demographics chipping away at college industrial complex

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top is actually doing great. Most diverse economic and racial elite we’ve had in history. Students are all qualified to attend, maybe their stats are different but they all have the academic potential to excel. More people than ever can afford an elite education.

At the lower level, state schools are taking control over the lost lac applicants and rising costs of college. A lot of state schools are serving a different and expanded range of students

What is "racial elite"?

Most of American history, it was unthinkable that many people of color could reach the top and succeed; there were so many barriers. We have removed a ton and now we have a much more racially diverse elite class. It’s that simple.

Correction: Most of American history (1600s to the 1970s or so), African Americans were banned from succeeding in certain areas, barriers is not a strong enough word, and most other groups in your contrived POC coalition have not been here long enough to be included in a "most of American history" conversation.

? You think Asian and Hispanic Americans just dropped in the US. They were standing by black Americans for the civil rights act and various other political freedoms we take for granted.

No, they were not. One because they were not here in large numbers, and two, African Americans were the particular targets of the discrimination that the Civil rights movement addressed.

+1

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 was passed AFTER the Civil Rights Act of 1964. African Americans via fighting for equal rights paved the way for many more Asians and Hispanics to come to the U.S. and spurred other movements.

Better recognize.

I don’t think the person you agreed with agrees with you at all. They seem to outright deny that fact.

No, they agree. The point is that immigrants came and have benefited from the African American struggle and their fight for equality, so no, there wasn't a sort of POC coalition to fight for POC rights in American history. African Americans, with white and Jewish (yes lots of Jewish people and yes some consider themselves white and some don't I don't have an opinion on that that is for them to share with us) allies fought for African American freedom from Jim Crow and other types of discrimination. Immigrants benefited from the U.S. finally living up to its principles to come as economic migrants. Immigrants do not care about African Americans beyond invoking our work to change the nation to make historical analogies to benefit them, so don't ask us to engage in a fake "POC" solidarity with you on your terms only.

Yup, no generalizations here. Immigrants (all immigrants) do not care………..

You are falling for the old divide and rule trick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://hechingerreport.org/the-impact-of-this-is-economic-decline/

15% decrease in college attendance in decade before covid.

10% decrease in 18 year olds in next decade.

Colleges will see more pressure to lower prices. Students will see less pressure In admissions.

The oligarchs are terrified of losing their wage slaves.

Yeah I don’t see that happening. My guess is that the number of spots for international applicants will increase. I wish it would slow down price increases and help with admissions but I doubt it.
I do think that colleges esp. not top ones will need to figure something out. Maybe consolidate schools or offer online degrees?

Even international applicants know a degree from DeVry is not prestigious, and perhaps, actually detrimental.
The race for international applicants who pay full fare has been going on amongst the suffering lesser schools for more than a decade. By now, most international markets have wised up to the value of such degrees. Once upon a time a family could brag their child attended college in the US. Now international employers ask where and look askance at no name schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://hechingerreport.org/the-impact-of-this-is-economic-decline/

15% decrease in college attendance in decade before covid.

10% decrease in 18 year olds in next decade.

Colleges will see more pressure to lower prices. Students will see less pressure In admissions.

The oligarchs are terrified of losing their wage slaves.

Yeah I don’t see that happening. My guess is that the number of spots for international applicants will increase. I wish it would slow down price increases and help with admissions but I doubt it.
I do think that colleges esp. not top ones will need to figure something out. Maybe consolidate schools or offer online degrees?

Even international applicants know a degree from DeVry is not prestigious, and perhaps, actually detrimental.
The race for international applicants who pay full fare has been going on amongst the suffering lesser schools for more than a decade. By now, most international markets have wised up to the value of such degrees. Once upon a time a family could brag their child attended college in the US. Now international employers ask where and look askance at no name schools.

What about places like Virginia Tech, Penn State

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://hechingerreport.org/the-impact-of-this-is-economic-decline/

15% decrease in college attendance in decade before covid.

10% decrease in 18 year olds in next decade.

Colleges will see more pressure to lower prices. Students will see less pressure In admissions.

The oligarchs are terrified of losing their wage slaves.

