Are the ivies overrated? Perhaps too much coddling?

[Anonymous]

My kid is at a top school from a not so great high school. His biggest observation is how helpless some of the students are. Smart but they freak out over the littlest obstacles and can’t really problem solve. No street smarts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one is disputing that there are super bright people at ivies, it’s more the idea that the dimwits there (and there are definitely plenty of dimwits there) are more capable than the top students at lot lots of other (less rich, less privileged) schools.

There are a much, much greater number of dimwits at non-Ivies...and more as you keep going down the rankings.

My brother was a complete idiot and on a full ride at an ~330 ranked university....between the 4 roommates they didn't have a 4.0 first quarter...didn't even pick their books up (that were paid for).

The liklihood of finding a dimwit is much greater not on an Ivy/T10/20 campus. These arguments are so stupid....everyone worked with that dumb Ivy grad...

look, I get it...we always make fun of our kid when he does something stupid...'Ivy grad' and joke about it with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I went to East Flyover State U and ended up in a top professional school with lots of ivy grads. They were okay-everyone in the class was pretty smart but they were not smarter than the non ivy students at all. They were more coddled (and much richer) on average but there were of course exceptions.

I’ve had the same experience.

Sour grapes

I do think people who didn’t go, or get into, ivies are a bit sour, but not in the way that you think. I think people are sour because, especially if they graduated from a top five or ten public, they feel like they were better trained but society still sees them as a notch below Ivy League grads who benefit from societal presuppositions about Ivy schools. And, as Forbes point out, employers are starting to catch on to that. The problem with private schools is that they rely too much on donors. As such, they can’t totally go too hard on their students. Public schools will flunk you, and that builds character and puts a little chip on students’ shoulders. Privates are afraid to flunk their students.

Omg. NOT. They expel, suspend and flunk them all of the time if they are up to snuff. Where do you people come up with your theories?

Ted Turner billionaire founder of CNN and TBS was asked to leave Brown during his senior year. Apparently Turner, who was studying economics was suspended twice. One of those times was for getting caught with a girl in his room.

Robert Smigel of SNL originally went to Cornell for Dentistry but knew he never really wanted to be a Dentist. He said in one interview that he failed so badly at pre-Dentistry classes that his parents felt sorry for him and let him transfer to NYU to study communications.

I’m not talking about repercussions of bad behavior; I’m strictly talking about academics. A big reason ivies coddle their students is they want them to have a great learning experience, which leads to more donation when they graduate. That’s why us news used to have endowment as a metric, but not anymore. Now there’s more emphasis on social mobility which gives us a sense of the actual training they get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to East Flyover State U and ended up in a top professional school with lots of ivy grads. They were okay-everyone in the class was pretty smart but they were not smarter than the non ivy students at all. They were more coddled (and much richer) on average but there were of course exceptions.

I’ve had the same experience.

Sour grapes

I do think people who didn’t go, or get into, ivies are a bit sour, but not in the way that you think. I think people are sour because, especially if they graduated from a top five or ten public, they feel like they were better trained but society still sees them as a notch below Ivy League grads who benefit from societal presuppositions about Ivy schools. And, as Forbes point out, employers are starting to catch on to that. The problem with private schools is that they rely too much on donors. As such, they can’t totally go too hard on their students. Public schools will flunk you, and that builds character and puts a little chip on students’ shoulders. Privates are afraid to flunk their students.

Omg. NOT. They expel, suspend and flunk them all of the time if they are up to snuff. Where do you people come up with your theories?

Ted Turner billionaire founder of CNN and TBS was asked to leave Brown during his senior year. Apparently Turner, who was studying economics was suspended twice. One of those times was for getting caught with a girl in his room.

Robert Smigel of SNL originally went to Cornell for Dentistry but knew he never really wanted to be a Dentist. He said in one interview that he failed so badly at pre-Dentistry classes that his parents felt sorry for him and let him transfer to NYU to study communications.

Turner's expulsion happened like 60 years ago and had nothing to do with academics.

My kid knows 3 that were expelled/suspended at her Ivy this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a HYPSM and working their butt off. No coddling there. Demanding academics!

The Ivy is hard so my is not being coddled!! Please. Academic rigor and institutional coddling can absolutely coexist. Demanding excellence in narrowly defined academic areas while failing to develop students' resilience, independence, and ability to function in less structured environments seems exactly what many on DCUM are looking for in Ivies (probably what they don't like about Cornell) and other private schools. Coddling seems exactly what people are looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is disputing that there are super bright people at ivies, it’s more the idea that the dimwits there (and there are definitely plenty of dimwits there) are more capable than the top students at lot lots of other (less rich, less privileged) schools.

There are a much, much greater number of dimwits at non-Ivies...and more as you keep going down the rankings.

My brother was a complete idiot and on a full ride at an ~330 ranked university....between the 4 roommates they didn't have a 4.0 first quarter...didn't even pick their books up (that were paid for).

The liklihood of finding a dimwit is much greater not on an Ivy/T10/20 campus. These arguments are so stupid....everyone worked with that dumb Ivy grad...

look, I get it...we always make fun of our kid when he does something stupid...'Ivy grad' and joke about it with him.

