Boy Scouts and Homosexual Discrimmination and my son.

[Anonymous]

Can we stick to the issue of BSA and discrimination and alternative scouting like activities?

The comments about who can choose what race are offensive. They imply that if African Americans could get a change in race, they would. I am quite offended by that. It is best to just stick to the issue and not try to draw analogies that can lead you down a path to hurtful rhetoric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a number of reasons I find it problematic to compare bigotry against gays to bigotry against blacks because of the argument over whether being gay is a choice. (which I find irrelevant)

How about this as an example? Suppose we lived in an massively atheist society where Christians were a small minority. Suppose the Boy Scouts of America, the main youth organization for boys, were an atheist organization and didn't allow Christians to join (instead of the other way around -- atheists are barred). Isn't being a Christian a choice? Couldn't you choose not to be a Christian so you could join? If I were an atheist member of the BSA, I might say, "I don't have a problem with you and your religion. I just don't want you around my child because you might pollute him with your awful belief in a supernatural being. Decide not to be a Christian and you can join." Hmm-mmmm...that would be fair....NOT!

This example did not illuminate why you find it problematic to compare bigotry against gays to bigotry against blacks. Your argument is based on one's religion, which is a choice. I was raised (or "born") one faith, but chose another. I was born white, but I can't choose to convert to being black. Just as I can't chose to become a lesbian. I can admire them. I can perform lesbian sex. But in my heart, I know that I will always be straight. Just as many lesbians know they will always be gay.

OMG, thank you for giving me the biggest laugh of the day! Unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

I am surprised that so many seem to have not known about the BSA policy on gays before this thread. Perhaps it was more publicized in the gay community.

I find their policy morally objectional, but that is my own personal view. I choose not to support them, but I don't feel compelled to get them to change their policies. They are a private group, free to make their own decisions.

As an out lesbian, I would not expect to become a accepted member of the Mormon church.

[Anonymous]

It is a crying shame that the boy scouts have taken this position. It is why my husband is not a volunteer, and why my son hasn't joined cub scouts.

The boy scouts can apparently do what they want. It is a shame that what they want to do is be is so discriminatory.

17:49 - you are a riot. Please post more often!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we stick to the issue of BSA and discrimination and alternative scouting like activities?

The comments about who can choose what race are offensive. They imply that if African Americans could get a change in race, they would. I am quite offended by that. It is best to just stick to the issue and not try to draw analogies that can lead you down a path to hurtful rhetoric.

No one said anything about people being able to choose what race they are! What was suggested was abandoning racism as a metaphor for homophobia in order to get at the true weakness of the anti-gay arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we stick to the issue of BSA and discrimination and alternative scouting like activities?

The comments about who can choose what race are offensive. They imply that if African Americans could get a change in race, they would. I am quite offended by that. It is best to just stick to the issue and not try to draw analogies that can lead you down a path to hurtful rhetoric.

Ah hem. . .I think that you might be the only one that reached that conclusion from the dialogue. I did NOT read any of the comments to suggest that African Americans would choose another race if they could. Maybe consider how YOU are reading these posts perhaps?

[Anonymous]

Look...I think you need to get over the fact that gays arent allowed in the BSOA. BSOA has always been a more "Christian" based group. If you didnt know that before looking into it with your husband, then you know now.

There are TONS of clubs/groups/organizations out there that cater to different lifestyles and beliefs. Thats our right as Americans....That's one thing I love about our country.

I bet I couldnt join a Harley Davidson Bike gang if I were driving a Yamaha.

[Anonymous]

Spoken like a Harley Davidson rider.

[Anonymous]

Are Boy Scouts even still popular? I always thought it was dorky as a kid. People who are into it always seemed a little weird, especially the ones who stay with it into the preteen and teenage years. There are so many other activities for kids I wouldn't worry about missing out on anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look...I think you need to get over the fact that gays arent allowed in the BSOA. BSOA has always been a more "Christian" based group. If you didnt know that before looking into it with your husband, then you know now.

