Segregation Is Coming

[Anonymous]

FYI, immigrants' paychecks are deducted of taxes, too.

Only if they have a SSN.

Mostly under the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am an ESOL teacher so I am well aware of the different types of students we have in FCPS. The person was making the point that learning English as Spanish is not that hard a transition. I made the point that it is often the Spanish speaking students who make the slowest progress, usually either because they are coming to school with having very little academic education and/or because they are able to make many Spanish speaking friends so they are able to get by with little English. Also, a student in FCPS in 7th grade would not be asked to do that because they would be in self-contained ELL classes. ESOL students are very fortunate in FCPS - we have so many supports for them to help them succeed. No student is just thrown in an English class and asked to write a paragraph in English their first week of school.

Not an ESOL teacher, but former DOD teacher who taught a number of ESOL kids. I taught first grade. When I had 1-3 Spanish speaking kids, they learned to speak English quickly. iGrade 1). One year I had seven and it took much, much, longer because they hung together.

I imagine it is very difficult with the older kids. And, there doesn't seem to be a big incentive to learn English for many of the parents.

I don’t think it takes these parents any longer to learn English than other low income immigrants in the past. Now, if the current Spanish speaking immigrants were living in backwoods Montana, then they would have no other choice.

Didn’t NYC have newspapers in Yiddish, Russian, Italian for a long time?

US immigrants (they like to call themselves “ex-pats”) to Mexico expect service in English often. It takes time to learn a new language as an adult, and for the immigrants here, time is money.

I think the difference is that the former immigrants knew their kids must speak English. Not sure some of the present ones do--but, as a PP said, they work hard and time is money.

I think sometimes there is also the hope to go back to their countries. They might see there time as temporary.
I forgot to add above, that many Latin American immigrants of indigenous origin also speak a native language, so English ends up being their third language. Their kids also hear Spanish and the native language at home.

Glad to hear im paying for their kid's education for a temporary stop through.

FYI, immigrants' paychecks are deducted of taxes, too.

Ah yes, it's so easy to deduct from cash paid under the table

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am an ESOL teacher so I am well aware of the different types of students we have in FCPS. The person was making the point that learning English as Spanish is not that hard a transition. I made the point that it is often the Spanish speaking students who make the slowest progress, usually either because they are coming to school with having very little academic education and/or because they are able to make many Spanish speaking friends so they are able to get by with little English. Also, a student in FCPS in 7th grade would not be asked to do that because they would be in self-contained ELL classes. ESOL students are very fortunate in FCPS - we have so many supports for them to help them succeed. No student is just thrown in an English class and asked to write a paragraph in English their first week of school.

Not an ESOL teacher, but former DOD teacher who taught a number of ESOL kids. I taught first grade. When I had 1-3 Spanish speaking kids, they learned to speak English quickly. iGrade 1). One year I had seven and it took much, much, longer because they hung together.

I imagine it is very difficult with the older kids. And, there doesn't seem to be a big incentive to learn English for many of the parents.

I don’t think it takes these parents any longer to learn English than other low income immigrants in the past. Now, if the current Spanish speaking immigrants were living in backwoods Montana, then they would have no other choice.

Didn’t NYC have newspapers in Yiddish, Russian, Italian for a long time?

US immigrants (they like to call themselves “ex-pats”) to Mexico expect service in English often. It takes time to learn a new language as an adult, and for the immigrants here, time is money.

I think the difference is that the former immigrants knew their kids must speak English. Not sure some of the present ones do--but, as a PP said, they work hard and time is money.

I think sometimes there is also the hope to go back to their countries. They might see there time as temporary.
I forgot to add above, that many Latin American immigrants of indigenous origin also speak a native language, so English ends up being their third language. Their kids also hear Spanish and the native language at home.

Glad to hear im paying for their kid's education for a temporary stop through.

FYI, immigrants' paychecks are deducted of taxes, too.

Illegal immigrants tend to get paid in cash and don't pay taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not really fair to the ESOL and SPED students that they are tossed in a class most of the day where they often understand very little. If they are lucky they get an hour a day of pull out instruction and someone coming in off and on to help them. It's not enough and I can't imagine how lost many of them feel.

I feel this acutely. The over emphasis on mainstreaming everyone immediately is almost always to the detriment of kids who need extra help. I see classes with more than 10 students with IEP's and more than 5 students who are Wnhlish learners, with one part time aide who 90% of the time has to focus on student who has intensive behavioral needs and needs constant 1-1 attention. All of the other kids just get whatever the main classroom teacher can give, plus a short pull out group for EL's during 20-30 mins of language arts.

Would most IEP students and EL's be getting more attention and learning more in self-contained classes? Absolutely. No question.

I don't understand when the "least restrictive environment" slipped to ALWAYS being the mainstream classroom.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 2% FARM
Herndon 50% FARM

Adjacent pyramids. Let me know if you see anything off about this.

It was not this way when the boundaries were drawn. Therefore, it was not "segregation."

Yes it was. See Region 3. Most bananas boundary lines in the history of boundary lines.

Herndon was 50% FARMS in the 90s when the boundaries between it and Langley changed?

Nah son.

https://www.schooldigger.com/go/VA/schools/0126000495/school.aspx?t=tbStudents&st=tbLunch#aDetail

The boundaries changed around 1998 and Herndon was around 8% FARMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved elsewhere in Virginia but our kids did grade school in FCPS. I remember the segregation that was AAP. My kids were general ed, and man it moved at a glacial pace for them. They're bright, but I did not prep them for the CoGAT starting in preschool like other moms because shouldn't being gifted be a natural trait instead of a coached one? Anyway, having AAP set up a segregated system whereby the general ed kids got the scraps. The only way kids stand out in FCPS is by being either a troublemaker or in AAP. Otherwise, you're just in the middle and therefore, ignored and pushed along with work that's way too easy.

