Is it not fair to say college rankings are basically just test score rankings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Duke, Hopkins, Harvard, Cornell are all test optional

curious why you selected these four?

In any case they are probably not test optional for long. And at least Duke and Harvard show a clear preference for applicants with scores.

I don't think scores are the end-all-be-all but we have gone too far in the other direction.

T25s that are still TO maybe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Duke, Hopkins, Harvard, Cornell are all test optional

Yeah, see how that goes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges ranked by test median with submitting % used to break ties (some of this is a year old):

Name/Median/% Submitting scores (X.XX/1.00)
MIT 1550 1.00
Duke 1550 0.93
Harvard 1550 0.74
JHU 1550 0.54
Yale 1540 0.82
Princeton 1540 0.77
Brown 1540 0.76
UChicago 1540 0.76
Rice 1540 0.72
UPenn 1540 0.70
Stanford 1540 0.69
WashU 1540 0.57
Carnegie Melon 1540 0.67
Vanderbilt 1540 0.51
Northwestern 1530 0.79
Columbia 1530 0.62
Dartmouth 1520 1.00
Cornell 1520 0.66
NYU 1520 0.39
Notre Dame 1500 0.66
Emory 1500 0.61
Tufts 1500 0.53
Northeastern 1500 0.35
Case Western 1490 0.66
USC 1490 0.46
Georgetown 1480 1.00
Boston College 1480 0.50
UMich Ann Arbor 1470 0.7
University of Virginia 1470 0.59
William & Mary 1470 0.59
Rochester 1470 0.36
UNC-CH 1460 0.63
UIUC 1450 0.56
University of Maryland (College Park) 1450 0.48
Wake Forest 1450 0.48
Tulane 1450 0.45
Brandeis 1450 0.43
BU 1450 0.4
Villanova 1450 0.36
Georgia Tech 1440 1.00
UWisconsin 1440 0.54
Stevens Insitute 1440 0.48
RPI 1430 0.6
Lehigh 1430 0.43
George Washington 1420 0.42
UMiami 1410 0.53
Binghampton 1410 0.48
Yeshiva University 1410 0.4
Santa Clara 1410 0.37
UWash 1410 0.19
Colorado School of Mines 1400 0.69
Minnesota 1400 0.42
SBU 1400 0.39
OSU 1395 0.77
UFlorida 1390 1.00
Rutgers 1380 0.55
UMass amherst 1380 0.31
American University 1370 0.36
North Carolina State 1360 0.72
Brigham Young University 1370 0.58
Virginia Tech 1360 0.54
Pitt 1360 0.5
Pepperdine 1360 0.21
University of Vermont 1340 0.46
Syracuse 1340 0.33
Purdue 1330 0.97
Drexel University 1330 0.44
UConn 1330 0.41
UGA 1320 1
FSU 1320 0.66
Clemson 1320 0.6
Auburn University 1320 0.16
Penn State 1310 0.39
SUNY Buffalo 1290 0.36
Indiana University 1280 0.57
University of Colorado Boulder 1280 0.35
University of Delaware 1280 0.28
Texas A&M 1260 0.5
University of Arizona 1260 0.35
Temple University 1260 0.26

OP here. This is my point. It basically mirrors USNWR rankings

No it doesn't. Case Western, William and Mary, Boston College, Tulane, Brandeis, Villanova are all higher here. FSU, Virginia Tech, Rutgers, Florida, OSU, Minnesota are lower.

Not perfect but close. State schools get a bump in USNWR because of Pell Grant stuff, social mobility etc

Rutgers is now ranked higher than Wake Forest. As is Boston University. US News rankings have gone off the deep end.

As they should be.

Wake Forest is meh.

