Advice on working for female boss with no kids ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My best advice is don't expect her to understand. Don't go into detail about why you need this or that - because it will make no sense to her - just TELL her what you need. You need to leave at 3 because your daycare closes early, that is all you say. You had a rough night, you just say you are tired. Be clear about your needs, without detail. Detail sounds whiny and like you are making excuses. Straight facts work.

And when she drones on and on about how busy she is - with her one pet - and because she has dinner guests coming over - and how will she find time to clean in the next two weeks - you hold back from saying "are you crazy woman - you have tons of free time" and you smile, nod-knowingly, and agree.

Yes. A million times yes.

For the record, my worst, most family unfriendly boss was a male with a kid, but I think his wife took care of the kid 98% of the time, so he totally didn't get it. Once I made the mistake of telling him that I needed to take off because my nanny had called in sick (which was the truth) and the next day he sent me info about very expensive temporary nanny services. From then on, I vowed that if the nanny was ever sick again (which she rarely was), I would just lie and tell him I was the sick one. For the record, my company's sick policy said that you were allowed to take a sick day to fill in for a sick childcare provider.

[Anonymous]

What are folks doing that is so important that a sick day cannot be taken here and there?

[Anonymous]

OP.
I'd check with HR on pumping and taking sick days if your child is sick.
After that, I am not clear what your expectations are as to flexibility.
I hope all goes smoothly.

[Anonymous]

My mother was ED at a non-profit for years and a serious micro-manager, who completely forgot the demands of parenthood whenever staff needed time off.

The employee who handled it best was the one who managed my mother right back. She set a schedule for outputs and did frequent check-ins to make sure that my mother was aware of the progress being made. She did this to a ridiculous degree---multiple calls in a single day, peeping her head in the office, post-it mini memos.

I thought it was hilarious. My mother never realized the trick and still thinks of this woman as one of her best employees. She (the employee) kept to her usual pace, from what I saw, but all of the communication made her seem so much more productive. She also aptly preempted my mother's concerns by feeding her information steadily.

She never mentioned her personal life. We knew she'd had a baby, but only because we remembered the pregnancy, not because she made it a topic of conversation. During my own pregnancy, years and years later, I practiced my unintentional mentor's trick and deflected every casual question regarding the pregnancy with a work update or an interesting tidbit from a recent conference or journal article. I was mushy and baby-crazy outside of the office, but stayed on-point at work.

[Anonymous]

17:23 Brilliant!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My mother was ED at a non-profit for years and a serious micro-manager, who completely forgot the demands of parenthood whenever staff needed time off.

The employee who handled it best was the one who managed my mother right back. She set a schedule for outputs and did frequent check-ins to make sure that my mother was aware of the progress being made. She did this to a ridiculous degree---multiple calls in a single day, peeping her head in the office, post-it mini memos.

I thought it was hilarious. My mother never realized the trick and still thinks of this woman as one of her best employees. She (the employee) kept to her usual pace, from what I saw, but all of the communication made her seem so much more productive. She also aptly preempted my mother's concerns by feeding her information steadily.

She never mentioned her personal life. We knew she'd had a baby, but only because we remembered the pregnancy, not because she made it a topic of conversation. During my own pregnancy, years and years later, I practiced my unintentional mentor's trick and deflected every casual question regarding the pregnancy with a work update or an interesting tidbit from a recent conference or journal article. I was mushy and baby-crazy outside of the office, but stayed on-point at work.

Ha! I used that same tactic with my PSYCHOTIC single, woman-hating male boss. He loved to send messages out at all hours of the day and night...since I was always up with a baby that never slept....I would post right back to him..even when it didn't need a response. He soon shut the hell up but how much he worked and was less of an ass to me. He was worthless and thought having blackberry with him 24/7 meant he was a good worker. He never did sh*t but you could reach him any time of day....not that anyone else at this govt job was even allowed to work those hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My best advice is don't expect her to understand. Don't go into detail about why you need this or that - because it will make no sense to her - just TELL her what you need. You need to leave at 3 because your daycare closes early, that is all you say. You had a rough night, you just say you are tired. Be clear about your needs, without detail. Detail sounds whiny and like you are making excuses. Straight facts work.

