Impact on schools with expanding housing options in single family zones

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More overcrowding.

I live in Silver Spring. We used to live in a solidly middle-class neighborhood with single family housing.

Many (not the majority yet) of the single family houses in our neighborhood have been purchased by landlords, who then rent them out to multiple families, or turn them into boarding houses.

So, in a house where we may have had 2-3 kids attending the local ES, we now have 5-6. It's pretty much doubled the number of kids. The class sizes at our middle school just continue to increase.

Teachers are frustrated and our kids are suffering.

Houses should come with school documents/vouchers/attendance ability—I don’t know what to call it. Base it on county housing guidelines. Each bedroom can theoretically hold 2 kids. So a 4 bedroom house would get 6 school coupons. When the house is rented out, the landlord has those coupons to give out. Or if the housing was built thinking that only 3 kids would live in a 4 bed house, then allocate 3 school coupons.

So potentially, some kids just don't get to go to school?

You're an idiot.

It’s idiotic to let developers build more and more housing when we don’t have enough schools to support large numbers of additional children.

So build more schools. This isn't rocket science. What do you think the US did in the 60s?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More overcrowding.

I live in Silver Spring. We used to live in a solidly middle-class neighborhood with single family housing.

Many (not the majority yet) of the single family houses in our neighborhood have been purchased by landlords, who then rent them out to multiple families, or turn them into boarding houses.

So, in a house where we may have had 2-3 kids attending the local ES, we now have 5-6. It's pretty much doubled the number of kids. The class sizes at our middle school just continue to increase.

Teachers are frustrated and our kids are suffering.

Houses should come with school documents/vouchers/attendance ability—I don’t know what to call it. Base it on county housing guidelines. Each bedroom can theoretically hold 2 kids. So a 4 bedroom house would get 6 school coupons. When the house is rented out, the landlord has those coupons to give out. Or if the housing was built thinking that only 3 kids would live in a 4 bed house, then allocate 3 school coupons.

That's a terrible idea. Just build more schools.

Where? The county is allowing developers to build high density housing on every spot of available land.

And, with what money will we build more schools? The county is basically letting developers off the hook. I guess taxpayers can cough up even more money to build more schools, while landlords and developers laugh all the way to the bank.

MCPS has a large plot of land by me that's sitting empty. And there are closed schools all over the county that could be renovated or rebuilt.

[Anonymous]

Anybody interested in actual data on this?

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://montgomeryplanningboard.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/FY25-Annual-School-Test-School-Utilization-Report_6-20-24_Final.pdf

"At the elementary school level, countywide enrollment already peaked in 2017, and saw a sudden decline during and after the pandemic. While enrollment is slowly starting to pick up again, projections indicate that it will not be returning to the pre-pandemic peak level in the foreseeable future. At the end of the six-year CIP cycle, there is projected to be more than 6,600 surplus seats available across all elementary schools in the county."

"At the middle school level, the total capacity across all schools has been sufficient for the countywide enrollment over the past 15 years. Countywide projections indicate that the enrollment, which had been declining since the pandemic, will return to its pre-pandemic peak level at the end of the six-year CIP cycle, but there will be more than 2,400 surplus seats available collectively nonetheless (see Figure 3). "

"The county experienced strong enrollment growth at the high school level over the past decade, but the latest projections indicate that that growth will start tapering off in the next few years. Once the capital projects at Crown, Northwood, and Woodward high schools are complete in 2027, there is projected to be a surplus of over 2,800 seats countywide, despite the delay of the proposed projects at Damascus, Magruder, and Wootton High Schools (see Figure 1). "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did any one attend in Silver Spring this week?

I did. What would you like to know?

[Anonymous]

We need a couple thousand triplexes built on single-family home properties in Bethesda. That's equity, which is what the wealthy Dems are fighting for.

Look at how the Bethesda folks on this thread are already protesting...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did any one attend in Silver Spring this week?

I did. What would you like to know?

Is this a done deal? Do we have any tother input?

[Anonymous]

Sorry any real input to change anything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More overcrowding.

I live in Silver Spring. We used to live in a solidly middle-class neighborhood with single family housing.

Many (not the majority yet) of the single family houses in our neighborhood have been purchased by landlords, who then rent them out to multiple families, or turn them into boarding houses.

So, in a house where we may have had 2-3 kids attending the local ES, we now have 5-6. It's pretty much doubled the number of kids. The class sizes at our middle school just continue to increase.

