Strivers — this is what you are up against

[Anonymous]

This is how the world works. Nevertheless, this is America. Some of the strivers will improve their lot. Slots open up all the time when folks like me, descended from Mayflower passengers, manage to fail despite not a dime of educational debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it. I am really proud that my immigrant DH and I both managed to get into an Ivy from regular public schools and middle class backgrounds. And really proud that we could buy a teeny family house in an ok part of a neighborhood near a fancy neighborhood in a big city.

My DD came home from her private school one day and asked why her classmate lives in such a big house and why we don’t live on the same nice block by the water like her if her mom went to the same college as us. And I explained that the girl’s great-grandparents already lived in that house and were doctors when our family didn’t even live in this country yet and/or had started working in a factory as 13 year olds who couldn’t afford to finish middle school. And I reminded her that she has classmates whose parents are currently doing what her grandparents did for DH and I.

Everyone has a different path. Some paths are a bit…smoother.

The only thing wrong with being born with privilege or advantages is pretending like they don’t exist, or when children pretend it’s something they deserve or have earned.

This is a lovely and thoughtful post, thank you.

My parents were poor and didn't go to college, but they were strivers for me and siblings, who all have graduate degrees from state flagships. I want my kid to do well, of course, but am trying to focus on her emotional health too and as a result she may have fewer "achievements" than I did - no plans for Ivy here, and certainly not an Olympian. It's ok.

Life is about being happy. A smart person will go far, no matter what college they attend. We chose to allow our kids to have a Happy HS time, and pick the best fit for them college. It's worked out well. One wasn't T30 material and happily knew that--they knew college was needed to get a decent job as they are not Trade school interested. But they were happy to graduate college and get into the work force and not have to deal with academia anymore. They are doing well and we always knew they would once they got a degree (any degree really).
The other tried for T25 schools, but was rejected or WL at them (R at one, WL at 2). SO they are at a T40 and loving it. They are also happy their HS path was of their own choosing. They took 7 STEM AP and AP Psych. Skipped the rest of the Humanities/LA AP for their sanity and the desire to get at least 5 hours of sleep during HS, and to spend 20+ hours a week dancing as their focus. We also let them drop Spanish after year 3 (Spanish 4 was same time as Band so it wouldn't work and the AP Spanish teacher was terrible--my kid had them for Spanish 2 and no way in hell were they going to attempt AP Spanish with a teacher who could not teach). Those decisions may have prevented them getting into a T25 (no APUSH, no AP Eng, No AP FL) but my kid doesn't regret it.

The assumptions that everyone at an Ivy or T10 is a 'striver' and/or unhappy is ridiculous. My kid is the least 'strivey'. He even dropped down an Honors to regular and didn't max out APs, etc. He was very active in his sport. Very happy and social and not stressed---didn't even have a single school he wanted to go to in Sophomore year...we asked and he'd say 'I don't know'. He was living in the HS years. That said--things came easier for him then others. Very high test scores w/ little prep. Straight As, but could get the work done in a 1/4 of the time as everyone else, etc. He was accepted into several T10/20s and is at an Ivy now where he is very happy and still...not stressed, nor 'strivey'. In fact, he spends so much time outdoors--w/ his club team and doing lots of social stuff. We didn't do any private college counseling or essay help or 'design' his activities. He just did what he liked to do.

I think it's easy to just say 'oh well anyone at those schools is a striver'. Not. The kids he is friends with are a lot like him---naturally curious, social, very smart and get things done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The other tried for T25 schools, but was rejected or WL at them (R at one, WL at 2). SO they are at a T40 and loving it.

Uhhh, what's the practical difference between a T25 and T40?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL a rich White kid with a niche sport.
Big deal
Asians have already cracked that code long time ago

https://gocrimson.com/sports/womens-fencing/roster
https://gocrimson.com/sports/womens-golf/roster

Touche!

Fore!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading about Olympian Kristen Faulkner, who went to Philips Exeter, than Harvard for CS major and competing in crew etc. then of course the Olympics, and all that entails.

I was curious about how she achieved so much, and if you read up on her family history, they ALL went to Philips and Harvard, going back to 1842. Her N-grandfather started a mill, and his sons went to Harvard and ran banks, and real estate development. It goes on for generation to generation.

https://keenenh.gov/sites/default/files/bioAH.pdf

I have hopes for my kids to do well in life, but we are barely middle class and my grandfather couldn’t read, and this is their competition. Oh and AI.