Yeah I don’t see that happening. My guess is that the number of spots for international applicants will increase. I wish it would slow down price increases and help with admissions but I doubt it.
I do think that colleges esp. not top ones will need to figure something out. Maybe consolidate schools or offer online degrees?

Even international applicants know a degree from DeVry is not prestigious, and perhaps, actually detrimental.
The race for international applicants who pay full fare has been going on amongst the suffering lesser schools for more than a decade. By now, most international markets have wised up to the value of such degrees. Once upon a time a family could brag their child attended college in the US. Now international employers ask where and look askance at no name schools.

What about places like Virginia Tech, Penn State

About the same as DeVry based on the T75 comment from a PP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this might be a good thing. If a college is outside the t75 I question why it exists/why people attend. Even Penn State level places are sort of questionable... Bottom line is no one will be missing much.

Why is the number 75 special to you?

There are hundreds of colleges below t75 where people train to become nurses, for example.

Now, a liberal arts degree at a low ranked school, you better be rich before you go.

Not to mention most of the state flagship universities. By this reckoning, many states shouldn't have any universities at all so you think all intelligent, motivated people should have to go elsewhere for an education?

Most already do.

Most college students stay close to home - median distance 94 miles, 75th percentile is only 230 miles. It's higher among those with high SAT scores -- 234 miles for 1500+ and 179 for 1400-1490. But that's still not far and for many students is likely their state's top university.
https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ838811#:~:text=The%20median%20distance%20students%20go,education%2C%20ethnicity%2C%20and%20gender.

Thanks for sending.

SAT scores
Examining the average distance students go away for college by SAT scores, the positive trend between the two variables is readily apparent. As one's SAT score increases so does the average (median) distance they travel to college. The correlation between students' SAT score and distance from home was 0.15 (p <.001). Figure 1 provides the median distance students go away to college by 100 point score bands. For example, the median distance for low performing students (n = 699), who scored between 400 and 490, is 42 miles. How-ever, for the highest performers, who scored between 1500
and 1600 (n = 9,294), the median distance jumps to 234
miles. That is roughly 5.6 times further

They found the same for GPA. This proves my point and is very interesting. Genuinely thanks for sending, very cool.

I don’t think that says what you think it says…..unless “most” equals the top 2%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think its bizarre than anyone thinks the price of anything would ever go down -- college, groceries, health insurance..... The rate of increases might slow, but the price of something is never going to be less next year, or five years from now, than it is now. The only time the price for the *same product goes down* is when, for example, real estate somewhere becomes totally devalued (see: Detroit, Baltimore) or we have something like the Great Depression and demand for everything drops more than 25 percent because there is massive unemployment.

Japan would like a word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this might be a good thing. If a college is outside the t75 I question why it exists/why people attend. Even Penn State level places are sort of questionable... Bottom line is no one will be missing much.

Why is the number 75 special to you?

There are hundreds of colleges below t75 where people train to become nurses, for example.

Now, a liberal arts degree at a low ranked school, you better be rich before you go.

Not to mention most of the state flagship universities. By this reckoning, many states shouldn't have any universities at all so you think all intelligent, motivated people should have to go elsewhere for an education?

Most already do.

Most college students stay close to home - median distance 94 miles, 75th percentile is only 230 miles. It's higher among those with high SAT scores -- 234 miles for 1500+ and 179 for 1400-1490. But that's still not far and for many students is likely their state's top university.
https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ838811#:~:text=The%20median%20distance%20students%20go,education%2C%20ethnicity%2C%20and%20gender.

Thanks for sending.

SAT scores
Examining the average distance students go away for college by SAT scores, the positive trend between the two variables is readily apparent. As one's SAT score increases so does the average (median) distance they travel to college. The correlation between students' SAT score and distance from home was 0.15 (p <.001). Figure 1 provides the median distance students go away to college by 100 point score bands. For example, the median distance for low performing students (n = 699), who scored between 400 and 490, is 42 miles. How-ever, for the highest performers, who scored between 1500
and 1600 (n = 9,294), the median distance jumps to 234
miles. That is roughly 5.6 times further

They found the same for GPA. This proves my point and is very interesting. Genuinely thanks for sending, very cool.

