Sigh... DD and friends are excluding other kids via group chats

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be blunt, I checked your phone and your behavior isn't ok and you are losing your phone for a week.

+1
My kids understand there is no expectation of privacy on their devices.

+1. All parents should make that clear. No expectation of privacy in the room either. I knock and ask permission to enter if they are in there. But I can search anything I want, any time I want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this is your main beef?
“Yesterday, I found something she said about how Larla (one of the excluded children) doesn't have instagram or tiktok because if she got it, she wouldn't have any followers.”

Honestly, that comment is just run of the mill girl chatter and certainly not something I’d intervene over.

I’ll also say it’s normal for all kids to have different group chats. It’s not exclusionary.

Did you miss the part about posting photos of other kids making fun of them?

I did miss that! Reading failure.
That changes my opinion completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sending pictures is particularly harmful and dangerous.

I'd have a blunt conversation about this. Have her imagine that these texts were printed out and plastered all over the school. How would she feel? How would her friends feel? Would she proud of this?

Teen girls might pick each other apart, but putting it in writing like this is absolutely a horrible idea. She might feel annoyed with one girl, say something mean in person, and everyone would forget the next day. On a text thread? That lives FOREVER. She needs to understand it.

I'm not sure what I'd do for "punishment" but I'd absolutely make sure she knows that if I am paying for her plan, I better not ever see trash talk from her on that phone again.

OP here. Thanks, this is helpful. I think she knows all of this, since DH and I have made a point to discuss bullying and its negative effects with her before. I feel like she's a little too old to "punish" in the traditional sense of the word- grounding her or taking away things is only going to make her feel angry at me. I don't want all of her focus to be on hating me- she needs to feel accountable. I have no problem being the bad cop, though.

She is not too old to be punished. I have a 15 year old. I have zero issue taking the phone or a day or a week or weeks. I want my kid to have a way to contact me. We switched the phone for a cellular watch. If they are angry at me oh well…..it’s called being a parent and sometimes you have to be unpopular with them. If you talked to her before and it did not work, time for consequences. Do you want her to be a mean girl?

[Anonymous]

All teens can be jerks but I don’t know…posting pics of your own friends to make fun of them to other friends just seems particularly vile. Like why even be friends with people you don’t like?

Honestly I’m not a phone taker but I’d consider it. But I’d want to get to the root of whatever nastiness is going on inside my daughter and/or her friends

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sending pictures is particularly harmful and dangerous.

I'd have a blunt conversation about this. Have her imagine that these texts were printed out and plastered all over the school. How would she feel? How would her friends feel? Would she proud of this?

Teen girls might pick each other apart, but putting it in writing like this is absolutely a horrible idea. She might feel annoyed with one girl, say something mean in person, and everyone would forget the next day. On a text thread? That lives FOREVER. She needs to understand it.

I'm not sure what I'd do for "punishment" but I'd absolutely make sure she knows that if I am paying for her plan, I better not ever see trash talk from her on that phone again.

OP here. Thanks, this is helpful. I think she knows all of this, since DH and I have made a point to discuss bullying and its negative effects with her before. I feel like she's a little too old to "punish" in the traditional sense of the word- grounding her or taking away things is only going to make her feel angry at me. I don't want all of her focus to be on hating me- she needs to feel accountable. I have no problem being the bad cop, though.

Oh wow. Being afraid of your teen being mad at you is not a good way to parent. Having a phone and social media is an immense privilege and responsibility. Teens should know that if they prove themselves unable to handle the responsibility (as your daughter has done) that the responsibility will be removed from them for a while. Done calmly and with an explanation. It is okay if she is mad at you. You are protecting her and educating her.

[Anonymous]

OP- there’s a balance you have to strike here that has a lot to do with who you and your kid are. I’m not in favor of the “take phone away as punishment” default to everything. Then they get it back and what have they learned? I AM in favor of kids experiencing a sense of shame when they’ve done something s#&tty. I got called out for passing a note to a friend in eighth grade where I said something mean about another friend, the teacher intercepted the note and kept me after class. I still remember how terrible that felt and she was absolutely right to hold me accountable for what I said and what I did. In your case, taking the phone away may make sense since this was phone specific activity and the picture thing is really problematic. But you can’t punish a kid just for being a jerk, teenagers are jerks to each other. So I think what you need is to have, a truly serious conversation with your kid and really expressed disappointment in how they’ve conducted themselves. They need to feel bad about this. Whether or not you decide to “punish” I think as much less important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this is your main beef?
“Yesterday, I found something she said about how Larla (one of the excluded children) doesn't have instagram or tiktok because if she got it, she wouldn't have any followers.”

Honestly, that comment is just run of the mill girl chatter and certainly not something I’d intervene over.

I’ll also say it’s normal for all kids to have different group chats. It’s not exclusionary.

Do you think that girl would appreciate that if she saw it? OP is lucky this hasn’t blown up in her daughter’s face yet, but it will. And no, that kind of comment isn’t exactly normal in the first place.

The picture thing is snotty, but honestly the comments, or excluding other girls in a smaller chat is nothing new. This happened, minus the technology, when I was this age in the 80s. We wrote notes to each other, and we'd say not-very-nice things about other girls. Or in groups, we'd talk about other girls in catty and obnoxious ways. This is as old as time.