What is N-grandfather?

Agree. This thread should be reported for racism.

Because algebra is racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other tried for T25 schools, but was rejected or WL at them (R at one, WL at 2). SO they are at a T40 and loving it.

Uhhh, what's the practical difference between a T25 and T40?

I am no Math genius...but I think 15 ranking points.

This is the problem with DCUM...it's never my kid is loving life at school ranked #1000...it's still a top school, just a fraction of a degree "less".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other tried for T25 schools, but was rejected or WL at them (R at one, WL at 2). SO they are at a T40 and loving it.

Uhhh, what's the practical difference between a T25 and T40?

T15, I think?

Maybe you have to factor the N somehow too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other tried for T25 schools, but was rejected or WL at them (R at one, WL at 2). SO they are at a T40 and loving it.

Uhhh, what's the practical difference between a T25 and T40?

I am no Math genius...but I think 15 ranking points.

This is the problem with DCUM...it's never my kid is loving life at school ranked #1000...it's still a top school, just a fraction of a degree "less".

My kid is having fun! But that doesn't help me at canasta night at the clubhouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading about Olympian Kristen Faulkner, who went to Philips Exeter, than Harvard for CS major and competing in crew etc. then of course the Olympics, and all that entails.

I was curious about how she achieved so much, and if you read up on her family history, they ALL went to Philips and Harvard, going back to 1842. Her N-grandfather started a mill, and his sons went to Harvard and ran banks, and real estate development. It goes on for generation to generation.

https://keenenh.gov/sites/default/files/bioAH.pdf

I have hopes for my kids to do well in life, but we are barely middle class and my grandfather couldn’t read, and this is their competition. Oh and AI.

Wrong, You’re not in that game OP. You’re not even on the playing field. What you need to create is the first generation of the 1842 great grandfather, in your own lineage. Middle class beliefs = middle class actions and behaviors. The first in your family to believe and achieve differently is the game changer for your family.

I think this is a really smart comment. On one side of my family are people happy and content in a middle class world that they know and love -- no one wants more in part because it is all they know, in part because they feel comfortable, in part because they have doubts about how good they actually are. On the other side going back generations from the first to come to the US, the mindset has been to build better, advance, improve. So poor immigrant to lower middle class to middle class to upper middle class to rich. That took generations and it is 150 plus years in the making. The contrast could not be more stark.

[Anonymous]

The "striver" poster is disturbed. Clearly, they are making up for the fact that they or a loved one didn't do well in the college sweepstakes and want to inflict their bitterness on everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grandparents didn’t graduate high school. Dad was a cop. I went to a mediocre K-12, graduated magna cum laude from an Ivy, and am now a c-suite exec. Lack of generational wealth has actually been a tremendous motivator for me because there’s nothing to fall back on.

I know cops get a bad rap these days but I think there is something honorable about that profession. It's a form of public service, and not an easy one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading about Olympian Kristen Faulkner, who went to Philips Exeter, than Harvard for CS major and competing in crew etc. then of course the Olympics, and all that entails.

I was curious about how she achieved so much, and if you read up on her family history, they ALL went to Philips and Harvard, going back to 1842. Her N-grandfather started a mill, and his sons went to Harvard and ran banks, and real estate development. It goes on for generation to generation.

https://keenenh.gov/sites/default/files/bioAH.pdf

I have hopes for my kids to do well in life, but we are barely middle class and my grandfather couldn’t read, and this is their competition. Oh and AI.

What is N-grandfather?

Agree. This thread should be reported for racism.

Because algebra is racist?

The internet is racist, duh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:plenty of non legacy kids make it too along with 20% pell grant kids

+1. This is also what "you are up against." Doors open at both ends of the spectrum. Money is not a hurdle for the rich and for those whom the Ivies view as "poor." It's those in the middle for whom the schools can be cost-prohibitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP’s example is just so strange.

Her family isn’t super wealthy in the scheme of things…not even close to Forbes 400.

Surpassed 100x by thousands of ambitious strivers that made their money within the last 30 years.

I honestly don’t get the point at all.

I guess he/she was trying to point out some silly class of wealth that many don't care about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it. I am really proud that my immigrant DH and I both managed to get into an Ivy from regular public schools and middle class backgrounds. And really proud that we could buy a teeny family house in an ok part of a neighborhood near a fancy neighborhood in a big city.

