Segregation Is Coming

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not really fair to the ESOL and SPED students that they are tossed in a class most of the day where they often understand very little. If they are lucky they get an hour a day of pull out instruction and someone coming in off and on to help them. It's not enough and I can't imagine how lost many of them feel.

I feel this acutely. The over emphasis on mainstreaming everyone immediately is almost always to the detriment of kids who need extra help. I see classes with more than 10 students with IEP's and more than 5 students who are Wnhlish learners, with one part time aide who 90% of the time has to focus on student who has intensive behavioral needs and needs constant 1-1 attention. All of the other kids just get whatever the main classroom teacher can give, plus a short pull out group for EL's during 20-30 mins of language arts.

Would most IEP students and EL's be getting more attention and learning more in self-contained classes? Absolutely. No question.

I don't understand when the "least restrictive environment" slipped to ALWAYS being the mainstream classroom.

It’s swinging to even more inclusion. FCPS is piloting programs to put more students in inclusive settings and reduce self contained options.

FCPS is circling the toilet-bowl thanks to incompetent Michelle Reid, the woke school board, and all the LWNJs running Gatehouse.

[Anonymous]

We moved elsewhere in Virginia but our kids did grade school in FCPS. I remember the segregation that was AAP. My kids were general ed, and man it moved at a glacial pace for them. They're bright, but I did not prep them for the CoGAT starting in preschool like other moms because shouldn't being gifted be a natural trait instead of a coached one? Anyway, having AAP set up a segregated system whereby the general ed kids got the scraps. The only way kids stand out in FCPS is by being either a troublemaker or in AAP. Otherwise, you're just in the middle and therefore, ignored and pushed along with work that's way too easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that most of these children do not come from homes that foster academics and assimilation. My grandfather immigrated from Italy 100 years ago at age 7 and was instantly put into public school in the U.S. He knew zero English. But his family didn't immigrate to the U.S. for him to fail in school, so he picked it up.

Even more recently, my good friend as a kid (who is now in her 30s) moved from Germany to the US in 2nd grade. She spoke no English whatsoever upon arrival but was speaking meaningfully within a month and fluent with virtually no accent by mid 3rd grade. I have family friends whose kids are in their teens who were stationed in Germany and sent their kids to German schools. They picked up the language and are fluent after being stationed there for 2 years.

Immersion has been shown time and time again to be the most effective way for kids to learn a language. ESOL students should 100% be in mainstream classrooms, there just needs to be stronger expectations that they pick up English for use at school and that also needs to be communicated to their families.

Totally agree.

My young adult kid did a study abroad for a year. Within 6 months they were fluent in the language, reading and writing. It was complete immersion.

Kids pick it up even quicker.

We are doing a disservice to these non English speaking kids by not requiring them to speak English from the start.

Our acceptance and accommodation is setting them up for failure.

I'm a big proponent of immersion, too, because I lived it. But I think it only works well when parents push their kids to be academically focused and can make themselves available to help, especially if they speak a little bit of English. I don't think it works for families that are having trouble making ends meet. Within a year, I was excelling in school, and in two years, I was part of the gifted program. But that would have never happened if my parents hadn't had the time to help me at home. I had to take all of my classwork home to complete because I understood nothing. On the weekends, my parents took us kids to the public library to check out books and practice reading. I had to look up EVERY word in the Spanish/English dictionary. It is not easy. Not everyone has support from their parents, either because they have to work multiple jobs to pay the bills or because they don't care much about academics.

Not expecting kids to rise to the occasion and setting their bar to the lowest levels because of their ethnic background in the name of kindness and inclusivity is creating harm in the long run.

Not really understanding what you mean. You think kids that don't speak English and whose parents can't help them at home should be expected to just rise to the occasion? It's not that easy, unless you're talking about kindergarteners or first graders. Kids that come into FCPS from other non-English speaking countries at older ages (2nd grade or above) are not going to do well if they don't have help at home. All of the other kids are reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids who go to school in Spain or some other country that don't speak the local language must do 6 months of intensive language before they enroll in local schools - not expensive expat schools of course. There is nothing wrong with that.

This is a fantastic idea, but they can't just ignore all of the other subjects, or they'll be behind. It all needs to happen concurrently. Bottom line: kids that don't speak English have to work twice as hard as all of the other kids in the first few years to catch up and then stay on course. There's no shortcut. They have to put in the work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We moved elsewhere in Virginia but our kids did grade school in FCPS. I remember the segregation that was AAP. My kids were general ed, and man it moved at a glacial pace for them. They're bright, but I did not prep them for the CoGAT starting in preschool like other moms because shouldn't being gifted be a natural trait instead of a coached one? Anyway, having AAP set up a segregated system whereby the general ed kids got the scraps. The only way kids stand out in FCPS is by being either a troublemaker or in AAP. Otherwise, you're just in the middle and therefore, ignored and pushed along with work that's way too easy.