Teachers are frustrated and our kids are suffering.

Houses should come with school documents/vouchers/attendance ability—I don’t know what to call it. Base it on county housing guidelines. Each bedroom can theoretically hold 2 kids. So a 4 bedroom house would get 6 school coupons. When the house is rented out, the landlord has those coupons to give out. Or if the housing was built thinking that only 3 kids would live in a 4 bed house, then allocate 3 school coupons.

So potentially, some kids just don't get to go to school?

You're an idiot.

It’s idiotic to let developers build more and more housing when we don’t have enough schools to support large numbers of additional children.

So build more schools. This isn't rocket science. What do you think the US did in the 60s?

Let's see you out there with your shovel. When does the building start?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry any real input to change anything?

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/COUNCIL/resources/AttainableHousingStrategies.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anybody interested in actual data on this?

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://montgomeryplanningboard.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/FY25-Annual-School-Test-School-Utilization-Report_6-20-24_Final.pdf

"At the elementary school level, countywide enrollment already peaked in 2017, and saw a sudden decline during and after the pandemic. While enrollment is slowly starting to pick up again, projections indicate that it will not be returning to the pre-pandemic peak level in the foreseeable future. At the end of the six-year CIP cycle, there is projected to be more than 6,600 surplus seats available across all elementary schools in the county."

"At the middle school level, the total capacity across all schools has been sufficient for the countywide enrollment over the past 15 years. Countywide projections indicate that the enrollment, which had been declining since the pandemic, will return to its pre-pandemic peak level at the end of the six-year CIP cycle, but there will be more than 2,400 surplus seats available collectively nonetheless (see Figure 3). "

"The county experienced strong enrollment growth at the high school level over the past decade, but the latest projections indicate that that growth will start tapering off in the next few years. Once the capital projects at Crown, Northwood, and Woodward high schools are complete in 2027, there is projected to be a surplus of over 2,800 seats countywide, despite the delay of the proposed projects at Damascus, Magruder, and Wootton High Schools (see Figure 1). "

Surplus in those schools west of I-270? Because most all the other ones elsewhere in county are over capacity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More overcrowding.

I live in Silver Spring. We used to live in a solidly middle-class neighborhood with single family housing.

Many (not the majority yet) of the single family houses in our neighborhood have been purchased by landlords, who then rent them out to multiple families, or turn them into boarding houses.

So, in a house where we may have had 2-3 kids attending the local ES, we now have 5-6. It's pretty much doubled the number of kids. The class sizes at our middle school just continue to increase.

Teachers are frustrated and our kids are suffering.

Houses should come with school documents/vouchers/attendance ability—I don’t know what to call it. Base it on county housing guidelines. Each bedroom can theoretically hold 2 kids. So a 4 bedroom house would get 6 school coupons. When the house is rented out, the landlord has those coupons to give out. Or if the housing was built thinking that only 3 kids would live in a 4 bed house, then allocate 3 school coupons.

That's a terrible idea. Just build more schools.

Where? The county is allowing developers to build high density housing on every spot of available land.

And, with what money will we build more schools? The county is basically letting developers off the hook. I guess taxpayers can cough up even more money to build more schools, while landlords and developers laugh all the way to the bank.

Pretty much. For fun, look up what trade groups made campaign donations to the county reps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anybody interested in actual data on this?

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://montgomeryplanningboard.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/FY25-Annual-School-Test-School-Utilization-Report_6-20-24_Final.pdf

"At the elementary school level, countywide enrollment already peaked in 2017, and saw a sudden decline during and after the pandemic. While enrollment is slowly starting to pick up again, projections indicate that it will not be returning to the pre-pandemic peak level in the foreseeable future. At the end of the six-year CIP cycle, there is projected to be more than 6,600 surplus seats available across all elementary schools in the county."

"At the middle school level, the total capacity across all schools has been sufficient for the countywide enrollment over the past 15 years. Countywide projections indicate that the enrollment, which had been declining since the pandemic, will return to its pre-pandemic peak level at the end of the six-year CIP cycle, but there will be more than 2,400 surplus seats available collectively nonetheless (see Figure 3). "

"The county experienced strong enrollment growth at the high school level over the past decade, but the latest projections indicate that that growth will start tapering off in the next few years. Once the capital projects at Crown, Northwood, and Woodward high schools are complete in 2027, there is projected to be a surplus of over 2,800 seats countywide, despite the delay of the proposed projects at Damascus, Magruder, and Wootton High Schools (see Figure 1). "

That's across the system. There is and will still be plenty of overcrowding at individual schools, especially in the close-in areas they are targeting. Meanwhile:

Those same areas don't have great candidate sites for additional facilities, especially where it wouldn't strip the area of other infrastructure/public services, like parks (also over-subscribed for things like sports and often under-maintained).

