My DD wants to avoid applying to most competitive top 25 "usual suspects" colleges - which LACs considered part of T'25?

[Anonymous]

We may not hear back from the Swarthmore undergrad/JHU grad school poster. Granted Swarthmore for undergrad would be a safer, more intimate experience than JHU.

OP: Here is a combined ranking of National Universities & LACs based just on undergraduate factors. This is the last time that the Wall Street Journal & The Times Higher Education published such a ranking:

https://timeshighereducation.com/rankings/united-states/2022#!/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/scores

The highest ranked LAC is Amherst College at #22 followed by Williams College at #23.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD has good stats (1500+ SAT, A/A- grades, top rigor) but doesn't want to compete for what she calls top 20-25. Is this the list to avoid? Where do LACs fit in?

Top 25 National Unis:

1 Princeton University
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3 Harvard University
4 Stanford University
4 Yale University
6 University of Chicago
7 Duke University
7 Johns Hopkins University
7 Northwestern University
7 University of Pennsylvania
11 California Institute of Technology
12 Cornell University
13 Brown University
13 Dartmouth College
15 Columbia University
15 University of California, Berkeley
17 Rice University
17 University of California, Los Angeles
17 Vanderbilt University
20 Carnegie Mellon University
20 University of Michigan—Ann Arbor
20 University of Notre Dame
20 Washington University in St. Louis
24 Emory University
24 Georgetown University

Top LACs:

1 Williams
2 Amherst
3 US Naval Academy
4 Swarthmore
5 US Air Force Academy
5 Bowdoin

Fake post. No high a high achieving student would actively avoid the top schools in the country

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD has good stats (1500+ SAT, A/A- grades, top rigor) but doesn't want to compete for what she calls top 20-25. Is this the list to avoid? Where do LACs fit in?

Top 25 National Unis:

1 Princeton University
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3 Harvard University
4 Stanford University
4 Yale University
6 University of Chicago
7 Duke University
7 Johns Hopkins University
7 Northwestern University
7 University of Pennsylvania
11 California Institute of Technology
12 Cornell University
13 Brown University
13 Dartmouth College
15 Columbia University
15 University of California, Berkeley
17 Rice University
17 University of California, Los Angeles
17 Vanderbilt University
20 Carnegie Mellon University
20 University of Michigan—Ann Arbor
20 University of Notre Dame
20 Washington University in St. Louis
24 Emory University
24 Georgetown University

Top LACs:

1 Williams
2 Amherst
3 US Naval Academy
4 Swarthmore
5 US Air Force Academy
5 Bowdoin

Fake post. No high a high achieving student would actively avoid the top schools in the country

Maybe, maybe not.

Certainly would be more believable if OP shared more specifics regarding reasons & preferences. But, I do think that some students just don't want to enter what may be viewed as an intensely competitive process.

[Anonymous]

Love this! We should all have the confidence to zig where others zag and avoid crowds. Popularity in this case does not correlate with quality, so why put yourself through the indignity of competing with hordes of diehard grinders to fight for a scarce spot?

There are so many other high quality and less widely popular options to explore without the intense mania to elbow your way in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For such a goal, it might make sense to avoid the most selective colleges. As a tool, this site provides Student Selectivity Ranks for colleges and universities together:

https://wallethub.com/edu/e/college-rankings/40750

Swarthmore, for example, placed 19th nationally by selectivity.

This list is crap. It does not factor in ED; it is just admit rates. The more the class is filled ED, the lower the admit rate. Chicago is 4 on this list; its ED admit rate is estimated at 40%. Just ask us what the admit rates mean; we’ll tell you. Once again, Swat is a way tougher admit than Chicago…

Your comments are crap.

The WalletHub methodology used 30 factors, not just overall admit rates.

U Chicago is a better school than Swarthmore because of the greater number of brilliant students and the presence of graduate students & programs. However, Swarthmore & U Chicago are similar in that they both encourage intellectualism among their students. Swarthmore is tiny, and that is a weakness due to fewer perspectives and less varied input.

The “student selectivity rank” is solely admit rates. Look it up yourself, cite next time you post, and no need for an apology: I know you are trying your best.

Please note that the WalletHub Student Selectivity Rank considers acceptance rate, standardized scoring profiles and high school class standing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD has good stats (1500+ SAT, A/A- grades, top rigor) but doesn't want to compete for what she calls top 20-25. Is this the list to avoid? Where do LACs fit in?

Top 25 National Unis:

1 Princeton University
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3 Harvard University
4 Stanford University
4 Yale University
6 University of Chicago
7 Duke University
7 Johns Hopkins University
7 Northwestern University
7 University of Pennsylvania
11 California Institute of Technology
12 Cornell University
13 Brown University
13 Dartmouth College
15 Columbia University
15 University of California, Berkeley
17 Rice University
17 University of California, Los Angeles
17 Vanderbilt University
20 Carnegie Mellon University
20 University of Michigan—Ann Arbor
20 University of Notre Dame
20 Washington University in St. Louis
24 Emory University
24 Georgetown University

Top LACs:

1 Williams
2 Amherst
3 US Naval Academy
4 Swarthmore
5 US Air Force Academy
5 Bowdoin

I respect the motivation, but this seems to be reductionist. Instead of what she doesn’t want, what does she want?

For example, USC and NYU are difficult admits, but aren’t considered grinder schools. Conversely, UW-Seattle is an easier admit, but known for being academically rigorous.

