Segregation Is Coming

[Anonymous]

You’re joking right. This is FCPS, they will turn a bug into a feature. Just offering more Spanish immersion schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley 2% FARM
Herndon 50% FARM

Adjacent pyramids. Let me know if you see anything off about this.

It was not this way when the boundaries were drawn. Therefore, it was not "segregation."

Yes it was. See Region 3. Most bananas boundary lines in the history of boundary lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not really fair to the ESOL and SPED students that they are tossed in a class most of the day where they often understand very little. If they are lucky they get an hour a day of pull out instruction and someone coming in off and on to help them. It's not enough and I can't imagine how lost many of them feel.

I feel this acutely. The over emphasis on mainstreaming everyone immediately is almost always to the detriment of kids who need extra help. I see classes with more than 10 students with IEP's and more than 5 students who are Wnhlish learners, with one part time aide who 90% of the time has to focus on student who has intensive behavioral needs and needs constant 1-1 attention. All of the other kids just get whatever the main classroom teacher can give, plus a short pull out group for EL's during 20-30 mins of language arts.

Would most IEP students and EL's be getting more attention and learning more in self-contained classes? Absolutely. No question.

I don't understand when the "least restrictive environment" slipped to ALWAYS being the mainstream classroom.

It’s swinging to even more inclusion. FCPS is piloting programs to put more students in inclusive settings and reduce self contained options.

Can you give examples?

Some of the middle and high schools are piloting it next year.

[Anonymous]

It will hide the special ed teacher shortage nicely. Meanwhile the few special ed teachers we have will be asked to do even more. 15 kids with IEPs in a class isn’t feasible. It’s not just the bodies in the room. A plethora of administrative tasks are also required. Ask your child’s teacher how much of their planning is spent in meetings, writing IEPs and analyzing data. Now ask them how much time they have to plan engaging instruction. Now ask them again if they have students with severe behavior needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not really fair to the ESOL and SPED students that they are tossed in a class most of the day where they often understand very little. If they are lucky they get an hour a day of pull out instruction and someone coming in off and on to help them. It's not enough and I can't imagine how lost many of them feel.

I feel this acutely. The over emphasis on mainstreaming everyone immediately is almost always to the detriment of kids who need extra help. I see classes with more than 10 students with IEP's and more than 5 students who are Wnhlish learners, with one part time aide who 90% of the time has to focus on student who has intensive behavioral needs and needs constant 1-1 attention. All of the other kids just get whatever the main classroom teacher can give, plus a short pull out group for EL's during 20-30 mins of language arts.

Would most IEP students and EL's be getting more attention and learning more in self-contained classes? Absolutely. No question.

I don't understand when the "least restrictive environment" slipped to ALWAYS being the mainstream classroom.

It’s swinging to even more inclusion. FCPS is piloting programs to put more students in inclusive settings and reduce self contained options.

Can you give examples?

Some of the middle and high schools are piloting it next year.

Yes my HS is piloting it. It sounds to me like the Special Ed teachers will have even more work than they do now. Instead of being in a teamed or self contained setting, they will be covering multiple classes during one period for pull out/push in. It’s going to be a disaster and we’ll have even more of a special Ed teacher shortage because who wants to deal with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Segregating by learning skill level allows each group to receive the support best suited to their needs. What benefit is there in placing a Jiffy Lube technician and a NASA aeronautical engineer in the same class, simply for the sake of desegregation?

Blame the parents, not the schools. It's often parents pressuring their kids to enroll into AP so they can keep up with the Joneses. When I taught AP at LBSS I felt sorry for those kids. AP fail rates are on average 25-35% at all schools except TJ/Langley/McLean. That means they learned less than a grade C level on the national norm.

[Anonymous]

Thank goodness. And let's start getting those who don't pay taxes out of the schools. Fair is fair.

[Anonymous]

Kids who go to school in Spain or some other country that don't speak the local language must do 6 months of intensive language before they enroll in local schools - not expensive expat schools of course. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids who go to school in Spain or some other country that don't speak the local language must do 6 months of intensive language before they enroll in local schools - not expensive expat schools of course. There is nothing wrong with that.

This is actually a great idea. Have an intensive 6 month immersion classes in English before coming to regular school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids who go to school in Spain or some other country that don't speak the local language must do 6 months of intensive language before they enroll in local schools - not expensive expat schools of course. There is nothing wrong with that.

This is actually a great idea. Have an intensive 6 month immersion classes in English before coming to regular school.

We also need to insist that the parents support this.

Interesting, that some of the immigrant communities do insist their kids learn English. Some don't.

When you go to vote in Fairfax county, you get a ballot with multiple languages. That needs to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids who go to school in Spain or some other country that don't speak the local language must do 6 months of intensive language before they enroll in local schools - not expensive expat schools of course. There is nothing wrong with that.

This is actually a great idea. Have an intensive 6 month immersion classes in English before coming to regular school.

We also need to insist that the parents support this.

Interesting, that some of the immigrant communities do insist their kids learn English. Some don't.

When you go to vote in Fairfax county, you get a ballot with multiple languages. That needs to stop.

The parent support is the key. Parents need to insist that their kids learn English to participate fully in public schools. Kids brains are literally wired for language acquisition.


I'm okay with ballots being offered in many languages, for something critical like elections, I'd rather people fully understand what they're voting for in the language that is most comfortable for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that most of these children do not come from homes that foster academics and assimilation. My grandfather immigrated from Italy 100 years ago at age 7 and was instantly put into public school in the U.S. He knew zero English. But his family didn't immigrate to the U.S. for him to fail in school, so he picked it up.