What do you think is the solution?

[Anonymous]

I'm older Gen X (closing in on 60). I was gifted in grade school in terms of reading and writing. Other than being sent to a classroom down the hall for the next grade up for the reading and writing unit, I was in the classroom with a mix of everyone and they with me. That meant I could help my classmates who were struggling with reading and writing, and the classmates who were good at math could help me. Math is where I struggled. I knew which classmates to ask for help, lol. That was the 1970s education model. It worked out well. Everybody in the classroom had a sense of their strengths and weaknesses, and we helped each other. We were all in it together. There wasn't built-in segregation like gifted programs that drove a wedge between the kids. The gifted and the not gifted coexisted together in the same room. There was no such division back then. We need to go back to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved elsewhere in Virginia but our kids did grade school in FCPS. I remember the segregation that was AAP. My kids were general ed, and man it moved at a glacial pace for them. They're bright, but I did not prep them for the CoGAT starting in preschool like other moms because shouldn't being gifted be a natural trait instead of a coached one? Anyway, having AAP set up a segregated system whereby the general ed kids got the scraps. The only way kids stand out in FCPS is by being either a troublemaker or in AAP. Otherwise, you're just in the middle and therefore, ignored and pushed along with work that's way too easy.

What do you think is the solution?

Moms are prepping their kids for the CoGAT in order to avoid general ed, which means general ed becomes an afterthought, which means general ed keeps going downhill because there is no investment in making it better. All of the emphasis is put on AAP. Prepping your kid, getting him or her in, and coming to view the kids stuck in gen ed as somehow less than when they are not less than. Every kid is a quivering mass of potential. FCPS set it up this way, though. I am not surprised AT ALL that it isn't working. Separating kids out becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The school is effectively set up over time to work for only 2 percent of the classroom instead of the other 98 percent who are left doing the same stacks of flash cards all year for the end-of-year SOLs. The gen ed kids' only real purpose is to pass the SOL in FCPS. Other than that, they are irrelevant. Helping them work ahead and hone their strengths isn't the goal. Just get over 400 on the SOL is the goal. Then you can forget it all. Is that learning? No. It's educational abandonment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved elsewhere in Virginia but our kids did grade school in FCPS. I remember the segregation that was AAP. My kids were general ed, and man it moved at a glacial pace for them. They're bright, but I did not prep them for the CoGAT starting in preschool like other moms because shouldn't being gifted be a natural trait instead of a coached one? Anyway, having AAP set up a segregated system whereby the general ed kids got the scraps. The only way kids stand out in FCPS is by being either a troublemaker or in AAP. Otherwise, you're just in the middle and therefore, ignored and pushed along with work that's way too easy.

What do you think is the solution?

Moms are prepping their kids for the CoGAT in order to avoid general ed, which means general ed becomes an afterthought, which means general ed keeps going downhill because there is no investment in making it better. All of the emphasis is put on AAP. Prepping your kid, getting him or her in, and coming to view the kids stuck in gen ed as somehow less than when they are not less than. Every kid is a quivering mass of potential. FCPS set it up this way, though. I am not surprised AT ALL that it isn't working. Separating kids out becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The school is effectively set up over time to work for only 2 percent of the classroom instead of the other 98 percent who are left doing the same stacks of flash cards all year for the end-of-year SOLs. The gen ed kids' only real purpose is to pass the SOL in FCPS. Other than that, they are irrelevant. Helping them work ahead and hone their strengths isn't the goal. Just get over 400 on the SOL is the goal. Then you can forget it all. Is that learning? No. It's educational abandonment.

What do you think is the solution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved elsewhere in Virginia but our kids did grade school in FCPS. I remember the segregation that was AAP. My kids were general ed, and man it moved at a glacial pace for them. They're bright, but I did not prep them for the CoGAT starting in preschool like other moms because shouldn't being gifted be a natural trait instead of a coached one? Anyway, having AAP set up a segregated system whereby the general ed kids got the scraps. The only way kids stand out in FCPS is by being either a troublemaker or in AAP. Otherwise, you're just in the middle and therefore, ignored and pushed along with work that's way too easy.

What do you think is the solution?

Moms are prepping their kids for the CoGAT in order to avoid general ed, which means general ed becomes an afterthought, which means general ed keeps going downhill because there is no investment in making it better. All of the emphasis is put on AAP. Prepping your kid, getting him or her in, and coming to view the kids stuck in gen ed as somehow less than when they are not less than. Every kid is a quivering mass of potential. FCPS set it up this way, though. I am not surprised AT ALL that it isn't working. Separating kids out becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The school is effectively set up over time to work for only 2 percent of the classroom instead of the other 98 percent who are left doing the same stacks of flash cards all year for the end-of-year SOLs. The gen ed kids' only real purpose is to pass the SOL in FCPS. Other than that, they are irrelevant. Helping them work ahead and hone their strengths isn't the goal. Just get over 400 on the SOL is the goal. Then you can forget it all. Is that learning? No. It's educational abandonment.

