School choice vs. attendance zones

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

The answer is to have UMC to wealthy parents and few poor kids to drag the scores down. That's it. That's the secret.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is already effectively happening for Langley.

Any student can request to be placed there if they would like to take Russian. Or if they are at one of the nearby IB schools and would instead like to take AP.

I think the current system works. Parents that are deeply committed to their children's education can switch to Langley if their child is not admitted to TJ. Why break something that is already working?

I agree. There is already a system in place for parents to move out of a low-performing high school. Literally any student in FCPS can attend Langley if they file the paperwork. There are even shuttle buses (cost effective!) that parents arrange to miminize the driving. I don't know if other schools have this, but I would imagine that as long as there is room at a particular high school, parents can find a way under the current system to get permission for their child to attend. (McLean is overcrowded and is obviously closed to transfers)

OP's idea is needlessly complex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Houston does this (and others). I think it's a reasonable idea. It's similar already to what FCPS has on a smaller scale (immersion, arts and science, etc magnets). Logistically there are challenges: buses, where people who don't engage go, second choice, hours, etc. etc.

But it gets around the loopholes that people are already finding.

+1 it’s a reasonable, bi-partisan idea. Both sides would have to sacrifice a little but the alternative is allowing half of the school system to keep failing without legitimately trying to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

Odd choice to include WS in that list. Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly are in a league of their own.
But anyway, it's obviously low ELL percentage that makes school successful. Those schools have some of the lowest ELL rates in the county. In fact WS has the second lowest which is why you may have thought WS peer groups are on the same level as Langley. Low ELL rate = high SOL pass rate = high US News rank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

The answer is to have UMC to wealthy parents and few poor kids to drag the scores down. That's it. That's the secret.

Or, what if more balanced schools pull the poor scores up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Houston does this (and others). I think it's a reasonable idea. It's similar already to what FCPS has on a smaller scale (immersion, arts and science, etc magnets). Logistically there are challenges: buses, where people who don't engage go, second choice, hours, etc. etc.

But it gets around the loopholes that people are already finding.

There are avenues for pupil placement, but to an even greater extent with the diversity of programs FCPS encourages people to seek out certain pyramids to live if you want those programs for your kids. You probably don’t move into the Langley district if you want IB, you don’t move into the Lake Braddock district if you oppose the secondary school model, you seek out the Fairfax district if you want the performing arts academy, etc.

We don’t need to emulate struggling city school districts (or the DCC in MCPS) with their complicated choice programs desperately attempting to retain MC and UMC families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Houston does this (and others). I think it's a reasonable idea. It's similar already to what FCPS has on a smaller scale (immersion, arts and science, etc magnets). Logistically there are challenges: buses, where people who don't engage go, second choice, hours, etc. etc.

But it gets around the loopholes that people are already finding.

There are avenues for pupil placement, but to an even greater extent with the diversity of programs FCPS encourages people to seek out certain pyramids to live if you want those programs for your kids. You probably don’t move into the Langley district if you want IB, you don’t move into the Lake Braddock district if you oppose the secondary school model, you seek out the Fairfax district if you want the performing arts academy, etc.

We don’t need to emulate struggling city school districts (or the DCC in MCPS) with their complicated choice programs desperately attempting to retain MC and UMC families.

Disagree. Where you buy shouldn’t determine what is available. Furthermore, a family that prefers one AP school over another AP school should not be told by the county which they must attend. The county doesn’t get to tell you which public park you are zoned for.

[Anonymous]

The idea of encouraging exponentially more vehicles cross-crossing the county to get kids to public schools is a non-starter.

Stop trying to make fetch happen, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb idea, OP.

You can look at Jefferson County, KY. When they instituted the type of system you want, following the court-ordered merger with Louisville schools, people left for privates and moved to Oldham County.

This isn’t about merging school systems. It’s about creating more choice within a school system. If a family isn’t admitted to the public school of their choice, they can go to private. Threatening to go private suggests wealthy families are currently hoarding certain public schools as if they’re private. In that case, go ahead and pay for private and leave the good publics for other families.

You are essentially asking for a merger of successful and less successful schools, the result of which will be to create uniformly mediocre schools.

And your analogy about hoarding schools as if they are private falls flat when the parents of the schools you covet cover most of the costs for all the public schools in the county.

You’ll find little if any support for what you’re proposing among county officials.

Paying taxes doesn’t make you entitled to a certain school. Try again

In Fairfax, it really should, absent a truly compelling need to change boundaries.

Sorry you have nothing better to do today.

But it doesn’t. Sorry the VA code isn’t on your side. Move to some tiny school district in New Jersey if you think that’s better.

Sounds like you’re the one who needs to move, because you aren’t going to get what you’re after here.

You can look at the “Opening of Schools” report and see how Reid touted FCPS having 7 of the top 10 high schools in the state. There’s no appetite for having 24 lousy ones.

Who’s to say school choice wouldn’t result in 10 of the top 10 schools in the state? I reject your premise.

Now you’re just entering sad attention whore territory.

I’m advocating for more kids to have opportunity. Try to refrain from insulting terms if you’re interested in a thoughtful discussion.