Many schools in those areas deal with long-term portables.

The county doesn't properly fund the CIP request, pretty much ever, so things just get pushed out / get worse.

MCPS doesn't even bother to put a request/plan in front of the County Council that would fully address the issue / ensure adequacy -- only the most desperate situations (perhaps with a sprinkling of favored projects) end up included.

I'd be interested in actual data, but Planning has no interest in those inconvenient truths as they try to gloss over the issues in their pursuit of densifying detached SFH neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry any real input to change anything?

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/COUNCIL/resources/AttainableHousingStrategies.html

Uhh yeah I'm pretty sure the poster was asking if they were as dismissive about resident concerns in person as they are in their report.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anybody interested in actual data on this?

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://montgomeryplanningboard.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/FY25-Annual-School-Test-School-Utilization-Report_6-20-24_Final.pdf

"At the elementary school level, countywide enrollment already peaked in 2017, and saw a sudden decline during and after the pandemic. While enrollment is slowly starting to pick up again, projections indicate that it will not be returning to the pre-pandemic peak level in the foreseeable future. At the end of the six-year CIP cycle, there is projected to be more than 6,600 surplus seats available across all elementary schools in the county."

"At the middle school level, the total capacity across all schools has been sufficient for the countywide enrollment over the past 15 years. Countywide projections indicate that the enrollment, which had been declining since the pandemic, will return to its pre-pandemic peak level at the end of the six-year CIP cycle, but there will be more than 2,400 surplus seats available collectively nonetheless (see Figure 3). "

"The county experienced strong enrollment growth at the high school level over the past decade, but the latest projections indicate that that growth will start tapering off in the next few years. Once the capital projects at Crown, Northwood, and Woodward high schools are complete in 2027, there is projected to be a surplus of over 2,800 seats countywide, despite the delay of the proposed projects at Damascus, Magruder, and Wootton High Schools (see Figure 1). "

That's across the system. There is and will still be plenty of overcrowding at individual schools, especially in the close-in areas they are targeting. Meanwhile:

Those same areas don't have great candidate sites for additional facilities, especially where it wouldn't strip the area of other infrastructure/public services, like parks (also over-subscribed for things like sports and often under-maintained).

Many schools in those areas deal with long-term portables.

The county doesn't properly fund the CIP request, pretty much ever, so things just get pushed out / get worse.

MCPS doesn't even bother to put a request/plan in front of the County Council that would fully address the issue / ensure adequacy -- only the most desperate situations (perhaps with a sprinkling of favored projects) end up included.

I'd be interested in actual data, but Planning has no interest in those inconvenient truths as they try to gloss over the issues in their pursuit of densifying detached SFH neighborhoods.

Those areas are choosing to be overcrowded by fighting attempts to redraw boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anybody interested in actual data on this?

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://montgomeryplanningboard.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/FY25-Annual-School-Test-School-Utilization-Report_6-20-24_Final.pdf

"At the elementary school level, countywide enrollment already peaked in 2017, and saw a sudden decline during and after the pandemic. While enrollment is slowly starting to pick up again, projections indicate that it will not be returning to the pre-pandemic peak level in the foreseeable future. At the end of the six-year CIP cycle, there is projected to be more than 6,600 surplus seats available across all elementary schools in the county."

"At the middle school level, the total capacity across all schools has been sufficient for the countywide enrollment over the past 15 years. Countywide projections indicate that the enrollment, which had been declining since the pandemic, will return to its pre-pandemic peak level at the end of the six-year CIP cycle, but there will be more than 2,400 surplus seats available collectively nonetheless (see Figure 3). "

"The county experienced strong enrollment growth at the high school level over the past decade, but the latest projections indicate that that growth will start tapering off in the next few years. Once the capital projects at Crown, Northwood, and Woodward high schools are complete in 2027, there is projected to be a surplus of over 2,800 seats countywide, despite the delay of the proposed projects at Damascus, Magruder, and Wootton High Schools (see Figure 1). "

Surplus in those schools west of I-270? Because most all the other ones elsewhere in county are over capacity.

It may feel that way, but it's not true.