When Did Having Healthcare become a Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably appropriate to mention, there were roads *before* there were taxes.

Our interstate highway system has been crucial to establishing the US as a thriving economy. We make choices as a society based on our values and what we believe will benefit the common good. We express these choices through collective action via government. Always have. Always will.

Until today, yes. But today ends our American experiment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How do you feel about public schools, OP?
I’m guessing you are also like:
Why should I pay to educate someone else’s child?
Why should I pay for roads I don’t drive on?
Why should I pay for fire stations that will likely never benefit me?
Stop enslaving me to pay for schools, roads, and emergency services I don’t use, waah waah waah

I’m guessing if a poor person breaks their arm, you want them to die of sepsis? Too bad for them, huh.


No, I accept that the democratic process and policies of our lawmakers have led to public schools. I would vote for public schools any day and support paying for them. I understand that roads are fundamental to the economy and support them. Fire stations - the same. I would even support a bond measure to raise money (weirdly some municipalities rely on volunteers to put out fires, yet provide free housing to illegal immigrants). I am not opposed to some level of healthcare, but what is provided on medicaid is far above what I would support. Neighborhood clinics for preventive health and life, limb, and eyesight emergent care seems appropriate - and some program for children who need care and treatment for illnesses. Definitely not some insurance scheme that enriches for-profit health systems.

Okay. So the title of your thread is misleading. You obviously believe in some healthcare as a right. So what level of care do you consider "above what you would support"? Do you believe that Medicare is an "insurance scheme"? Please cite the for-profit health systems that are being enriched by Medicare and how that enrichment is taking place. Sounds like you may be worried about fraud (which definitely needs to be prosecuted).

if we are going to talk about fraud in the system, then it should start with Senator Rick Scott.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How do you feel about public schools, OP?
I’m guessing you are also like:
Why should I pay to educate someone else’s child?
Why should I pay for roads I don’t drive on?
Why should I pay for fire stations that will likely never benefit me?
Stop enslaving me to pay for schools, roads, and emergency services I don’t use, waah waah waah

I’m guessing if a poor person breaks their arm, you want them to die of sepsis? Too bad for them, huh.


No, I accept that the democratic process and policies of our lawmakers have led to public schools. I would vote for public schools any day and support paying for them. I understand that roads are fundamental to the economy and support them. Fire stations - the same. I would even support a bond measure to raise money (weirdly some municipalities rely on volunteers to put out fires, yet provide free housing to illegal immigrants). I am not opposed to some level of healthcare, but what is provided on medicaid is far above what I would support. Neighborhood clinics for preventive health and life, limb, and eyesight emergent care seems appropriate - and some program for children who need care and treatment for illnesses. Definitely not some insurance scheme that enriches for-profit health systems.

Okay. So the title of your thread is misleading. You obviously believe in some healthcare as a right. So what level of care do you consider "above what you would support"? Do you believe that Medicare is an "insurance scheme"? Please cite the for-profit health systems that are being enriched by Medicare and how that enrichment is taking place. Sounds like you may be worried about fraud (which definitely needs to be prosecuted).

I should have distinguished between medicare and medicaid - medicare, since beneficiaries pay for it, is very different than medicaid going to able-bodied adults and immigrants. It is not a right, but a program. It could be cut, and there would be electoral consequences. The US taxpayer should not be providing government backed health insurance to immigrants either legal or illegal. Visas should be revoked if a visa holder applies for government paid-for insurance. Illegal immigrants should receive no insurance like benefits. They do not receive medicaid, but states that provide illegals their version of medicaid get to offset the money they spend to do this with federal matching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you feel about public schools, OP?
I’m guessing you are also like:
Why should I pay to educate someone else’s child?
Why should I pay for roads I don’t drive on?
Why should I pay for fire stations that will likely never benefit me?
Stop enslaving me to pay for schools, roads, and emergency services I don’t use, waah waah waah

I’m guessing if a poor person breaks their arm, you want them to die of sepsis? Too bad for them, huh.