But keep boosting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges ranked by test median with submitting % used to break ties (some of this is a year old):

Name/Median/% Submitting scores (X.XX/1.00)
MIT 1550 1.00
Duke 1550 0.93
Harvard 1550 0.74
JHU 1550 0.54
Yale 1540 0.82
Princeton 1540 0.77
Brown 1540 0.76
UChicago 1540 0.76
Rice 1540 0.72
UPenn 1540 0.70
Stanford 1540 0.69
WashU 1540 0.57
Carnegie Melon 1540 0.67
Vanderbilt 1540 0.51
Northwestern 1530 0.79
Columbia 1530 0.62
Dartmouth 1520 1.00
Cornell 1520 0.66
NYU 1520 0.39
Notre Dame 1500 0.66
Emory 1500 0.61
Tufts 1500 0.53
Northeastern 1500 0.35
Case Western 1490 0.66
USC 1490 0.46
Georgetown 1480 1.00
Boston College 1480 0.50
UMich Ann Arbor 1470 0.7
University of Virginia 1470 0.59
William & Mary 1470 0.59
Rochester 1470 0.36
UNC-CH 1460 0.63
UIUC 1450 0.56
University of Maryland (College Park) 1450 0.48
Wake Forest 1450 0.48
Tulane 1450 0.45
Brandeis 1450 0.43
BU 1450 0.4
Villanova 1450 0.36
Georgia Tech 1440 1.00
UWisconsin 1440 0.54
Stevens Insitute 1440 0.48
RPI 1430 0.6
Lehigh 1430 0.43
George Washington 1420 0.42
UMiami 1410 0.53
Binghampton 1410 0.48
Yeshiva University 1410 0.4
Santa Clara 1410 0.37
UWash 1410 0.19
Colorado School of Mines 1400 0.69
Minnesota 1400 0.42
SBU 1400 0.39
OSU 1395 0.77
UFlorida 1390 1.00
Rutgers 1380 0.55
UMass amherst 1380 0.31
American University 1370 0.36
North Carolina State 1360 0.72
Brigham Young University 1370 0.58
Virginia Tech 1360 0.54
Pitt 1360 0.5
Pepperdine 1360 0.21
University of Vermont 1340 0.46
Syracuse 1340 0.33
Purdue 1330 0.97
Drexel University 1330 0.44
UConn 1330 0.41
UGA 1320 1
FSU 1320 0.66
Clemson 1320 0.6
Auburn University 1320 0.16
Penn State 1310 0.39
SUNY Buffalo 1290 0.36
Indiana University 1280 0.57
University of Colorado Boulder 1280 0.35
University of Delaware 1280 0.28
Texas A&M 1260 0.5
University of Arizona 1260 0.35
Temple University 1260 0.26

OP here. This is my point. It basically mirrors USNWR rankings

No it doesn't. Case Western, William and Mary, Boston College, Tulane, Brandeis, Villanova are all higher here. FSU, Virginia Tech, Rutgers, Florida, OSU, Minnesota are lower.

Not perfect but close. State schools get a bump in USNWR because of Pell Grant stuff, social mobility etc

Rutgers is now ranked higher than Wake Forest. As is Boston University. US News rankings have gone off the deep end.

As they should be.

Wake Forest is meh.

But keep boosting!

But Rutgers and BU are...what exactly? Not meh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges ranked by test median with submitting % used to break ties (some of this is a year old):