What do you think is the solution?

DP. The solution is to have flexible groupings for ALL students, to include advanced, grade-level, and remedial - in all four core subjects. Kids should be able to cycle into and out of the appropriate group for them for each subject. This massive segregation and division of kids into one of two groups (AAP / GE) is absurd. There is far too much overlap for it to be so black and white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm older Gen X (closing in on 60). I was gifted in grade school in terms of reading and writing. Other than being sent to a classroom down the hall for the next grade up for the reading and writing unit, I was in the classroom with a mix of everyone and they with me. That meant I could help my classmates who were struggling with reading and writing, and the classmates who were good at math could help me. Math is where I struggled. I knew which classmates to ask for help, lol. That was the 1970s education model. It worked out well. Everybody in the classroom had a sense of their strengths and weaknesses, and we helped each other. We were all in it together. There wasn't built-in segregation like gifted programs that drove a wedge between the kids. The gifted and the not gifted coexisted together in the same room. There was no such division back then. We need to go back to that.

Exactly. Many kids are advanced in one subject but not across the board. I grew up with flexible groupings and it worked for *everyone*.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 2% FARM
Herndon 50% FARM

Adjacent pyramids. Let me know if you see anything off about this.

It was not this way when the boundaries were drawn. Therefore, it was not "segregation."

Yes it was. See Region 3. Most bananas boundary lines in the history of boundary lines.

Herndon was 50% FARMS in the 90s when the boundaries between it and Langley changed?

Nah son.

https://www.schooldigger.com/go/VA/schools/0126000495/school.aspx?t=tbStudents&st=tbLunch#aDetail

The boundaries changed around 1998 and Herndon was around 8% FARMS.

+1
The fact that the FARMS rate at Herndon has increased so drastically has everything to do with the town of Herndon and their "welcoming" policies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 2% FARM
Herndon 50% FARM

Adjacent pyramids. Let me know if you see anything off about this.

It was not this way when the boundaries were drawn. Therefore, it was not "segregation."

Yes it was. See Region 3. Most bananas boundary lines in the history of boundary lines.

Herndon was 50% FARMS in the 90s when the boundaries between it and Langley changed?

Nah son.

https://www.schooldigger.com/go/VA/schools/0126000495/school.aspx?t=tbStudents&st=tbLunch#aDetail

The boundaries changed around 1998 and Herndon was around 8% FARMS.

+1
The fact that the FARMS rate at Herndon has increased so drastically has everything to do with the town of Herndon and their "welcoming" policies.

And the anti-Langley poster has convinced herself that Langley families are somehow responsible for the rise in farms in the Herndon pyramid. Also, that it’s part of a grand conspiracy on behalf of FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 2% FARM
Herndon 50% FARM

Adjacent pyramids. Let me know if you see anything off about this.

It was not this way when the boundaries were drawn. Therefore, it was not "segregation."

Yes it was. See Region 3. Most bananas boundary lines in the history of boundary lines.

Herndon was 50% FARMS in the 90s when the boundaries between it and Langley changed?

Nah son.

https://www.schooldigger.com/go/VA/schools/0126000495/school.aspx?t=tbStudents&st=tbLunch#aDetail

The boundaries changed around 1998 and Herndon was around 8% FARMS.

+1
The fact that the FARMS rate at Herndon has increased so drastically has everything to do with the town of Herndon and their "welcoming" policies.

To be fair, Fairfax County welcoming policies likely did the same. Certain pockets of the county already had high immigrant rates but since Fairfax has decided on being a welcoming jurisdiction a flood have people have come in staying with their family members and friends in those same areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that most of these children do not come from homes that foster academics and assimilation. My grandfather immigrated from Italy 100 years ago at age 7 and was instantly put into public school in the U.S. He knew zero English. But his family didn't immigrate to the U.S. for him to fail in school, so he picked it up.

Even more recently, my good friend as a kid (who is now in her 30s) moved from Germany to the US in 2nd grade. She spoke no English whatsoever upon arrival but was speaking meaningfully within a month and fluent with virtually no accent by mid 3rd grade. I have family friends whose kids are in their teens who were stationed in Germany and sent their kids to German schools. They picked up the language and are fluent after being stationed there for 2 years.

Immersion has been shown time and time again to be the most effective way for kids to learn a language. ESOL students should 100% be in mainstream classrooms, there just needs to be stronger expectations that they pick up English for use at school and that also needs to be communicated to their families.

Have there been studies about the effect on the other kids in the classroom? I ask because while immersion might be great for the kid, she’s only one of many in the classroom.

This has to be highlighted again. What are the benefits to the native English speaking kids in the classroom? Are we just expected to pay for our child to enrich others while getting nothing beneficial in return? These kids increase classroom size and decrease teacher attention to remaining students all while costing more to educate.

This is something that many don’t understand about equity. School resources aren’t the only thing divided to ensure equal outcomes. School systems assume the resources of the parents as well. So kids who need more get more from the school, and parents who have more are expected to make up the difference for their own child.

That's some scary stuff

[Anonymous]

ESL doesn't affect you at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ESL doesn't affect you at all.

It affects our taxes -$124 million last year is insane. It also reduces the amount of attention teachers can give other students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ESL doesn't affect you at all.

What are you smoking? Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ESL doesn't affect you at all.

What are you smoking? Good grief.

nothing, it really does not.