No, I accept that the democratic process and policies of our lawmakers have led to public schools. I would vote for public schools any day and support paying for them. I understand that roads are fundamental to the economy and support them. Fire stations - the same. I would even support a bond measure to raise money (weirdly some municipalities rely on volunteers to put out fires, yet provide free housing to illegal immigrants). I am not opposed to some level of healthcare, but what is provided on medicaid is far above what I would support. Neighborhood clinics for preventive health and life, limb, and eyesight emergent care seems appropriate - and some program for children who need care and treatment for illnesses. Definitely not some insurance scheme that enriches for-profit health systems.

Ok but you didn’t say that.
We can agree that providing healthcare is good for society.
There is a difference between criticizing and wanting to change the system so that is is not longer the “sick care” grift is much different than just saying no one has the right to healthcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since the Declaration of Independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

As civilization progresses, we get more things and now we understand that the pursuit of Happiness doesn’t happen if you are suffering from never ending physical pain. We can also do something about it.

The declaration doesn’t say we all have to suffer in order to get these things, but that they are unalienable rights.

When you know better, you do better and that my friend is the history of the living document. the standards of life and happiness change with the times. DO you think in 1776 an IVF petri dish would be considered a life? No, because they couldn’t even imagine it. Things change dude.

The Declaration of Independence proclaimed rights to be free from government intrusion in one's life not that that same government must do something for a person.

True. Democrats can’t read straight.

But yet the government is now dictating reproductive rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America elected Trump to Make America Great Again. Barack Obama did NOTHING to help get the poisons out of our food. At least Trump got FORMER Democrat RFK on board to do something productive.

Obama did NOTHING.

He tried, but the GOP voted down the bills his white house sponsored to do these things. And if you honestly think Trump and RFK,jr are going to do ANYTHING for you, I don't know what to tell you.

Again, neither Barack nor Joe did anything to help get the poisons out of our food.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How do you feel about public schools, OP?
I’m guessing you are also like:
Why should I pay to educate someone else’s child?
Why should I pay for roads I don’t drive on?
Why should I pay for fire stations that will likely never benefit me?
Stop enslaving me to pay for schools, roads, and emergency services I don’t use, waah waah waah

I’m guessing if a poor person breaks their arm, you want them to die of sepsis? Too bad for them, huh.


No, I accept that the democratic process and policies of our lawmakers have led to public schools. I would vote for public schools any day and support paying for them. I understand that roads are fundamental to the economy and support them. Fire stations - the same. I would even support a bond measure to raise money (weirdly some municipalities rely on volunteers to put out fires, yet provide free housing to illegal immigrants). I am not opposed to some level of healthcare, but what is provided on medicaid is far above what I would support. Neighborhood clinics for preventive health and life, limb, and eyesight emergent care seems appropriate - and some program for children who need care and treatment for illnesses. Definitely not some insurance scheme that enriches for-profit health systems.

Okay. So the title of your thread is misleading. You obviously believe in some healthcare as a right. So what level of care do you consider "above what you would support"? Do you believe that Medicare is an "insurance scheme"? Please cite the for-profit health systems that are being enriched by Medicare and how that enrichment is taking place. Sounds like you may be worried about fraud (which definitely needs to be prosecuted).

I should have distinguished between medicare and medicaid - medicare, since beneficiaries pay for it, is very different than medicaid going to able-bodied adults and immigrants. It is not a right, but a program. It could be cut, and there would be electoral consequences. The US taxpayer should not be providing government backed health insurance to immigrants either legal or illegal. Visas should be revoked if a visa holder applies for government paid-for insurance. Illegal immigrants should receive no insurance like benefits. They do not receive medicaid, but states that provide illegals their version of medicaid get to offset the money they spend to do this with federal matching.

It is being cut, and there are no consequences.

There are no benefits of this kind going to illegal immigrants.

For legal immigrants, if they have naturalized and are working and paying into Social Security and have achieved their minimim quarters, then why wouldn't they be able to receive benefits from the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America elected Trump to Make America Great Again. Barack Obama did NOTHING to help get the poisons out of our food. At least Trump got FORMER Democrat RFK on board to do something productive.

Obama did NOTHING.

He tried, but the GOP voted down the bills his white house sponsored to do these things. And if you honestly think Trump and RFK,jr are going to do ANYTHING for you, I don't know what to tell you.