Even more recently, my good friend as a kid (who is now in her 30s) moved from Germany to the US in 2nd grade. She spoke no English whatsoever upon arrival but was speaking meaningfully within a month and fluent with virtually no accent by mid 3rd grade. I have family friends whose kids are in their teens who were stationed in Germany and sent their kids to German schools. They picked up the language and are fluent after being stationed there for 2 years.

Immersion has been shown time and time again to be the most effective way for kids to learn a language. ESOL students should 100% be in mainstream classrooms, there just needs to be stronger expectations that they pick up English for use at school and that also needs to be communicated to their families.

Totally agree.

My young adult kid did a study abroad for a year. Within 6 months they were fluent in the language, reading and writing. It was complete immersion.

Kids pick it up even quicker.

We are doing a disservice to these non English speaking kids by not requiring them to speak English from the start.

Our acceptance and accommodation is setting them up for failure.

I'm a big proponent of immersion, too, because I lived it. But I think it only works well when parents push their kids to be academically focused and can make themselves available to help, especially if they speak a little bit of English. I don't think it works for families that are having trouble making ends meet. Within a year, I was excelling in school, and in two years, I was part of the gifted program. But that would have never happened if my parents hadn't had the time to help me at home. I had to take all of my classwork home to complete because I understood nothing. On the weekends, my parents took us kids to the public library to check out books and practice reading. I had to look up EVERY word in the Spanish/English dictionary. It is not easy. Not everyone has support from their parents, either because they have to work multiple jobs to pay the bills or because they don't care much about academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that most of these children do not come from homes that foster academics and assimilation. My grandfather immigrated from Italy 100 years ago at age 7 and was instantly put into public school in the U.S. He knew zero English. But his family didn't immigrate to the U.S. for him to fail in school, so he picked it up.

Even more recently, my good friend as a kid (who is now in her 30s) moved from Germany to the US in 2nd grade. She spoke no English whatsoever upon arrival but was speaking meaningfully within a month and fluent with virtually no accent by mid 3rd grade. I have family friends whose kids are in their teens who were stationed in Germany and sent their kids to German schools. They picked up the language and are fluent after being stationed there for 2 years.

Immersion has been shown time and time again to be the most effective way for kids to learn a language. ESOL students should 100% be in mainstream classrooms, there just needs to be stronger expectations that they pick up English for use at school and that also needs to be communicated to their families.

Totally agree.

My young adult kid did a study abroad for a year. Within 6 months they were fluent in the language, reading and writing. It was complete immersion.

Kids pick it up even quicker.

We are doing a disservice to these non English speaking kids by not requiring them to speak English from the start.

Our acceptance and accommodation is setting them up for failure.

I'm a big proponent of immersion, too, because I lived it. But I think it only works well when parents push their kids to be academically focused and can make themselves available to help, especially if they speak a little bit of English. I don't think it works for families that are having trouble making ends meet. Within a year, I was excelling in school, and in two years, I was part of the gifted program. But that would have never happened if my parents hadn't had the time to help me at home. I had to take all of my classwork home to complete because I understood nothing. On the weekends, my parents took us kids to the public library to check out books and practice reading. I had to look up EVERY word in the Spanish/English dictionary. It is not easy. Not everyone has support from their parents, either because they have to work multiple jobs to pay the bills or because they don't care much about academics.

Not expecting kids to rise to the occasion and setting their bar to the lowest levels because of their ethnic background in the name of kindness and inclusivity is creating harm in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At these tax rates, don't be surprised when parents start pushing for more segregation in schools to remove or sequester low-performing ESOL kids. While it will seem harsh, all kids deserve a great education, and none should be held back by classmates that don't speak English or who don't want to learn.

Yeah, OK LWNJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that most of these children do not come from homes that foster academics and assimilation. My grandfather immigrated from Italy 100 years ago at age 7 and was instantly put into public school in the U.S. He knew zero English. But his family didn't immigrate to the U.S. for him to fail in school, so he picked it up.

Even more recently, my good friend as a kid (who is now in her 30s) moved from Germany to the US in 2nd grade. She spoke no English whatsoever upon arrival but was speaking meaningfully within a month and fluent with virtually no accent by mid 3rd grade. I have family friends whose kids are in their teens who were stationed in Germany and sent their kids to German schools. They picked up the language and are fluent after being stationed there for 2 years.

Immersion has been shown time and time again to be the most effective way for kids to learn a language. ESOL students should 100% be in mainstream classrooms, there just needs to be stronger expectations that they pick up English for use at school and that also needs to be communicated to their families.

Totally agree.

My young adult kid did a study abroad for a year. Within 6 months they were fluent in the language, reading and writing. It was complete immersion.

Kids pick it up even quicker.

We are doing a disservice to these non English speaking kids by not requiring them to speak English from the start.

Our acceptance and accommodation is setting them up for failure.

I'm a big proponent of immersion, too, because I lived it. But I think it only works well when parents push their kids to be academically focused and can make themselves available to help, especially if they speak a little bit of English. I don't think it works for families that are having trouble making ends meet. Within a year, I was excelling in school, and in two years, I was part of the gifted program. But that would have never happened if my parents hadn't had the time to help me at home. I had to take all of my classwork home to complete because I understood nothing. On the weekends, my parents took us kids to the public library to check out books and practice reading. I had to look up EVERY word in the Spanish/English dictionary. It is not easy. Not everyone has support from their parents, either because they have to work multiple jobs to pay the bills or because they don't care much about academics.

If you are in school 7 hours a day learning a language, you will learn it very quickly. That is how the military teaches language - and that's to old people. It's not going to need lots of homework - just lots of hours of dedicated learning.