest in hashing this out with my friend, or trying to change her. That's her business. I'm just sad because I really like this other woman and I wish I could still enjoy being with her and our kids. I do appreciate the suggestion that this phase might pass, at least to an extent, so I will try to keep seeing her in more "neutral" locations and maybe in time it will get better.

My only question is, for those of you who said this friendship can't be saved, what exactly should I tell my friend if she asks me point blank what's going on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didnt much "discipline" my 3 year old because my oldest was generally an easy-foing, eager to please kid. The perfect play date. My second is much more into testing boundaries. Meaning, parents dont pat yourself on the back fir raising the perfect 3 year old, you may just have an easy kid.

I think "my house my rules" is totally okay. But this is also the age when you need to start teaching your kid that theybfollow your rules, regardless of what their peers do. You arent going to be able to surround them only with kids whose families follow your "parenting atyle". Are you really going to teach your kids to snub their nose at families who dont "parent" like you do? What about kids from other socio-economic statuses or cultural backgrounds?

OP here. You certainly are creative in your extrapolation skills, I'll give you that. But I'm not going to dignify this with a response.

[Anonymous]

We discipline our 2.5 year old like crazy (timeouts, take away toys, remove her from playgrounds, etc.) but she is still very stubborn and repeats bad behavior to get reactions out of us. As PP said, some people just have easy children. As a parent who gets really tired of disciplining all the time, when it doesn't always get results, sometmies you have moments where you are just too exhausted to bother... doesn't mean you are overall a lazy parent! Give your friend a break... maybe she deals with this at home all the time and sees her time with you (where her kid is busy playing with yours) as a bit of a break from all of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's because I have four kids and I have a little more life experience than many of the posters in this forum (who tend to have one or two very little ones), but I honestly couldn't care less about my friends' parenting styles. As long as they don't yell obscenities or beat their kids, it really doesn't bother me how strict or lax they are. I'm only responsible for my kids. Period. And I strive not to pass judgment on my friends (even the ones who are super strict/crazy/judgmental and those who are super lax). I'm sure some of our friends think we are too laid back. We don't see it that way. We have older kids, so we now realize that we don't have to shadow our toddler's every move. We have older kids, so we recognize that we don't have to intervene in every situation. In fact, we prefer that our kids try to resolve situations on their own. We are the anti-helicopter parents.

I could have written this because it fits me to a T. I feel the same way. My first one made it to where she is today, and the other two are doing just great
with little intervention. Shouldnt be anyone elses business but my own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bratty-ist Tweens I know were raised by "perfect" parents who sat on them and were so strict that their kids were quick to step out of line and take risks as soon as their parents weren't around. And let's think back to all the girls we knew in hs or college who got pregnant unexpectedly....they all came from super strict houses with crazy moms, remember?

No, I do not remember that at all. My friend who got pregnant at 14's parents were super-lenient. We all saw it coming because she ruled that house and did whatever she wanted. Ditto for the ones who got pregnant later, ended up in jail, and otherwise were failures to launch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didnt much "discipline" my 3 year old because my oldest was generally an easy-foing, eager to please kid. The perfect play date. My second is much more into testing boundaries. Meaning, parents dont pat yourself on the back fir raising the perfect 3 year old, you may just have an easy kid.

I think "my house my rules" is totally okay. But this is also the age when you need to start teaching your kid that theybfollow your rules, regardless of what their peers do. You arent going to be able to surround them only with kids whose families follow your "parenting atyle". Are you really going to teach your kids to snub their nose at families who dont "parent" like you do? What about kids from other socio-economic statuses or cultural backgrounds?

you are deluding yourself if you think that parenting makes no difference. Parents actually do play a role. I feel for your kids who are going to grow up with the older beleiving they were born the good kid, and the younger believing they were just born the bad kid, while you stand back and say nothing you could have said or done could have shaped who they became or how they acted at all. I think thi sis the newest parenting trend...to take zero responsibility for your kids and say it is all just "fate".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's because I have four kids and I have a little more life experience than many of the posters in this forum (who tend to have one or two very little ones), but I honestly couldn't care less about my friends' parenting styles. As long as they don't yell obscenities or beat their kids, it really doesn't bother me how strict or lax they are. I'm only responsible for my kids. Period. And I strive not to pass judgment on my friends (even the ones who are super strict/crazy/judgmental and those who are super lax). I'm sure some of our friends think we are too laid back. We don't see it that way. We have older kids, so we now realize that we don't have to shadow our toddler's every move. We have older kids, so we recognize that we don't have to intervene in every situation. In fact, we prefer that our kids try to resolve situations on their own. We are the anti-helicopter parents.