Again, neither Barack nor Joe did anything to help get the poisons out of our food.

They tried. GOP shot them down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you feel about public schools, OP?
I’m guessing you are also like:
Why should I pay to educate someone else’s child?
Why should I pay for roads I don’t drive on?
Why should I pay for fire stations that will likely never benefit me?
Stop enslaving me to pay for schools, roads, and emergency services I don’t use, waah waah waah

I’m guessing if a poor person breaks their arm, you want them to die of sepsis? Too bad for them, huh.

No, I accept that the democratic process and policies of our lawmakers have led to public schools. I would vote for public schools any day and support paying for them. I understand that roads are fundamental to the economy and support them. Fire stations - the same. I would even support a bond measure to raise money (weirdly some municipalities rely on volunteers to put out fires, yet provide free housing to illegal immigrants). I am not opposed to some level of healthcare, but what is provided on medicaid is far above what I would support. Neighborhood clinics for preventive health and life, limb, and eyesight emergent care seems appropriate - and some program for children who need care and treatment for illnesses. Definitely not some insurance scheme that enriches for-profit health systems.

So I agree with you. I think there should be a network of free preventive care in ten form of walk in health clinics and telehealth services (telehealth in the more rural areas where the population doesn’t support a clinic as well as to triage issues), maternal and pediatric care, an emergent care. I have been wondering if we did away with the extent of what Medicaid offers would we be able to provide universal breath? Basically the idea is like social security - everyone gets something even if it’s not enough to fully fund retirement.

[Anonymous]

It's a right because we have the ability and the prosperity as a nation to provide it to our citizens. It is immoral not to provide it because some of us would rather poor and brown people die than see our taxes pay for their healthcare.

One of the things that made this country great was guaranteeing a right to education. We are now in a prosperous enough time to guarantee access to basic and preventive healthcare, and we should, especially if MAGA wants to keep squawking about being the greatest country on earth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How do you feel about public schools, OP?
I’m guessing you are also like:
Why should I pay to educate someone else’s child?
Why should I pay for roads I don’t drive on?
Why should I pay for fire stations that will likely never benefit me?
Stop enslaving me to pay for schools, roads, and emergency services I don’t use, waah waah waah

I’m guessing if a poor person breaks their arm, you want them to die of sepsis? Too bad for them, huh.


No, I accept that the democratic process and policies of our lawmakers have led to public schools. I would vote for public schools any day and support paying for them. I understand that roads are fundamental to the economy and support them. Fire stations - the same. I would even support a bond measure to raise money (weirdly some municipalities rely on volunteers to put out fires, yet provide free housing to illegal immigrants). I am not opposed to some level of healthcare, but what is provided on medicaid is far above what I would support. Neighborhood clinics for preventive health and life, limb, and eyesight emergent care seems appropriate - and some program for children who need care and treatment for illnesses. Definitely not some insurance scheme that enriches for-profit health systems.

Okay. So the title of your thread is misleading. You obviously believe in some healthcare as a right. So what level of care do you consider "above what you would support"? Do you believe that Medicare is an "insurance scheme"? Please cite the for-profit health systems that are being enriched by Medicare and how that enrichment is taking place. Sounds like you may be worried about fraud (which definitely needs to be prosecuted).

I should have distinguished between medicare and medicaid - medicare, since beneficiaries pay for it, is very different than medicaid going to able-bodied adults and immigrants. It is not a right, but a program. It could be cut, and there would be electoral consequences. The US taxpayer should not be providing government backed health insurance to immigrants either legal or illegal. Visas should be revoked if a visa holder applies for government paid-for insurance. Illegal immigrants should receive no insurance like benefits. They do not receive medicaid, but states that provide illegals their version of medicaid get to offset the money they spend to do this with federal matching.

It is being cut, and there are no consequences.

There are no benefits of this kind going to illegal immigrants.

For legal immigrants, if they have naturalized and are working and paying into Social Security and have achieved their minimim quarters, then why wouldn't they be able to receive benefits from the system?

Wow talk about a false argument. Undocumented immigrants can not use Medicaid or Medicare. They just can’t. So you have no argument.