And when she drones on and on about how busy she is - with her one pet - and because she has dinner guests coming over - and how will she find time to clean in the next two weeks - you hold back from saying "are you crazy woman - you have tons of free time" and you smile, nod-knowingly, and agree.

Yes. A million times yes.

For the record, my worst, most family unfriendly boss was a male with a kid, but I think his wife took care of the kid 98% of the time, so he totally didn't get it. Once I made the mistake of telling him that I needed to take off because my nanny had called in sick (which was the truth) and the next day he sent me info about very expensive temporary nanny services. From then on, I vowed that if the nanny was ever sick again (which she rarely was), I would just lie and tell him I was the sick one. For the record, my company's sick policy said that you were allowed to take a sick day to fill in for a sick childcare provider.

Parent here who posted previously - I ALWAYS do this. I rarely get sick (knock on wood) so it typically works. Saying you are home with your kids just pisses them off more!

[Anonymous]

My prior boss was a 50 something female, never-married, no kids. Yet she was actually incredibly supportive and accommodating to me when I became a mom and advocated for me when I sought a part-time schedule. Ironically, she took more of an interest in my baby/children than other co-workers who were probably too frazzled with their teens/children to think about what I was dealing with. Do what you can to excel at whatever work/field you are in OP and your manager/boss should support you. I hope everything works out well for you.

[Anonymous]

As a fomer Biglaw partner who supervised dozens of people and have three kids under 6, I echo what others have said

-- Do not constantly talk about your kids, and do not say you need time off to take care of them; just say you have an "appointment"
-- Be extremely flexible; have full time child care even if you are part time; the "I can't work Fridays because it is my day off and I don't have child care" doesn't cut it at the OP's level and career
-- Dont' be the "problem" that you boss has to deal with and think about constantly, whether or not it is a man or woman or he/she has children. Just do your job and be part of the team; if you are constantly asking for accommodations, you will not advance and your boss will not want you on high profile cases. Why should he/she have to worry about your situation and have to cover for you.

I know this sounds harsh, but is based on many years of watching how men and women deal with women with children. It feels quite liberating to be able to be honest. Too often this message gets lost in the we are a "work life balance" agency/firm.

So what can you expect from me? You can expect me to be very flexbile when I can (e.g., meetings, traveling, deadlines) and trust that when you say you are working from home you are actually working (and in my experience, working more efficiently than when you are in the office.)

FWIW

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience...older woman with no kids tend to be the bitchiest bosses ever. I work for a very large govt agencies and the 10 or so NOTORIOUS BITCH, PIA...borderline harrassment bosses are all older women that never had kids (the ones that are also not married are the worst!). There are a lot of these type of women in my scientific field.

I've had some great male and female bosses over the years, but the ones with kids always seem the most empathetic.

Amen to this! I worked with the Feds for quite a few number of years. The childless women bosses were some of the worst! Just heartless. I finally left my last job to stay at home due to an extremely hostile, micromanaging, childless, unmarried witch of a boss. She was nasty to everyone..men and women. When I asked for some telecommute following a serious illness, I was told that "telecommuting isn't babysitting" . No kidding!! I was prepared to hire a sitter. I found the men in my agency much more accomodating.

I am going to start back to work soon after staying home for some 5 years and You know what? Every individual I'll be working with--men and women--has kids! HOoray!!!

My advice is to not advertise that your absences are due to kids, know your rights, keep good records of your notes, and if you find your situation impossible/ridiculous after a year, try to transfer. A nasty childless, unforgiving woman boss is simply the worst!!

[Anonymous]

Am I the only who finds it sad that we, as mothers, have to struggle so with work and children? Why do we have to "hide" so much? My daughter was the best thing that happened to me at age 43. Of course, I wanted to "talk" about her. Of course, I would take some leave if she were sick or I wanted to see her preschool show. Of course, I was tired. And, yes, I admitted that to a boss. Others were tired to for other reasons..taking care of elderly parents, sick siblings, etc. I find some much of this talk to "not advertise" that you are leaving for your kid sad. I mean I understand why we have to "cover up" our motherhood and our leaving in the workplace, but gee, you'd think we were out robbing banks!!