Name/Median/% Submitting scores (X.XX/1.00)
MIT 1550 1.00
Duke 1550 0.93
Harvard 1550 0.74
JHU 1550 0.54
Yale 1540 0.82
Princeton 1540 0.77
Brown 1540 0.76
UChicago 1540 0.76
Rice 1540 0.72
UPenn 1540 0.70
Stanford 1540 0.69
WashU 1540 0.57
Carnegie Melon 1540 0.67
Vanderbilt 1540 0.51
Northwestern 1530 0.79
Columbia 1530 0.62
Dartmouth 1520 1.00
Cornell 1520 0.66
NYU 1520 0.39
Notre Dame 1500 0.66
Emory 1500 0.61
Tufts 1500 0.53
Northeastern 1500 0.35
Case Western 1490 0.66
USC 1490 0.46
Georgetown 1480 1.00
Boston College 1480 0.50
UMich Ann Arbor 1470 0.7
University of Virginia 1470 0.59
William & Mary 1470 0.59
Rochester 1470 0.36
UNC-CH 1460 0.63
UIUC 1450 0.56
University of Maryland (College Park) 1450 0.48
Wake Forest 1450 0.48
Tulane 1450 0.45
Brandeis 1450 0.43
BU 1450 0.4
Villanova 1450 0.36
Georgia Tech 1440 1.00
UWisconsin 1440 0.54
Stevens Insitute 1440 0.48
RPI 1430 0.6
Lehigh 1430 0.43
George Washington 1420 0.42
UMiami 1410 0.53
Binghampton 1410 0.48
Yeshiva University 1410 0.4
Santa Clara 1410 0.37
UWash 1410 0.19
Colorado School of Mines 1400 0.69
Minnesota 1400 0.42
SBU 1400 0.39
OSU 1395 0.77
UFlorida 1390 1.00
Rutgers 1380 0.55
UMass amherst 1380 0.31
American University 1370 0.36
North Carolina State 1360 0.72
Brigham Young University 1370 0.58
Virginia Tech 1360 0.54
Pitt 1360 0.5
Pepperdine 1360 0.21
University of Vermont 1340 0.46
Syracuse 1340 0.33
Purdue 1330 0.97
Drexel University 1330 0.44
UConn 1330 0.41
UGA 1320 1
FSU 1320 0.66
Clemson 1320 0.6
Auburn University 1320 0.16
Penn State 1310 0.39
SUNY Buffalo 1290 0.36
Indiana University 1280 0.57
University of Colorado Boulder 1280 0.35
University of Delaware 1280 0.28
Texas A&M 1260 0.5
University of Arizona 1260 0.35
Temple University 1260 0.26

OP here. This is my point. It basically mirrors USNWR rankings

No it doesn't. Case Western, William and Mary, Boston College, Tulane, Brandeis, Villanova are all higher here. FSU, Virginia Tech, Rutgers, Florida, OSU, Minnesota are lower.

Not perfect but close. State schools get a bump in USNWR because of Pell Grant stuff, social mobility etc

Rutgers is now ranked higher than Wake Forest. As is Boston University. US News rankings have gone off the deep end.

As they should be.

Wake Forest is meh.

But keep boosting!

But Rutgers and BU are...what exactly? Not meh?

Better than Wake Forest. 🤣

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Duke, Hopkins, Harvard, Cornell are all test optional

curious why you selected these four?

In any case they are probably not test optional for long. And at least Duke and Harvard show a clear preference for applicants with scores.

I don't think scores are the end-all-be-all but we have gone too far in the other direction.

T25s that are still TO maybe?

Harvard is not TO right now. Two of the other three will not be TO next year, already announced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Definitely not. Asian universities select SOLELY on test scores. Some European and Canadians select on a mix of test scores and grades.

The US is the epitome of a system that takes into account a host of soft skills that are difficult to quantify, such as quality of essays, extra-curricular achievements, particularly in sports, and legacy and development status.

It's absolutely normal (you'd think, right, OP?), that educational institutions pick candidates based on grades and tests scores. But the US puts significantly less emphasis on them than other countries.

Nobody even freaking knows who actually wrote the essay LOL.
If they want to do it right, they need to do the essay in SAT style.
Everyone comes to a testing site and given a prompt to write an essay on the spot.

You would think they should be able to figure out at least this much, right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges ranked by test median with submitting % used to break ties (some of this is a year old):