You haven’t said anything thoughtful. It’s the same old “if I can’t have what I want, let’s burn the whole house down” we regularly see from a few posters here.

+1. She beats the same drum frequently here. The tired talking points have been totally refuted, but here she is posting the same dribble, ignoring that even solidly blue Fairfax residents aren’t for the burn it all down approach to our schools.

There is a reason why republicans here are successful when they focus on the extreme left’s vision of what the school systems should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

The answer is to have UMC to wealthy parents and few poor kids to drag the scores down. That's it. That's the secret.

Or, what if more balanced schools pull the poor scores up?

The school's overall score may go up but those students would still struggle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Doesn't seem like it would work, logistically.

Say for instance, I live near Chantilly High and want my kid to go there. The school is oversubscribed already, so no reason to think that in your model, they wouldn't have considerably more apps than seats. So in a lottery, my kid who lives nearby could be assigned to a school that is further away, and since that's not my choice, now the county is on the hook for providing transportation to that school. Now the county would be stuck running different bus routes in the same neighborhood to send kids to potentially multiple different schools (keeping in mind that the next closest school is probably the oversubscribed Centreville High, and the nearly at capacity Westfield High).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

The answer is to have UMC to wealthy parents and few poor kids to drag the scores down. That's it. That's the secret.

Or, what if more balanced schools pull the poor scores up?

The school's overall score may go up [b]but those students would still struggle.[b]

Got a cite?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Doesn't seem like it would work, logistically.

Say for instance, I live near Chantilly High and want my kid to go there. The school is oversubscribed already, so no reason to think that in your model, they wouldn't have considerably more apps than seats. So in a lottery, my kid who lives nearby could be assigned to a school that is further away, and since that's not my choice, now the county is on the hook for providing transportation to that school. Now the county would be stuck running different bus routes in the same neighborhood to send kids to potentially multiple different schools (keeping in mind that the next closest school is probably the oversubscribed Centreville High, and the nearly at capacity Westfield High).

Stop the drivel of why it couldn’t happen and focus on why it could work. The phds at Gatehouse could work out bus routes. Run the same bus to Chantilly, Westfield and Centreville. If your kid applies to all three you could probably get one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb idea, OP.

You can look at Jefferson County, KY. When they instituted the type of system you want, following the court-ordered merger with Louisville schools, people left for privates and moved to Oldham County.

This isn’t about merging school systems. It’s about creating more choice within a school system. If a family isn’t admitted to the public school of their choice, they can go to private. Threatening to go private suggests wealthy families are currently hoarding certain public schools as if they’re private. In that case, go ahead and pay for private and leave the good publics for other families.

You are essentially asking for a merger of successful and less successful schools, the result of which will be to create uniformly mediocre schools.

And your analogy about hoarding schools as if they are private falls flat when the parents of the schools you covet cover most of the costs for all the public schools in the county.

You’ll find little if any support for what you’re proposing among county officials.

Paying taxes doesn’t make you entitled to a certain school. Try again

In Fairfax, it really should, absent a truly compelling need to change boundaries.

Sorry you have nothing better to do today.

But it doesn’t. Sorry the VA code isn’t on your side. Move to some tiny school district in New Jersey if you think that’s better.

Sounds like you’re the one who needs to move, because you aren’t going to get what you’re after here.

You can look at the “Opening of Schools” report and see how Reid touted FCPS having 7 of the top 10 high schools in the state. There’s no appetite for having 24 lousy ones.

Who’s to say school choice wouldn’t result in 10 of the top 10 schools in the state? I reject your premise.

Now you’re just entering sad attention whore territory.

I’m advocating for more kids to have opportunity. Try to refrain from insulting terms if you’re interested in a thoughtful discussion.

You haven’t said anything thoughtful. It’s the same old “if I can’t have what I want, let’s burn the whole house down” we regularly see from a few posters here.

+1. She beats the same drum frequently here. The tired talking points have been totally refuted, but here she is posting the same dribble, ignoring that even solidly blue Fairfax residents aren’t for the burn it all down approach to our schools.

There is a reason why republicans here are successful when they focus on the extreme left’s vision of what the school systems should be.

Dems: Don’t go on equity walks if you wouldn’t want your kid going to school with poor kids. Don’t pretend to be blue- be blue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Doesn't seem like it would work, logistically.

Say for instance, I live near Chantilly High and want my kid to go there. The school is oversubscribed already, so no reason to think that in your model, they wouldn't have considerably more apps than seats. So in a lottery, my kid who lives nearby could be assigned to a school that is further away, and since that's not my choice, now the county is on the hook for providing transportation to that school. Now the county would be stuck running different bus routes in the same neighborhood to send kids to potentially multiple different schools (keeping in mind that the next closest school is probably the oversubscribed Centreville High, and the nearly at capacity Westfield High).

OP doesn’t expect the county to provide transportation.

I wonder if OP isn’t one of the KAA families looking for others to extol the virtues of neighborhood schools at a time when it’s still up in the air as to whether it might possibly end up a county-wide magnet.