Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

This isn’t consistent with where local private schools are sending their students.

I guess if everyone at Sidwell is nerdy and awkward (which I don’t think is the case)…like 50% of the class is going to a top 20.

It’s not much different (in fact higher) from NYC and other large city privates

I guess if one kid at Sidwell goes to SMU (yep, just 1) that is infinitely higher than the typical 0.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

Add TCU

[Anonymous]

This is what happens when you migrate from a lur mediocre rich privileged white guy system toward a meritocratic equity system.

When being the "top" takes work not birth, you end up with the hard workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.

Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin

Yup. My normalish smart kid applied to 6 of those (plus 5 others including Wake and BC) and attended one on your list (non Ivy).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

You do realize that for many—literally tens of thousands of kids—they feel at home and love the nerdy skew of the ivy/ivy plus schools? And for them they do find them socially appealing? You make it sound as though no one really wants to go there and if they do they couldn’t possibly enjoy the place and be social? Social does not mean drinking and nothing else. Some students want a place they can have intellectual conversations and also be young and silly and have fun. If you had a kid where the schools were a fit, you would know it right away on tours. Their whole aura changes. They get there and love it despite all the hard work studying. You are correct the schools have changed—but they are a great fit for a subset of students. Some people are not chasing $ they are chasing fit. Already being top 1% or being a low income kid does not matter: they are chasing the same fit.

sorry effed up post, dont do this much -here it is correctly

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

Sure there is a subset who only ivy-gun because of their parents, but there are brilliant kids who visit these places and find their people, who are from regular towns and cities not some prep-school nyc pipeline. As a parent of kids at these nerdy ivies dcum alternately reveres and trashes, they ARE social, and the nyc-pipeline/trust fund babies kids are a small minority. And some of them are wonderful nerds too.
They dress up for costume or frat/social group parties, they sometimes drink or some portions drink, they support those who do not. They support each other's drive to study long hours and gun for A's, they cry with each other and go for ice cream when they "fail" a midterm or break up with their SO. Maybe they are not social compared to UGA, and for certain they spend a lot of time on intellectual pursuits in and outside the classroom, but that does not make them antisocial nerds who can barely speak publicly or lead a group. The ivy/+ schools are a dream come true for these kids--they often feel at home and able to be themselves in a way they were not able to in a typical high school.
As to Cornell v Vandy, sure they are not that different as far as nerd% and who would pick Cornell?! kidding of course. Many students however pick Cornell or another ivy (or Swarthmore or Amherst) over their state school, often rightfully so as the environment is much better suited to their needs.

[Anonymous]

Lol so many people triggered by the implication that the top schools might not be the absolute greatest in every aspect, or that some people may have had a better impression of those schools in the past than now. Calm down, these schools aren’t your identity or personality, nor do you owe them anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.

Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin

kid at Brown and kid at Penn: Penn is much more social than Brown. It is called the social ivy for a reason. Both have high high percent nerds as described on this thread, and are not at all "social" compared to a large state party school. They have friends at UChicago and Stanford who are much less social than they are but also very nerdy.
All ivy/plus schools have a huge nerd quotient with students who study hard: it is normal to talk about classes and studying and goals, it is normal to go to the library on Friday night for many hours so you can take time off Saturday night to go out(or vice versa). Tulane, SMU, and many of the schools on this list do not have a culture of studying, so if yours wants to focus on going to class and being challenged/getting to know professors and getting involved in research, they will not be with their people. Going to class and caring about school is not cool at all at least 5 schools on your list. Our relative left Tulane for UNC for that reason, her roommate left and went to Michigan, and a neighbor left Wisconsin for Davidson for similar reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lol so many people triggered by the implication that the top schools might not be the absolute greatest in every aspect, or that some people may have had a better impression of those schools in the past than now. Calm down, these schools aren’t your identity or personality, nor do you owe them anything.

having drunken parties every weekend is not everyone's idea of greatness. this thread actually got me interested in top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when you migrate from a lur mediocre rich privileged white guy system toward a meritocratic equity system.

When being the "top" takes work not birth, you end up with the hard workers.

YES. Smart is the new Rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

Duke and Vandy are top 20 and have the nerdy/awkward kids too…you are trying to make the southern school argument (which is made repeatedly) which perhaps applies to places like UGA.

Also, you threw in UCLA which also doesn’t fit with your point.

Have you seen the incoming kids at Duke this month?
Beyond nerdy. Like awful

"seen"? that is a bit judgy, frankly. And potentially racist if you like the other poster mean asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol so many people triggered by the implication that the top schools might not be the absolute greatest in every aspect, or that some people may have had a better impression of those schools in the past than now. Calm down, these schools aren’t your identity or personality, nor do you owe them anything.

having drunken parties every weekend is not everyone's idea of greatness. this thread actually got me interested in top schools.

That’s not what we are talking about but you are exactly the type of person I’m talking about.

[Anonymous]

the telltale sign of parent striver influencing kid is when they apply to most T10s - it’s like really? they all spoke to you? Dartmouth and Columbia were both perfect fits? That is parents hammering home importance of ivy as opposed to fit from an early age - and yeah it may seem as if it’s the kids decision, but it’s after many years of brainwashing

[Anonymous]

"The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs "

-I graduated from Ucla in the early 90's. Had not been back to campus in over a decade. Took our kids for a visit & basketball game. I was shocked at the lack of school spirit & how much more nerdy & socially awkward the general student-body seemed vs in my day where I thought it was already trending nerdy. We also visited Usc. More nerdy & awkward students there too compared to what I remembered, but much to my chagrin, far fewer then Ucla & my kids liked the Usc vibe more then Ucla.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol so many people triggered by the implication that the top schools might not be the absolute greatest in every aspect, or that some people may have had a better impression of those schools in the past than now. Calm down, these schools aren’t your identity or personality, nor do you owe them anything.

having drunken parties every weekend is not everyone's idea of greatness. this thread actually got me interested in top schools.

That’s not what we are talking about but you are exactly the type of person I’m talking about.

no worries, you can take your 90th percentile to a cooler place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol so many people triggered by the implication that the top schools might not be the absolute greatest in every aspect, or that some people may have had a better impression of those schools in the past than now. Calm down, these schools aren’t your identity or personality, nor do you owe them anything.

having drunken parties every weekend is not everyone's idea of greatness. this thread actually got me interested in top schools.

That’s not what we are talking about but you are exactly the type of person I’m talking about.

Me too. I went to college to contemplate the best that civilization has to offer and have fun, thoughtprovoking conversations, not to be dirty dancing with randoms and vomiting on the regular.