Name/Median/% Submitting scores (X.XX/1.00)
MIT 1550 1.00
Duke 1550 0.93
Harvard 1550 0.74
JHU 1550 0.54
Yale 1540 0.82
Princeton 1540 0.77
Brown 1540 0.76
UChicago 1540 0.76
Rice 1540 0.72
UPenn 1540 0.70
Stanford 1540 0.69
WashU 1540 0.57
Carnegie Melon 1540 0.67
Vanderbilt 1540 0.51
Northwestern 1530 0.79
Columbia 1530 0.62
Dartmouth 1520 1.00
Cornell 1520 0.66
NYU 1520 0.39
Notre Dame 1500 0.66
Emory 1500 0.61
Tufts 1500 0.53
Northeastern 1500 0.35
Case Western 1490 0.66
USC 1490 0.46
Georgetown 1480 1.00
Boston College 1480 0.50
UMich Ann Arbor 1470 0.7
University of Virginia 1470 0.59
William & Mary 1470 0.59
Rochester 1470 0.36
UNC-CH 1460 0.63
UIUC 1450 0.56
University of Maryland (College Park) 1450 0.48
Wake Forest 1450 0.48
Tulane 1450 0.45
Brandeis 1450 0.43
BU 1450 0.4
Villanova 1450 0.36
Georgia Tech 1440 1.00
UWisconsin 1440 0.54
Stevens Insitute 1440 0.48
RPI 1430 0.6
Lehigh 1430 0.43
George Washington 1420 0.42
UMiami 1410 0.53
Binghampton 1410 0.48
Yeshiva University 1410 0.4
Santa Clara 1410 0.37
UWash 1410 0.19
Colorado School of Mines 1400 0.69
Minnesota 1400 0.42
SBU 1400 0.39
OSU 1395 0.77
UFlorida 1390 1.00
Rutgers 1380 0.55
UMass amherst 1380 0.31
American University 1370 0.36
North Carolina State 1360 0.72
Brigham Young University 1370 0.58
Virginia Tech 1360 0.54
Pitt 1360 0.5
Pepperdine 1360 0.21
University of Vermont 1340 0.46
Syracuse 1340 0.33
Purdue 1330 0.97
Drexel University 1330 0.44
UConn 1330 0.41
UGA 1320 1
FSU 1320 0.66
Clemson 1320 0.6
Auburn University 1320 0.16
Penn State 1310 0.39
SUNY Buffalo 1290 0.36
Indiana University 1280 0.57
University of Colorado Boulder 1280 0.35
University of Delaware 1280 0.28
Texas A&M 1260 0.5
University of Arizona 1260 0.35
Temple University 1260 0.26

Interesting. Johns Hopkins stands out as overrated and Georgetown stands out as underrated…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges ranked by test median with submitting % used to break ties (some of this is a year old):

Name/Median/% Submitting scores (X.XX/1.00)
MIT 1550 1.00
Duke 1550 0.93
Harvard 1550 0.74
JHU 1550 0.54
Yale 1540 0.82
Princeton 1540 0.77
Brown 1540 0.76
UChicago 1540 0.76
Rice 1540 0.72
UPenn 1540 0.70
Stanford 1540 0.69
WashU 1540 0.57
Carnegie Melon 1540 0.67
Vanderbilt 1540 0.51
Northwestern 1530 0.79
Columbia 1530 0.62
Dartmouth 1520 1.00
Cornell 1520 0.66
NYU 1520 0.39
Notre Dame 1500 0.66
Emory 1500 0.61
Tufts 1500 0.53
Northeastern 1500 0.35
Case Western 1490 0.66
USC 1490 0.46
Georgetown 1480 1.00
Boston College 1480 0.50
UMich Ann Arbor 1470 0.7
University of Virginia 1470 0.59
William & Mary 1470 0.59
Rochester 1470 0.36
UNC-CH 1460 0.63
UIUC 1450 0.56
University of Maryland (College Park) 1450 0.48
Wake Forest 1450 0.48
Tulane 1450 0.45
Brandeis 1450 0.43
BU 1450 0.4
Villanova 1450 0.36
Georgia Tech 1440 1.00
UWisconsin 1440 0.54
Stevens Insitute 1440 0.48
RPI 1430 0.6
Lehigh 1430 0.43
George Washington 1420 0.42
UMiami 1410 0.53
Binghampton 1410 0.48
Yeshiva University 1410 0.4
Santa Clara 1410 0.37
UWash 1410 0.19
Colorado School of Mines 1400 0.69
Minnesota 1400 0.42
SBU 1400 0.39
OSU 1395 0.77
UFlorida 1390 1.00
Rutgers 1380 0.55
UMass amherst 1380 0.31
American University 1370 0.36
North Carolina State 1360 0.72
Brigham Young University 1370 0.58
Virginia Tech 1360 0.54
Pitt 1360 0.5
Pepperdine 1360 0.21
University of Vermont 1340 0.46
Syracuse 1340 0.33
Purdue 1330 0.97
Drexel University 1330 0.44
UConn 1330 0.41
UGA 1320 1
FSU 1320 0.66
Clemson 1320 0.6
Auburn University 1320 0.16
Penn State 1310 0.39
SUNY Buffalo 1290 0.36
Indiana University 1280 0.57
University of Colorado Boulder 1280 0.35
University of Delaware 1280 0.28
Texas A&M 1260 0.5
University of Arizona 1260 0.35
Temple University 1260 0.26