I think I just fell in love--too many judgey parents..nice to see one who isn't. Wish this mom would just relax and just have fun with her friend. God if the worst thing in life is another kid hanging on the fridge..life is good!! Relax!!

I have four kids too, and am laid back and I disagree. I couldn't care less what other parents do in their own home but I have no desire to sit back and say how cute their kids are while they draw on my walls or break my furniture. I don't enjoy my lunch when their kids are screaming at the table, yelling demanding their parents to give them x right now or they will kick them, climbing up on the table while we are eating and opening their mouths to show us all their food. I don't enjoy their kids when they are in my backyard when they throw sand, break the toys and run through the garden. I don't actually get to enjoy the friendship either when moms while time is spend running around catering to her children's every whim and when she can't leave them for 2 seconds or they break more things. I also couldn't care less if you think I am judging, I have no desire to spend my time or have my kids spend time with other kids who are disrespectful, destructive and who tell their parents what to do. I am guessing you are the ones whose kids are running wild which is why you think everyone should just relax and have fun. We have different ideas of fun.

[Anonymous]

Also, when I see my DD take something out of another child's hand, I will immediately force her to give it back to the other child and wait her turn. When Amy's DD grabs something from my DD -- which is constantly -- Amy will plead and cajole her DD to give it back, but if her DD chooses not to give it up, she keeps it.

This actually is somewhat like the way our child's preschool teaches sharing. They do not snatch something away from the snatcher to give back because they believe that's just teaching the snatcher that it's ok to take things out of the hands of others. There's a blog/video somewhere recently called It's ok not to share which you might want to read to get a better perspective of other's viewpoints. DC's teachers try to coax into giving the object back but if not they then teach ways to do things better the next time and maybe help out with the next thing the snatcher wants to do to help the child use words instead of hands. I had a child what was a snatcher and very possessive of things and then my second has been the easiest going kid around sharing everything without care. I don't believe I parented them that differently. The possessive child still has some reluctance to share on occasion but is much better and has no discipline issues at school and goes to others houses now for playdates without incident. Children who have a habit that a parent doesn't like tend to wear the parents down. That may be what's happening. I would just have playdates with this child and another one so that there would be more better behaved kids and this child would be less of an influence on yours. That and setting house rules that you enforce, not your friend.

[Anonymous]

Your house, your rules. Why aren't you correcting Amy's child when she plays with your refrigerator door after she clearly heard you instruct your own daughter to not do that?

I correct other people's children all the time when they are in my own house. I do it nicely, but I make it quite clear that certain behaviors won't be tolerated.

That said, 3 yos? That's still redirect territory, not scold territory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not so fast, PP. Truly kind people do not judge. And normal people recognize that parenting isn't a competitive sport.

EVERYONE judges...they just don't voice it.

[Anonymous]

This goes both ways. I have a friend who is totally hysterical about everything when our 3yo boys are playing together. They can't do anything that boys normally do - roughhouse/wrestle, play loudly with trucks/cars, etc without her CONSTANTLY correcting them both. It is so annoying - and several times recently I have told her that they are boys and that this is how boys behave, and that unless one of them is hurt or we catch them doing something inappropriate we can't "micro-manage" their play. Boys will be boys, and occasionally someone will get hurt. You deal with it then and let them try to work things out on their own as much as possible. You don't shriek at them like hovering harpies constantly through two hours of play. It's fucking exhausting being around someone like this. I love my friend, and I'm hoping she'll chill the fuck out once her new baby is born. But in the meantime, I'm gritting my teeth a lot and limiting playdates a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your house, your rules. Why aren't you correcting Amy's child when she plays with your refrigerator door after she clearly heard you instruct your own daughter to not do that?

I correct other people's children all the time when they are in my own house. I do it nicely, but I make it quite clear that certain behaviors won't be tolerated.

That said, 3 yos? That's still redirect territory, not scold territory.

I agree. With friends, you enforce your own house rules and you respect those of your friends. That said, even if a child's friend is allowed to do something in their own house, if I don't want my kid doing it I will stop them and explain to them why. But I have no problem with correcting a friend's kid in my house by saying that my kid isn't allowed to do XYZ and that I don't want them doing it either. This has never once caused friction with any of my friends.