What does she want from her college experience? I’d consider giving that a lot of consideration, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Love this! We should all have the confidence to zig where others zag and avoid crowds. Popularity in this case does not correlate with quality, so why put yourself through the indignity of competing with hordes of diehard grinders to fight for a scarce spot?

There are so many other high quality and less widely popular options to explore without the intense mania to elbow your way in.

same

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very odd that some LAC supporters criticize Johns Hopkins University. JHU has, by far, the largest research & development (R&D) budget of any US school and probably of any school in the world. There is no LAC that is even close to JHU or to any Top 15 university excluding Dartmouth College & Brown University--an other of which are over-rated.

If LACs were ranked with National Universities, none--according to the Wall Street Journal & The Times Higher Education published rankings, would fall among the top 20 schools.

I’m a graduate of both Swarthmore and of JHU (for grad school). From my perspective, there’s no comparison: everything about the educational experience at Swarthmore was superior.

Realize that you are comparing a grad school experience to an undergraduate school experience so I doubt that you can compare the two experiences on an equal basis.

Regardless, nobody is dissing Swarthmore College--its a demanding, small school. Would be a very different experience from attending a National University as an undergraduate student, although Swarthmore would share some similarities with U Chicago.

If you want to continue, then what did you major in at Swarthmore & what did you study in grad school at JHU.

I would rather not give the specifics of my undergraduate major and graduate degree — but I doubled majored at Swarthmore in the humanities, and my MA from Hopkins was also a humanities degree.

I may have a little more insight into the undergrad experience at JHU due to the nature of my coursework — I took a few classes that were open to both undergrads and graduate students, and served as a TA in my department. Actually, at 22, I taught the class to which I was assigned — everything from choosing the texts, assigning and gr

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I’m pp but sent too soon…anyway, I assigned and graded everything and made my own exams. I had just graduated college and, though I put everything into preparing for and teaching my class well, I sometimes wondered what my students’ parents thought about lowly me, teaching their kids.

I received a good education at both Swarthmore and Hopkins, but the intellectual experience of studying at Swarthmore was, to me, incomparable to what I found at Hopkins. At Swarthmore, my professors were not only incredibly accomplished, but were excellent teachers. They knew my name. The students were engaged and passionate but in general seemed driven much more by their own high expectations of themselves rather than any competitiveness with each other. I don’t think I realized quite how excellent my undergraduate education was until I had something to which to compare it.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t trade the undergrad classroom experience I had at my SLAC for anything and am a huge fan of LAC’s. However, it’s not for everyone and there’s a lot to be said for people who navigate their way academically in bigger university environments and take full advantage of the opportunities there. There’s no one “right” undergrad academic experience.

[Anonymous]

Wait -- the military academies aren't LACs, are they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, I’m pp but sent too soon…anyway, I assigned and graded everything and made my own exams. I had just graduated college and, though I put everything into preparing for and teaching my class well, I sometimes wondered what my students’ parents thought about lowly me, teaching their kids.

I received a good education at both Swarthmore and Hopkins, but the intellectual experience of studying at Swarthmore was, to me, incomparable to what I found at Hopkins. At Swarthmore, my professors were not only incredibly accomplished, but were excellent teachers. They knew my name. The students were engaged and passionate but in general seemed driven much more by their own high expectations of themselves rather than any competitiveness with each other. I don’t think I realized quite how excellent my undergraduate education was until I had something to which to compare it.

My DD is a senior at Swat, and this has been her experience. She's an engineering major, and she has received an amazing amount of support and mentoring from her professors. She had a research opportunity that culminated in her name being added to a published paper, and her professor invited her and a classmate to Belgium to present at a conference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait -- the military academies aren't LACs, are they?

They are their own kind of animal, but they fit in better with LACs for the purpose of rankings because they focus on undergraduate education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait -- the military academies aren't LACs, are they?

They are their own kind of animal, but they fit in better with LACs for the purpose of rankings because they focus on undergraduate education.

So do many nat’l unis. The military academies fit in with national univ rankings because they also have double the students of a SLAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For such a goal, it might make sense to avoid the most selective colleges. As a tool, this site provides Student Selectivity Ranks for colleges and universities together:

https://wallethub.com/edu/e/college-rankings/40750

Swarthmore, for example, placed 19th nationally by selectivity.

This list is crap. It does not factor in ED; it is just admit rates. The more the class is filled ED, the lower the admit rate. Chicago is 4 on this list; its ED admit rate is estimated at 40%. Just ask us what the admit rates mean; we’ll tell you. Once again, Swat is a way tougher admit than Chicago…

Your comments are crap.

The WalletHub methodology used 30 factors, not just overall admit rates.

U Chicago is a better school than Swarthmore because of the greater number of brilliant students and the presence of graduate students & programs. However, Swarthmore & U Chicago are similar in that they both encourage intellectualism among their students. Swarthmore is tiny, and that is a weakness due to fewer perspectives and less varied input.

The “student selectivity rank” is solely admit rates. Look it up yourself, cite next time you post, and no need for an apology: I know you are trying your best.

Please note that the WalletHub Student Selectivity Rank considers acceptance rate, standardized scoring profiles and high school class standing.

1)cite
2) any selectivity ranking not factoring ED rounds, which lower admit rates, is complete crap.

Are you being paid by wallet hub? I notice those posts usually come at a certain point of night.