Interesting. Johns Hopkins stands out as overrated and Georgetown stands out as underrated…

Georgetown's US News rank is higher than its rank on this list where it lands at around #26. Wake Forest and co. are the real underrated schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges ranked by test median with submitting % used to break ties (some of this is a year old):

Name/Median/% Submitting scores (X.XX/1.00)
MIT 1550 1.00
Duke 1550 0.93
Harvard 1550 0.74
JHU 1550 0.54
Yale 1540 0.82
Princeton 1540 0.77
Brown 1540 0.76
UChicago 1540 0.76
Rice 1540 0.72
UPenn 1540 0.70
Stanford 1540 0.69
WashU 1540 0.57
Carnegie Melon 1540 0.67
Vanderbilt 1540 0.51
Northwestern 1530 0.79
Columbia 1530 0.62
Dartmouth 1520 1.00
Cornell 1520 0.66
NYU 1520 0.39
Notre Dame 1500 0.66
Emory 1500 0.61
Tufts 1500 0.53
Northeastern 1500 0.35
Case Western 1490 0.66
USC 1490 0.46
Georgetown 1480 1.00
Boston College 1480 0.50
UMich Ann Arbor 1470 0.7
University of Virginia 1470 0.59
William & Mary 1470 0.59
Rochester 1470 0.36
UNC-CH 1460 0.63
UIUC 1450 0.56
University of Maryland (College Park) 1450 0.48
Wake Forest 1450 0.48
Tulane 1450 0.45
Brandeis 1450 0.43
BU 1450 0.4
Villanova 1450 0.36
Georgia Tech 1440 1.00
UWisconsin 1440 0.54
Stevens Insitute 1440 0.48
RPI 1430 0.6
Lehigh 1430 0.43
George Washington 1420 0.42
UMiami 1410 0.53
Binghampton 1410 0.48
Yeshiva University 1410 0.4
Santa Clara 1410 0.37
UWash 1410 0.19
Colorado School of Mines 1400 0.69
Minnesota 1400 0.42
SBU 1400 0.39
OSU 1395 0.77
UFlorida 1390 1.00
Rutgers 1380 0.55
UMass amherst 1380 0.31
American University 1370 0.36
North Carolina State 1360 0.72
Brigham Young University 1370 0.58
Virginia Tech 1360 0.54
Pitt 1360 0.5
Pepperdine 1360 0.21
University of Vermont 1340 0.46
Syracuse 1340 0.33
Purdue 1330 0.97
Drexel University 1330 0.44
UConn 1330 0.41
UGA 1320 1
FSU 1320 0.66
Clemson 1320 0.6
Auburn University 1320 0.16
Penn State 1310 0.39
SUNY Buffalo 1290 0.36
Indiana University 1280 0.57
University of Colorado Boulder 1280 0.35
University of Delaware 1280 0.28
Texas A&M 1260 0.5
University of Arizona 1260 0.35
Temple University 1260 0.26

Interesting. Johns Hopkins stands out as overrated and Georgetown stands out as underrated…

Georgetown's US News rank is higher than its rank on this list where it lands at around #26. Wake Forest and co. are the real underrated schools.