I don’t think that says what you think it says…..unless “most” equals the top 2%

The question original poster said "intelligent, motivated people" and then the next poster said "most [intelligent, motivated people] already do" if you read up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top is actually doing great. Most diverse economic and racial elite we’ve had in history. Students are all qualified to attend, maybe their stats are different but they all have the academic potential to excel. More people than ever can afford an elite education.

At the lower level, state schools are taking control over the lost lac applicants and rising costs of college. A lot of state schools are serving a different and expanded range of students

What is "racial elite"?

Most of American history, it was unthinkable that many people of color could reach the top and succeed; there were so many barriers. We have removed a ton and now we have a much more racially diverse elite class. It’s that simple.

Correction: Most of American history (1600s to the 1970s or so), African Americans were banned from succeeding in certain areas, barriers is not a strong enough word, and most other groups in your contrived POC coalition have not been here long enough to be included in a "most of American history" conversation.

? You think Asian and Hispanic Americans just dropped in the US. They were standing by black Americans for the civil rights act and various other political freedoms we take for granted.

No, they were not. One because they were not here in large numbers, and two, African Americans were the particular targets of the discrimination that the Civil rights movement addressed.

+1

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 was passed AFTER the Civil Rights Act of 1964. African Americans via fighting for equal rights paved the way for many more Asians and Hispanics to come to the U.S. and spurred other movements.

Better recognize.

I don’t think the person you agreed with agrees with you at all. They seem to outright deny that fact.

No, they agree. The point is that immigrants came and have benefited from the African American struggle and their fight for equality, so no, there wasn't a sort of POC coalition to fight for POC rights in American history. African Americans, with white and Jewish (yes lots of Jewish people and yes some consider themselves white and some don't I don't have an opinion on that that is for them to share with us) allies fought for African American freedom from Jim Crow and other types of discrimination. Immigrants benefited from the U.S. finally living up to its principles to come as economic migrants. Immigrants do not care about African Americans beyond invoking our work to change the nation to make historical analogies to benefit them, so don't ask us to engage in a fake "POC" solidarity with you on your terms only.

NP. Some POCs weren't immigrants. The US stole large swaths of territory from Mexico and that territory wasn't just unoccupied. Native Americans were considered POCs and used to be a much larger percentage. While there weren't massive numbers of Asian Americans there certainly were Asian immigrants brought here to build railways.

Maybe everyone is somewhat right and somewhat wrong in the discussion above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think its bizarre than anyone thinks the price of anything would ever go down -- college, groceries, health insurance..... The rate of increases might slow, but the price of something is never going to be less next year, or five years from now, than it is now. The only time the price for the *same product goes down* is when, for example, real estate somewhere becomes totally devalued (see: Detroit, Baltimore) or we have something like the Great Depression and demand for everything drops more than 25 percent because there is massive unemployment.

What are you talking about? Prices for lots of things go down. TVs to name just one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this might be a good thing. If a college is outside the t75 I question why it exists/why people attend. Even Penn State level places are sort of questionable... Bottom line is no one will be missing much.

Penn State does a billion dollars a year in research. It is not questionable that it will exist and people will attend. Penn State makes considerable more contributions to academia than Tulane. No slight on Tulane intended, but they just aren’t comparable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top is actually doing great. Most diverse economic and racial elite we’ve had in history. Students are all qualified to attend, maybe their stats are different but they all have the academic potential to excel. More people than ever can afford an elite education.

At the lower level, state schools are taking control over the lost lac applicants and rising costs of college. A lot of state schools are serving a different and expanded range of students

What is "racial elite"?

Most of American history, it was unthinkable that many people of color could reach the top and succeed; there were so many barriers. We have removed a ton and now we have a much more racially diverse elite class. It’s that simple.

Correction: Most of American history (1600s to the 1970s or so), African Americans were banned from succeeding in certain areas, barriers is not a strong enough word, and most other groups in your contrived POC coalition have not been here long enough to be included in a "most of American history" conversation.

? You think Asian and Hispanic Americans just dropped in the US. They were standing by black Americans for the civil rights act and various other political freedoms we take for granted.