"Get over it"? She has. Not clear she was ever "under it." OP asked specifically for recommendations for other programs that she might prefer for her son. She didn't demand that everyone petition to change the BSOA. Lots of us happen to be in a similar boat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are Boy Scouts even still popular? I always thought it was dorky as a kid. People who are into it always seemed a little weird, especially the ones who stay with it into the preteen and teenage years. There are so many other activities for kids I wouldn't worry about missing out on anything.

Actually making it to Eagle Scout is excellent ammunition for getting into college and is highly regarded by admissions. I guess being in the chess club or math club might have been dorky too, but I certainly would be happy if my child did that instead of the pot smoking club.

I have not noticed that the subset of older boy scouts were "weird" people. How old are you? Your response sounds like that of my 16 year old babysitter.

Notable Eagle Scouts include:

President Gearld Ford
Astronaut James Lovell
Astronaut Ellison Onizuka
Director Steven Spielberg
Actor James Stewart
Commentator Walter Cronkite
and a list too large to name of elected/appointed political officials

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are Boy Scouts even still popular? I always thought it was dorky as a kid. People who are into it always seemed a little weird, especially the ones who stay with it into the preteen and teenage years. There are so many other activities for kids I wouldn't worry about missing out on anything.

Actually making it to Eagle Scout is excellent ammunition for getting into college and is highly regarded by admissions. I guess being in the chess club or math club might have been dorky too, but I certainly would be happy if my child did that instead of the pot smoking club.

I have not noticed that the subset of older boy scouts were "weird" people. How old are you? Your response sounds like that of my 16 year old babysitter.

Notable Eagle Scouts include:

President Gearld Ford
Astronaut James Lovell
Astronaut Ellison Onizuka
Director Steven Spielberg
Actor James Stewart
Commentator Walter Cronkite
and a list too large to name of elected/appointed political officials

While these men are accomplished, they are from how many generations ago? They're dead or close to dead. And yes, Spielberg still looks like dork. I agree if a 16 yo is still a boy scout, they seem socially unadjusted and not operating at their age level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look...I think you need to get over the fact that gays arent allowed in the BSOA. BSOA has always been a more "Christian" based group. If you didnt know that before looking into it with your husband, then you know now.

There are TONS of clubs/groups/organizations out there that cater to different lifestyles and beliefs. Thats our right as Americans....That's one thing I love about our country.

I bet I couldnt join a Harley Davidson Bike gang if I were driving a Yamaha.

FYI, the vast majority of lesbian and gay Americans are Christian.

And, being gay or lesbian is NOT a "lifestyle". Living in the suburbs is a lifestyle. Being a parent is a lifestyle. Being a young, urban single person is a lifestyle. Owning a dog is a lifestyle. Gay and lesbian people cross all lifestyles and live in 99% of the counties in the United States based on the latest census data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look...I think you need to get over the fact that gays arent allowed in the BSOA. BSOA has always been a more "Christian" based group. If you didnt know that before looking into it with your husband, then you know now.

There are TONS of clubs/groups/organizations out there that cater to different lifestyles and beliefs. Thats our right as Americans....That's one thing I love about our country.

I bet I couldnt join a Harley Davidson Bike gang if I were driving a Yamaha.

But then all you would have to do is go out and buy a Harley if you wanted to join.

It's not so simple when it comes to one's identity. For gay people, it's more like not being able to buy a Harley, even if you wanted to, in a world set up to serve, support, and affirm Harley owners 24/7.

One thing I love about our country is that we have freedom of speech and can speak out when we see injustice.

[Anonymous]

One more thing to chime in about Boy Scouts- they do not accept the Unitarian Church for the religon patch.

from wikipedia:
Boy Scout Troop 103 was sponsored by All Souls Unitarian Church in New York City. The BSA policies that excluded the UUA caused the congregation to terminate its charter and sever ties with the BSA. The volunteers who formerly led the troop later founded Navigators USA [12], which its founders describe as "...committed to providing a quality scouting experience that is inclusive and available to all children and families regardless of gender, race, religion, economic status, sexual orientation and social background." The All Souls Unitarian Church chapter is presently the only one, but according to the group's website, they will offer more chapters in the fall of 2007.