As others have noted- Georgetown is not test optional so the average is lower. Same goes for Dartmouth and some other schools. Probably makes sense to add or subtract 10 SAT points per 10 pct TO. Set every school to 70 pct submitted. At least for the top 25

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most highly ranked schools have the highest score profiles and it gradually declines as you go down the list. It’s all just a sorting mechanism based on test scores (outside of hooks). It seems nearly impossible that an unhooked student can get into a T15 type school without super high scores. Ironically TO may have made the emphasis on scores more pronounced because unhooked students essentially need great scores. For all the yapping about curating a class, they are really just filling their classes when the highest scoring kids they can get. This shouldn’t be interpreted as meaning a high score automatically gets you in anywhere.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

If if were true that you need really high test scores to get into T15, you wouldn't see score report percentages below 95%. It's logical to assume that every TO admitted student had a test score below the reported median. Given grade inflation, we know a limited amount about those students.

I agree with that completely. My post was regarding the OP of the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most highly ranked schools have the highest score profiles and it gradually declines as you go down the list. It’s all just a sorting mechanism based on test scores (outside of hooks). It seems nearly impossible that an unhooked student can get into a T15 type school without super high scores. Ironically TO may have made the emphasis on scores more pronounced because unhooked students essentially need great scores. For all the yapping about curating a class, they are really just filling their classes when the highest scoring kids they can get. This shouldn’t be interpreted as meaning a high score automatically gets you in anywhere.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

If if were true that you need really high test scores to get into T15, you wouldn't see score report percentages below 95%. It's logical to assume that every TO admitted student had a test score below the reported median. Given grade inflation, we know a limited amount about those students.

I agree with that completely. My post was regarding the OP of the thread.

OP here - I wonder actually if the rankings themselves drive the correlation and are in a way self fulfilling- people have individual preferences on the margin but everyone generally wants to attend the highest ranked school possible - so the higher the ranking, the more interest - and the most highly ranked schools end up with the highest test score profile - because all things being equal a school is going to prefer a high test score to a low one if it has an abundance of applicants from which to choose.

It’s also clear that schools recognize the competitive need to have a strong test score profile and within the context of their institutional priorities they make sure they are getting their numbers up as high as they can

At the end of the day test scores are the only objective statistic they have to work with to demonstrate their superiority

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most highly ranked schools have the highest score profiles and it gradually declines as you go down the list. It’s all just a sorting mechanism based on test scores (outside of hooks). It seems nearly impossible that an unhooked student can get into a T15 type school without super high scores. Ironically TO may have made the emphasis on scores more pronounced because unhooked students essentially need great scores. For all the yapping about curating a class, they are really just filling their classes when the highest scoring kids they can get. This shouldn’t be interpreted as meaning a high score automatically gets you in anywhere.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

If if were true that you need really high test scores to get into T15, you wouldn't see score report percentages below 95%. It's logical to assume that every TO admitted student had a test score below the reported median. Given grade inflation, we know a limited amount about those students.

I agree with that completely. My post was regarding the OP of the thread.

OP here - I wonder actually if the rankings themselves drive the correlation and are in a way self fulfilling- people have individual preferences on the margin but everyone generally wants to attend the highest ranked school possible - so the higher the ranking, the more interest - and the most highly ranked schools end up with the highest test score profile - because all things being equal a school is going to prefer a high test score to a low one if it has an abundance of applicants from which to choose.