I took six months of maternity leave. She was my only child and I was going to make sure she had a good start in life. This is after I'd worked with colleagues for years who did nothing and I had to pick up THEIR slack. This was after my colleagues took 3 week vacations leaving me at work to cover for them. YOu damn bet that I was going to take EVERY BIT
OF LEAVE I NEEDED to take care of this miracle of mine. And I was a good worker!

I just thing after reading these posts, that working moms in this country still get the short end of the stick. What a shame.

[Anonymous]

To the PP who asked why mothers have to "hide" so much I would just say that talking about anything non-work related in great detail all the time is not good. I don't think women are expected to hide their children but when we're at work, we all need to be productive and keep things professional, especially with supervisors. I don't want to hear a ton about why anyone needs to take leave--you accrue and have the right to take leave and communicate in advance as much as possible when you need it. We all go through periods of life when we need more of it but the rest of the office doesn't need to hear about all the details, whatever they are (children, medical problem, grand hobby....)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a fomer Biglaw partner who supervised dozens of people and have three kids under 6, I echo what others have said

-- Do not constantly talk about your kids, and do not say you need time off to take care of them; just say you have an "appointment"
-- Be extremely flexible; have full time child care even if you are part time; the "I can't work Fridays because it is my day off and I don't have child care" doesn't cut it at the OP's level and career
-- Dont' be the "problem" that you boss has to deal with and think about constantly, whether or not it is a man or woman or he/she has children. Just do your job and be part of the team; if you are constantly asking for accommodations, you will not advance and your boss will not want you on high profile cases. Why should he/she have to worry about your situation and have to cover for you.

I know this sounds harsh, but is based on many years of watching how men and women deal with women with children. It feels quite liberating to be able to be honest. Too often this message gets lost in the we are a "work life balance" agency/firm.

So what can you expect from me? You can expect me to be very flexbile when I can (e.g., meetings, traveling, deadlines) and trust that when you say you are working from home you are actually working (and in my experience, working more efficiently than when you are in the office.)

FWIW

A former nonprofit manager here. Agree with a lot of what PP posted here, especially on being extremely flexible. While not all folks are able to pay for full-time care, if you can do so, then do it. If you cannot afford full-time care, then endeavor to be as flexible as you can be with your situation. Yes, some folks will take advantage, but many others will try to respect your time if they know you try to respect their deadlines. Sometimes I got a little annoyed about those "unpaid" hours, but, in the end, I rarely had to worry that folks saw me as scamming or taking liberties.

Regarding the comments about the women bosses. Wow. Bad bosses come in all stripes. My two worst bosses over the course of my career were women, but that does not make a pattern. I've had some delightful female colleagues and know women in other organizations who appear to be great bosses. Ditto for men.

[Anonymous]

And I would add, keep your trap shut about having to take time off if your child is sick, has a doctor's appointment, your childcare provider is ill, whatever. However, take out a billboard when your husband stays home with your sick child, does the doctor appointment, or takes time off to deal with kid related stuff. I had a douchebag of a supervisor who would tell me that my husband could take the day off to deal with our sick child so that I could come into the office for no other purpose than being in the office. I am a lawyer, I can work on everything I need to at home and my husband and I split up the day so that I go to my previously scheduled court hearings and then come home so that he can go into the office. He hated it when I would tell him that no I would be at home since I had worked in the morning and my husband had stayed home and that if he had a problem with my husband being home in the morning and needing to go to work in the afternoon then he could call my husband and the two of them could work out an appropriate schedule. Once my douchebag boss knew that my husband was "doing his share" he backed right off the subject. Once I figured that out, I broadcasted when my husband was home from work with our child.

[Anonymous]

O, so now we have to earn our right to be parents and have the flexibility to take time off when the kids are sick, or if there is somekind of emergency.
I did not know that.
Find a way to work for a man. No trouble.