No, they were not. One because they were not here in large numbers, and two, African Americans were the particular targets of the discrimination that the Civil rights movement addressed.

+1

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 was passed AFTER the Civil Rights Act of 1964. African Americans via fighting for equal rights paved the way for many more Asians and Hispanics to come to the U.S. and spurred other movements.

Better recognize.

I don’t think the person you agreed with agrees with you at all. They seem to outright deny that fact.

No, they agree. The point is that immigrants came and have benefited from the African American struggle and their fight for equality, so no, there wasn't a sort of POC coalition to fight for POC rights in American history. African Americans, with white and Jewish (yes lots of Jewish people and yes some consider themselves white and some don't I don't have an opinion on that that is for them to share with us) allies fought for African American freedom from Jim Crow and other types of discrimination. Immigrants benefited from the U.S. finally living up to its principles to come as economic migrants. Immigrants do not care about African Americans beyond invoking our work to change the nation to make historical analogies to benefit them, so don't ask us to engage in a fake "POC" solidarity with you on your terms only.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this might be a good thing. If a college is outside the t75 I question why it exists/why people attend. Even Penn State level places are sort of questionable... Bottom line is no one will be missing much.

Penn State does a billion dollars a year in research. It is not questionable that it will exist and people will attend. Penn State makes considerable more contributions to academia than Tulane. No slight on Tulane intended, but they just aren’t comparable.

No connection to Tulane, no connection to Penn State.

Tulane has higher standards than Penn State in terms of academics/intelligence. Tulane's reputation as a selective university is far superior to Penn State's. It's the difference between Rutgers and Wake Forest. If you want a massive state school that doesn't have strict standards, go to Rutgers. If you want a smaller more selective university, go to Wake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its bizarre than anyone thinks the price of anything would ever go down -- college, groceries, health insurance..... The rate of increases might slow, but the price of something is never going to be less next year, or five years from now, than it is now. The only time the price for the *same product goes down* is when, for example, real estate somewhere becomes totally devalued (see: Detroit, Baltimore) or we have something like the Great Depression and demand for everything drops more than 25 percent because there is massive unemployment.

Japan would like a word.

And every economist hates them for it, while they enjoy the boosted quality of life and “stagnant” economy. I think we could learn a bit from them by not constantly wanting to grow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top is actually doing great. Most diverse economic and racial elite we’ve had in history. Students are all qualified to attend, maybe their stats are different but they all have the academic potential to excel. More people than ever can afford an elite education.

At the lower level, state schools are taking control over the lost lac applicants and rising costs of college. A lot of state schools are serving a different and expanded range of students

What is "racial elite"?

Most of American history, it was unthinkable that many people of color could reach the top and succeed; there were so many barriers. We have removed a ton and now we have a much more racially diverse elite class. It’s that simple.

Correction: Most of American history (1600s to the 1970s or so), African Americans were banned from succeeding in certain areas, barriers is not a strong enough word, and most other groups in your contrived POC coalition have not been here long enough to be included in a "most of American history" conversation.

? You think Asian and Hispanic Americans just dropped in the US. They were standing by black Americans for the civil rights act and various other political freedoms we take for granted.

No, they were not. One because they were not here in large numbers, and two, African Americans were the particular targets of the discrimination that the Civil rights movement addressed.

+1

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 was passed AFTER the Civil Rights Act of 1964. African Americans via fighting for equal rights paved the way for many more Asians and Hispanics to come to the U.S. and spurred other movements.

Better recognize.

It's pretty well recognized by historians that the immigration naturalization act was the result of the cold war.
There is a pretty good argument that the civil rights act was also the result of the cold war.

The racism was making america look bad on the world stage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top is actually doing great. Most diverse economic and racial elite we’ve had in history. Students are all qualified to attend, maybe their stats are different but they all have the academic potential to excel. More people than ever can afford an elite education.

At the lower level, state schools are taking control over the lost lac applicants and rising costs of college. A lot of state schools are serving a different and expanded range of students

What is "racial elite"?

Most of American history, it was unthinkable that many people of color could reach the top and succeed; there were so many barriers. We have removed a ton and now we have a much more racially diverse elite class. It’s that simple.

We did more than remove barriers. We provided preferences.