My DD came home from her private school one day and asked why her classmate lives in such a big house and why we don’t live on the same nice block by the water like her if her mom went to the same college as us. And I explained that the girl’s great-grandparents already lived in that house and were doctors when our family didn’t even live in this country yet and/or had started working in a factory as 13 year olds who couldn’t afford to finish middle school. And I reminded her that she has classmates whose parents are currently doing what her grandparents did for DH and I.

Everyone has a different path. Some paths are a bit…smoother.

The only thing wrong with being born with privilege or advantages is pretending like they don’t exist, or when children pretend it’s something they deserve or have earned.

This is a lovely and thoughtful post, thank you.

My parents were poor and didn't go to college, but they were strivers for me and siblings, who all have graduate degrees from state flagships. I want my kid to do well, of course, but am trying to focus on her emotional health too and as a result she may have fewer "achievements" than I did - no plans for Ivy here, and certainly not an Olympian. It's ok.

Life is about being happy. A smart person will go far, no matter what college they attend. We chose to allow our kids to have a Happy HS time, and pick the best fit for them college. It's worked out well. One wasn't T30 material and happily knew that--they knew college was needed to get a decent job as they are not Trade school interested. But they were happy to graduate college and get into the work force and not have to deal with academia anymore. They are doing well and we always knew they would once they got a degree (any degree really).
The other tried for T25 schools, but was rejected or WL at them (R at one, WL at 2). SO they are at a T40 and loving it. They are also happy their HS path was of their own choosing. They took 7 STEM AP and AP Psych. Skipped the rest of the Humanities/LA AP for their sanity and the desire to get at least 5 hours of sleep during HS, and to spend 20+ hours a week dancing as their focus. We also let them drop Spanish after year 3 (Spanish 4 was same time as Band so it wouldn't work and the AP Spanish teacher was terrible--my kid had them for Spanish 2 and no way in hell were they going to attempt AP Spanish with a teacher who could not teach). Those decisions may have prevented them getting into a T25 (no APUSH, no AP Eng, No AP FL) but my kid doesn't regret it.

The assumptions that everyone at an Ivy or T10 is a 'striver' and/or unhappy is ridiculous. My kid is the least 'strivey'. He even dropped down an Honors to regular and didn't max out APs, etc. He was very active in his sport. Very happy and social and not stressed---didn't even have a single school he wanted to go to in Sophomore year...we asked and he'd say 'I don't know'. He was living in the HS years. That said--things came easier for him then others. Very high test scores w/ little prep. Straight As, but could get the work done in a 1/4 of the time as everyone else, etc. He was accepted into several T10/20s and is at an Ivy now where he is very happy and still...not stressed, nor 'strivey'. In fact, he spends so much time outdoors--w/ his club team and doing lots of social stuff. We didn't do any private college counseling or essay help or 'design' his activities. He just did what he liked to do.

I think it's easy to just say 'oh well anyone at those schools is a striver'. Not. The kids he is friends with are a lot like him---naturally curious, social, very smart and get things done.

Thank you for this. Your DS sounds like our DD. Normal, low-stress kid who happens to be incredibly skilled at learning. Between her high processing speed, crazy executive function skills, and near photographic memory, she learns high-level material easily - either in class or by teaching herself. It shows in her class schedule (top APs, GPA, and test scores.) She does the work, but as you said, probably in 1/3 to 1/4 of the time it takes others.

This frees up A LOT of time, which she chooses to use to play 3 varsity sports plus one on a year-round travel team. She also does a handful of pretty generic ECs because they’re fun and her friends do them with her. But mostly, when she’s doing work or playing sports, she’s hanging out with her friends (now that she can drive, more so than ever. )

According to DCUM, the T25 is out of reach for her because she has “wasted” so much of her time on sports and not augmented her near-perfect academics with a resume full of awards and unusual leadership roles.

So be it. The kid is not a striver. But it’s nice to know that if she does get into a T25 school, there will be others like her (like your DS). Sometimes we wonder, given everything we’ve read lately on this board and elsewhere. 🤷‍♀️

More likely, she will end up at a lower-ranked school that suits her personality and interests … and that is full of smart kids who are eager to enjoy a well-rounded life while taking interesting classes and getting a great college education.

PS - We’d love recommendations for schools that fit this description. We’re thinking flagship state schools. Any privates that might be good targets? Thx.