It’s also clear that schools recognize the competitive need to have a strong test score profile and within the context of their institutional priorities they make sure they are getting their numbers up as high as they can

At the end of the day test scores are the only objective statistic they have to work with to demonstrate their superiority

Wrong again. Look at William and Mary—they have the same incoming test stats as UVA—how do you account for this? Look at Wake Forest—much higher stats than their ranking superior Rutgers University in New Jersey—how do you account for this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most highly ranked schools have the highest score profiles and it gradually declines as you go down the list. It’s all just a sorting mechanism based on test scores (outside of hooks). It seems nearly impossible that an unhooked student can get into a T15 type school without super high scores. Ironically TO may have made the emphasis on scores more pronounced because unhooked students essentially need great scores. For all the yapping about curating a class, they are really just filling their classes when the highest scoring kids they can get. This shouldn’t be interpreted as meaning a high score automatically gets you in anywhere.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

If if were true that you need really high test scores to get into T15, you wouldn't see score report percentages below 95%. It's logical to assume that every TO admitted student had a test score below the reported median. Given grade inflation, we know a limited amount about those students.

Hooked students are the ones with low scores or no scores. Athletes, URM, FG, development- the rest of the class is chosen among the highest scoring group the school can attract.

Do you really think that a full 49% of Vanderbilt students, 30% of Penn students, 38% of Columbia students, and 34% of Cornell students are "hooked"? If true, that's truly depressing. I'd imagine the number is closer to 10-15% though.

Yes. Athletes alone are 20-35 pct.

Columbia has nearly 9000 undergraduate students. No way that 1800 of them are athletes. Maybe at SLACs, but not larger schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges ranked by test median with submitting % used to break ties (some of this is a year old):

Name/Median/% Submitting scores (X.XX/1.00)
MIT 1550 1.00
Duke 1550 0.93
Harvard 1550 0.74
JHU 1550 0.54
Yale 1540 0.82
Princeton 1540 0.77
Brown 1540 0.76
UChicago 1540 0.76
Rice 1540 0.72
UPenn 1540 0.70
Stanford 1540 0.69
WashU 1540 0.57
Carnegie Melon 1540 0.67
Vanderbilt 1540 0.51
Northwestern 1530 0.79
Columbia 1530 0.62
Dartmouth 1520 1.00
Cornell 1520 0.66
NYU 1520 0.39
Notre Dame 1500 0.66
Emory 1500 0.61
Tufts 1500 0.53
Northeastern 1500 0.35
Case Western 1490 0.66
USC 1490 0.46
Georgetown 1480 1.00
Boston College 1480 0.50
UMich Ann Arbor 1470 0.7
University of Virginia 1470 0.59
William & Mary 1470 0.59
Rochester 1470 0.36
UNC-CH 1460 0.63
UIUC 1450 0.56
University of Maryland (College Park) 1450 0.48
Wake Forest 1450 0.48
Tulane 1450 0.45
Brandeis 1450 0.43
BU 1450 0.4
Villanova 1450 0.36
Georgia Tech 1440 1.00
UWisconsin 1440 0.54
Stevens Insitute 1440 0.48
RPI 1430 0.6
Lehigh 1430 0.43
George Washington 1420 0.42
UMiami 1410 0.53
Binghampton 1410 0.48
Yeshiva University 1410 0.4
Santa Clara 1410 0.37
UWash 1410 0.19
Colorado School of Mines 1400 0.69
Minnesota 1400 0.42
SBU 1400 0.39
OSU 1395 0.77
UFlorida 1390 1.00
Rutgers 1380 0.55
UMass amherst 1380 0.31
American University 1370 0.36
North Carolina State 1360 0.72
Brigham Young University 1370 0.58
Virginia Tech 1360 0.54
Pitt 1360 0.5
Pepperdine 1360 0.21
University of Vermont 1340 0.46
Syracuse 1340 0.33
Purdue 1330 0.97
Drexel University 1330 0.44
UConn 1330 0.41
UGA 1320 1
FSU 1320 0.66
Clemson 1320 0.6
Auburn University 1320 0.16
Penn State 1310 0.39
SUNY Buffalo 1290 0.36
Indiana University 1280 0.57
University of Colorado Boulder 1280 0.35
University of Delaware 1280 0.28
Texas A&M 1260 0.5
University of Arizona 1260 0.35
Temple University 1260 0.26

Whare are SLACs? Are they not worthy to be ranked?