What do you think is the solution?

Stop focusing on educational performance differences and gaps.

[Anonymous]

Students should first be taught how to read and write in their native language. Once they learn the mechanics, they have less issues learning how to read and write in English. Now, this works best with European languages, of course.

Many Hispanic kids show up to school with little to no training in sound recognition in either Spanish or English. Imagine trying to learn how to read and write in a language you don’t even know.

Also, the previous examples here of people learning the local language in a year or two before the age of 10, is possible because they, most likely, were the only kids at the school who did not know the local language, and had no other option but to learn it to make friends. The percentage of Spanish speakers in schools like Herndon Elementary, is so high, there is no incentive for many of the new arrivals to learn English. The kids can easily make friends in Spanish.

These kids not only fall behind learning English, but they do not learn science or social studies content either. If they could be taught some of these subjects in Spanish, their self esteem might improve. I am not a fan of the fcps immersion model, as it does not emphasize teaching language arts. I mean, isn’t that the point too?

I would suggest two years of language arts in Spanish, and then transition to English, especially for k-2 grades.

I taught in language immersion schools for over ten years. Yes, kids are sponges, and they learned quickly, but their parents were professionals, who often already spoke the target language. The situation in fcps is different, especially for the native Spanish speakers.

[Anonymous]

PP here. I'll never forget our upper elementary student (former FCPS student) coming home from their second day of school at their new school hours away in Virginia. Kid had a shell-shocked look on the face. I asked what was going on and kid said: my teacher told me that I have to write a three-page history essay, single spaced. Kid had never been assigned that much writing in general ed in FCPS. Had only done fill in the blank worksheets and writing maybe three paragraphs in a journal. It was a real wake up. I sat with kid and coached them through that one, since kid had never been pushed in FCPS to write for real. That's FCPS gen ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Students should first be taught how to read and write in their native language. Once they learn the mechanics, they have less issues learning how to read and write in English. Now, this works best with European languages, of course.

Many Hispanic kids show up to school with little to no training in sound recognition in either Spanish or English. Imagine trying to learn how to read and write in a language you don’t even know.

Also, the previous examples here of people learning the local language in a year or two before the age of 10, is possible because they, most likely, were the only kids at the school who did not know the local language, and had no other option but to learn it to make friends. The percentage of Spanish speakers in schools like Herndon Elementary, is so high, there is no incentive for many of the new arrivals to learn English. The kids can easily make friends in Spanish.

These kids not only fall behind learning English, but they do not learn science or social studies content either. If they could be taught some of these subjects in Spanish, their self esteem might improve. I am not a fan of the fcps immersion model, as it does not emphasize teaching language arts. I mean, isn’t that the point too?

I would suggest two years of language arts in Spanish, and then transition to English, especially for k-2 grades.

I taught in language immersion schools for over ten years. Yes, kids are sponges, and they learned quickly, but their parents were professionals, who often already spoke the target language. The situation in fcps is different, especially for the native Spanish speakers.

ELL teacher in FCPS. I completely agree with all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids who go to school in Spain or some other country that don't speak the local language must do 6 months of intensive language before they enroll in local schools - not expensive expat schools of course. There is nothing wrong with that.

I grew up in FL and that's what we had as well.

What's wild to me is that new immigrants who don't speak any English are paired with the top kid in each class who then helps their partner through the day. It's always kind, soft spoken girls, which makes me sad for them that they get extra jobs just by nature of being good. As a female, I don't like always putting the extra work always on little girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm older Gen X (closing in on 60). I was gifted in grade school in terms of reading and writing. Other than being sent to a classroom down the hall for the next grade up for the reading and writing unit, I was in the classroom with a mix of everyone and they with me. That meant I could help my classmates who were struggling with reading and writing, and the classmates who were good at math could help me. Math is where I struggled. I knew which classmates to ask for help, lol. That was the 1970s education model. It worked out well. Everybody in the classroom had a sense of their strengths and weaknesses, and we helped each other. We were all in it together. There wasn't built-in segregation like gifted programs that drove a wedge between the kids. The gifted and the not gifted coexisted together in the same room. There was no such division back then. We need to go back to that.

I disagree with this. It shouldn't be on other kids to teach struggling kids. We pay an exorbitant amount of money in taxes for schools. Maybe instead of tons and tons of admin we could have more teachers helping in class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids who go to school in Spain or some other country that don't speak the local language must do 6 months of intensive language before they enroll in local schools - not expensive expat schools of course. There is nothing wrong with that.

I grew up in FL and that's what we had as well.

What's wild to me is that new immigrants who don't speak any English are paired with the top kid in each class who then helps their partner through the day. It's always kind, soft spoken girls, which makes me sad for them that they get extra jobs just by nature of being good. As a female, I don't like always putting the extra work always on little girls.

Where do you see this?