Let’s argue about what type of cheese the moon is made of. This would be a much more honest and productive use of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you feel about public schools, OP?
I’m guessing you are also like:
Why should I pay to educate someone else’s child?
Why should I pay for roads I don’t drive on?
Why should I pay for fire stations that will likely never benefit me?
Stop enslaving me to pay for schools, roads, and emergency services I don’t use, waah waah waah

I’m guessing if a poor person breaks their arm, you want them to die of sepsis? Too bad for them, huh.

No, I accept that the democratic process and policies of our lawmakers have led to public schools. I would vote for public schools any day and support paying for them. I understand that roads are fundamental to the economy and support them. Fire stations - the same. I would even support a bond measure to raise money (weirdly some municipalities rely on volunteers to put out fires, yet provide free housing to illegal immigrants). I am not opposed to some level of healthcare, but what is provided on medicaid is far above what I would support. Neighborhood clinics for preventive health and life, limb, and eyesight emergent care seems appropriate - and some program for children who need care and treatment for illnesses. Definitely not some insurance scheme that enriches for-profit health systems.

So I agree with you. I think there should be a network of free preventive care in ten form of walk in health clinics and telehealth services (telehealth in the more rural areas where the population doesn’t support a clinic as well as to triage issues), maternal and pediatric care, an emergent care. I have been wondering if we did away with the extent of what Medicaid offers would we be able to provide universal breath? Basically the idea is like social security - everyone gets something even if it’s not enough to fully fund retirement.

What things does medicaid currently cover that you think it should not cover?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America elected Trump to Make America Great Again. Barack Obama did NOTHING to help get the poisons out of our food. At least Trump got FORMER Democrat RFK on board to do something productive.

Obama did NOTHING.

He tried, but the GOP voted down the bills his white house sponsored to do these things. And if you honestly think Trump and RFK,jr are going to do ANYTHING for you, I don't know what to tell you.

Again, neither Barack nor Joe did anything to help get the poisons out of our food.

Neither did Donald his first term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America elected Trump to Make America Great Again. Barack Obama did NOTHING to help get the poisons out of our food. At least Trump got FORMER Democrat RFK on board to do something productive.

Obama did NOTHING.

He tried, but the GOP voted down the bills his white house sponsored to do these things. And if you honestly think Trump and RFK,jr are going to do ANYTHING for you, I don't know what to tell you.

Again, neither Barack nor Joe did anything to help get the poisons out of our food.

+1 Thank God for RFK Jr. Unlike liberal wimps, he has the guts to swim in feces-infused water. You think some sh*t? is going to scare him off? No way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since healthcare must be performed by others and has to be paid for, how is it a right? If it is a right, what does that look like? Free neighborhood clinics or cancer treatment at MD Anderson?

Rights are whatever a country chooses to extend to its citizens. But your issues have nothing to do with rights or costs. Your issues are with your version of morality and justice. Why should your insurance premiums cover little Suzie? If only she looked both ways when she got off the school bus she wouldn't have been hit by that car. Or if only Bill had given up red meat years earlier, he wouldn't have had that heart attack? Why should I contribute two pennies to cover that? Or what about Ann? Her parents knew there was a history of breast cancer in that family. They never should have had children to begin with. You don't want your penny to cover Ann's parents poor decisions. They never should have reproduced. Ann needs to die. And so on and so forth.

But you absolutely insist every American pays 100s of thousands, even millions, for your diseases and injuries, because you did everything right. Your family has no history of anything. You never touched a hamburger. You've never had a beer. You exercise twice a day. And you are very serious about your yoga practice and your vegetarian diet. Right?

We are a nation of 340 million people with a $28 trillion GDP. We can easily afford universal health care like every other developed country on Earth. Think of all the jobs that were never created because people are too scared to start companies and lose their corporate health insurance. Think how cheap health care would be if everyone could see a primary doctor and get on a statin before presenting at the ER with a heart attack. But Republicans believe only those with corporate jobs and a freakishly healthy family tree should have access to health care.

If you believe in publicly supported fire and police departments, not to mention schools and roads, I don't see how in principle you can be against health insurance for everyone. But as always with Republicans, the cruelty is the point.