At the ripe old age of my mid-50s, looking back I wish I hadn't been so catty and obnoxious. I was also on the other end of it too as the target of unflattering comments and I know talked about behind my back, but I wish I had been more secure and didn't feel the need to do it myself.

That said, the difference today is this can all be screenshotted and shared very widely. OP should definitely talk to her DD about being kind to others, never knowing what someone else is going through, even the girls she may think are a worthy target are figuring out life too and deserve grace. But also point out that life comes as you fast, and the girl who you're gossiping about now could end up being her best friend down the line, and what if someone shares screen shots of what you've said? It's like when the notes we passed in class back in the olden days were intercepted and shared with the target. I was mortified when that happened one time and it did give me a wake-up call.

This. I wouldn’t punish her, but I would bring up your concerns, and that because she is a child and you are the parent, her phone will be spot checked occasionally, for her own benefit and teaching, not to “catch” her. And because of what you saw, it’s a teaching moment now. Girls in groups can be mean and terrible, even if as individual people they aren’t. Texts can be forever, and taking and sharing pictures them of someone without permission is obv problematic so talk about why. Make this about teaching, not about catching her and being punished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- there’s a balance you have to strike here that has a lot to do with who you and your kid are. I’m not in favor of the “take phone away as punishment” default to everything. Then they get it back and what have they learned? I AM in favor of kids experiencing a sense of shame when they’ve done something s#&tty. I got called out for passing a note to a friend in eighth grade where I said something mean about another friend, the teacher intercepted the note and kept me after class. I still remember how terrible that felt and she was absolutely right to hold me accountable for what I said and what I did. In your case, taking the phone away may make sense since this was phone specific activity and the picture thing is really problematic. But you can’t punish a kid just for being a jerk, teenagers are jerks to each other. So I think what you need is to have, a truly serious conversation with your kid and really expressed disappointment in how they’ve conducted themselves. They need to feel bad about this. Whether or not you decide to “punish” I think as much less important.

Kid is not experiencing Shane and hurting others. Yea you can punish kids for being jerks and try to stop the behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sending pictures is particularly harmful and dangerous.

I'd have a blunt conversation about this. Have her imagine that these texts were printed out and plastered all over the school. How would she feel? How would her friends feel? Would she proud of this?

Teen girls might pick each other apart, but putting it in writing like this is absolutely a horrible idea. She might feel annoyed with one girl, say something mean in person, and everyone would forget the next day. On a text thread? That lives FOREVER. She needs to understand it.

I'm not sure what I'd do for "punishment" but I'd absolutely make sure she knows that if I am paying for her plan, I better not ever see trash talk from her on that phone again.

OP here. Thanks, this is helpful. I think she knows all of this, since DH and I have made a point to discuss bullying and its negative effects with her before. I feel like she's a little too old to "punish" in the traditional sense of the word- grounding her or taking away things is only going to make her feel angry at me. I don't want all of her focus to be on hating me- she needs to feel accountable. I have no problem being the bad cop, though.

Oh wow. Being afraid of your teen being mad at you is not a good way to parent. Having a phone and social media is an immense privilege and responsibility. Teens should know that if they prove themselves unable to handle the responsibility (as your daughter has done) that the responsibility will be removed from them for a while. Done calmly and with an explanation. It is okay if she is mad at you. You are protecting her and educating her.

Exactly and I consider it my phone. I pay for the phone and monthly bill. It’s under my name.

[Anonymous]

She loses the phone for a very long time, and then maybe it's replaced with something super embarrassing like a Bark phone or a tweeny smart watch. Look who doesn't have tiktok, now? I would come down on this like Thor's hammer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be blunt, I checked your phone and your behavior isn't ok and you are losing your phone for a week.

+1
My kids understand there is no expectation of privacy on their devices.

+1. All parents should make that clear. No expectation of privacy in the room either. I knock and ask permission to enter if they are in there. But I can search anything I want, any time I want.

This should be emphasized way more than it is. Digital monitoring is common in the workplace, and they need to get used to it. You want privacy? Write in a journal. I won't read it, I promise. But your phone is mine. And everything you're putting on it, is for my eyes and everyone else's because that's how the internet works. It's all permanent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old is she?

Sorry, just saw she is 15. My eldest is only 14, but he absolutely knows that I check his phone and will do so at any time. I think you need to open this up and have conversations with dd about the sort of person she wants to be and how the words she uses reflect who she is.

Then they just delete chats. Parents think they are so savvy and teens are 10 steps ahead of you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She loses the phone for a very long time, and then maybe it's replaced with something super embarrassing like a Bark phone or a tweeny smart watch. Look who doesn't have tiktok, now? I would come down on this like Thor's hammer.

This is awesome

[Anonymous]

I would take the phone away for a week or two for sure. Why would you not do any sort of punishment? A PP made a good point about privacy in the workplace. It’s the same thing, any of those Teams conversations aren’t really private. Good for your daughter to learn some lessons now (and your daughter is being a total jerk- sharing unflattering pictures. Come on now, she needs more than a conversation about being nice).

[Anonymous]

College admissions officers love getting emails with screenshots of some little angel acting like a demon on chat.