The number of dimwits I knew from Arizona State...I can't even...lol so true

[Anonymous]

I wish my kid was coddled more, not really, but that is so false. There may be some plush privates that do that but it’s not the Ivies. Most get humbled real quick and the expectations are very high. There is no hand holding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish my kid was coddled more, not really, but that is so false. There may be some plush privates that do that but it’s not the Ivies. Most get humbled real quick and the expectations are very high. There is no hand holding.

+1 my kid lives in the library

[Anonymous]

I am sensing a lot of Ivy waitlist dreams are dying. It will get better, trust me. You won’t always be this angry.

[Anonymous]

Stop watching Fox News. Good grief

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is disputing that there are super bright people at ivies, it’s more the idea that the dimwits there (and there are definitely plenty of dimwits there) are more capable than the top students at lot lots of other (less rich, less privileged) schools.

There are a much, much greater number of dimwits at non-Ivies...and more as you keep going down the rankings.

My brother was a complete idiot and on a full ride at an ~330 ranked university....between the 4 roommates they didn't have a 4.0 first quarter...didn't even pick their books up (that were paid for).

The liklihood of finding a dimwit is much greater not on an Ivy/T10/20 campus. These arguments are so stupid....everyone worked with that dumb Ivy grad...

look, I get it...we always make fun of our kid when he does something stupid...'Ivy grad' and joke about it with him.

But that misses the fact that there are so many schools in this county, many of them with crazy smart kids, though apparently not your brother.

I would pick a top 25% grad of a state flagship over a generic ivy grad any day of the week. (And that is backed up by my experience in professional school admissions.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is disputing that there are super bright people at ivies, it’s more the idea that the dimwits there (and there are definitely plenty of dimwits there) are more capable than the top students at lot lots of other (less rich, less privileged) schools.

There are a much, much greater number of dimwits at non-Ivies...and more as you keep going down the rankings.

My brother was a complete idiot and on a full ride at an ~330 ranked university....between the 4 roommates they didn't have a 4.0 first quarter...didn't even pick their books up (that were paid for).

The liklihood of finding a dimwit is much greater not on an Ivy/T10/20 campus. These arguments are so stupid....everyone worked with that dumb Ivy grad...

look, I get it...we always make fun of our kid when he does something stupid...'Ivy grad' and joke about it with him.

But that misses the fact that there are so many schools in this county, many of them with crazy smart kids, though apparently not your brother.

I would pick a top 25% grad of a state flagship over a generic ivy grad any day of the week. (And that is backed up by my experience in professional school admissions.)

This is a topsy-turian environment right now and higher education is getting smacked around.. I think privates might be in a better position to weather the funding cuts for research and able to still offer opportunities that will just not be available at the diminished funding available for public education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is disputing that there are super bright people at ivies, it’s more the idea that the dimwits there (and there are definitely plenty of dimwits there) are more capable than the top students at lot lots of other (less rich, less privileged) schools.

There are a much, much greater number of dimwits at non-Ivies...and more as you keep going down the rankings.

My brother was a complete idiot and on a full ride at an ~330 ranked university....between the 4 roommates they didn't have a 4.0 first quarter...didn't even pick their books up (that were paid for).

The liklihood of finding a dimwit is much greater not on an Ivy/T10/20 campus. These arguments are so stupid....everyone worked with that dumb Ivy grad...

look, I get it...we always make fun of our kid when he does something stupid...'Ivy grad' and joke about it with him.

But that misses the fact that there are so many schools in this county, many of them with crazy smart kids, though apparently not your brother.

I would pick a top 25% grad of a state flagship over a generic ivy grad any day of the week. (And that is backed up by my experience in professional school admissions.)

I would interview the person, understand their skills, temperament and goals, and then determine whether they would add and align with the company culture for long-term success. I wouldn’t have preconceived notions on their undergrad and instead see who I met that day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish my kid was coddled more, not really, but that is so false. There may be some plush privates that do that but it’s not the Ivies. Most get humbled real quick and the expectations are very high. There is no hand holding.

I believe what they mean by coddled is the Ivies do not provide the full gamut of a real word education. For instance, you don’t have to be proactive to get your classes. If you’re struggling, they practically give your own personal tutor. You don’t get that in publics, at least not to that extent. You have to be responsible and get your classes early or they’ll run out of seats. If you’re struggling, they do have resources to help you but you have to seek out. And when you do, you might have to wait a couple hours for your turn (this is most common in lower division introductory courses. Upper division is much more intimate). So public school education is more relatable to the real world. No one’s gonna give you a job out there, you have to seek it out. If you’re struggling at your job, you’re pretty much on your own to figure it out. An IT person once said he could always tell what school someone went to. He said the private school people would call me to fix stuff that only took a reboot.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't have anything to do with sour grapes. It's more of a reaction to the obsession with obtaining 'elite' credentials, especially when they are gatekept by obscure or questionable processes, and the extreme min/max optimized paths parents put their children through to obtain them.