Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

Yes, you’ll make more social connections with the schools that are a step down from top 20. Most kids would not be happy at the top tier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you think it’s football/sports related? I listen to a podcast (2 females) and their level of interest in sports baffles me. The parents are alumni of a Big State U and want the same for their kids. I don’t hear the same enthusiasm for UMD.

Definitely. You get kids in the top 5 percent of their class going to Ole Miss and Alabama for the football scene.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

Duke and Vandy are top 20 and have the nerdy/awkward kids too…you are trying to make the southern school argument (which is made repeatedly) which perhaps applies to places like UGA.

Also, you threw in UCLA which also doesn’t fit with your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

Duke is not laid back social partiers who are somewhat smart anymore. It is not the 80s and 90s. I went there c/o 91. Duke now is nerds and more nerds, maybe more social than some ivies but not by much. Most of my classmates would not get in now. Most of their kids do not: it is the nerdy ones, kids of nerds like me, who do. 85-90% of legacies are denied. We have one there and her brother is a senior at at a top ivy, and we have relatives at another ivy. The ivies and ivy+ are all of that same mold--they have 75% of students who are 99th percentile testers AND were also at or near the top of their high school. They are highly driven students with interviews/cuts to get into all the top clubs, loads of premeds and prelaw or finance bro types chasing wall street, with some niche-subject phD strivers thrown in. They all have research or internships during the semester, and are all in on club leadership. They drink far less at Duke than back in the 90s, yet the majority still does some drinking, but on average not every weekend once the semester ramps up. In that sense it is almost exactly the same as the ivy. Greek is not on campus, has not been for years, and less than half the student body participates in rush. The big difference is more sports-obsession with Duke Basketball--the nerd-centric students have even turned that into testing to tent which they study for weeks, for fun. Ivies do not have sports obsession.
The students from kids' prep school who went to UCLA/USC and SMU were a different mold and not nerdy, but also not 99th%ile top of the class/smartest kids, more like average (or below for SMU--kids in the bottom math levels and don't get into the stem APs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

Duke and Vandy are top 20 and have the nerdy/awkward kids too…you are trying to make the southern school argument (which is made repeatedly) which perhaps applies to places like UGA.

Also, you threw in UCLA which also doesn’t fit with your point.

+1
vandy and especially duke are all nerdy. Not that its a bad thing—but there is an academic intensity there that is there at all top 10s and ivies and more, like rice and vandy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

Where are those kids now? If you don’t want a large flagship, what are your options?
Other than: Vanderbilt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

You do realize that for many—literally tens of thousands of kids—they feel at home and love the nerdy skew of the ivy/ivy plus schools? And for them they do find them socially appealing? You make it sound as though no one really wants to go there and if they do they couldn’t possibly enjoy the place and be social? Social does not mean drinking and nothing else. Some students want a place they can have intellectual conversations and also be young and silly and have fun. If you had a kid where the schools were a fit, you would know it right away on tours. Their whole aura changes. They get there and love it despite all the hard work studying. You are correct the schools have changed—but they are a great fit for a subset of students. Some people are not chasing $ they are chasing fit. Already being top 1% or being a low income kid does not matter: they are chasing the same fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

Duke is not laid back social partiers who are somewhat smart anymore. It is not the 80s and 90s. I went there c/o 91. Duke now is nerds and more nerds, maybe more social than some ivies but not by much. Most of my classmates would not get in now. Most of their kids do not: it is the nerdy ones, kids of nerds like me, who do. 85-90% of legacies are denied. We have one there and her brother is a senior at at a top ivy, and we have relatives at another ivy. The ivies and ivy+ are all of that same mold--they have 75% of students who are 99th percentile testers AND were also at or near the top of their high school. They are highly driven students with interviews/cuts to get into all the top clubs, loads of premeds and prelaw or finance bro types chasing wall street, with some niche-subject phD strivers thrown in. They all have research or internships during the semester, and are all in on club leadership. They drink far less at Duke than back in the 90s, yet the majority still does some drinking, but on average not every weekend once the semester ramps up. In that sense it is almost exactly the same as the ivy. Greek is not on campus, has not been for years, and less than half the student body participates in rush. The big difference is more sports-obsession with Duke Basketball--the nerd-centric students have even turned that into testing to tent which they study for weeks, for fun. Ivies do not have sports obsession.
The students from kids' prep school who went to UCLA/USC and SMU were a different mold and not nerdy, but also not 99th%ile top of the class/smartest kids, more like average (or below for SMU--kids in the bottom math levels and don't get into the stem APs).

ur right, Duke probably not the best example. Those kids are mostly nerds just like ivy, and (if possible) actually more pretentious

[Anonymous]

I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

You do realize that for many—literally tens of thousands of kids—they feel at home and love the nerdy skew of the ivy/ivy plus schools? And for them they do find them socially appealing? You make it sound as though no one really wants to go there and if they do they couldn’t possibly enjoy the place and be social? Social does not mean drinking and nothing else. Some students want a place they can have intellectual conversations and also be young and silly and have fun. If you had a kid where the schools were a fit, you would know it right away on tours. Their whole aura changes. They get there and love it despite all the hard work studying. You are correct the schools have changed—but they are a great fit for a subset of students. Some people are not chasing $ they are chasing fit. Already being top 1% or being a low income kid does not matter: they are chasing the same fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

You do realize that for many—literally tens of thousands of kids—they feel at home and love the nerdy skew of the ivy/ivy plus schools? And for them they do find them socially appealing? You make it sound as though no one really wants to go there and if they do they couldn’t possibly enjoy the place and be social? Social does not mean drinking and nothing else. Some students want a place they can have intellectual conversations and also be young and silly and have fun. If you had a kid where the schools were a fit, you would know it right away on tours. Their whole aura changes. They get there and love it despite all the hard work studying. You are correct the schools have changed—but they are a great fit for a subset of students. Some people are not chasing $ they are chasing fit. Already being top 1% or being a low income kid does not matter: they are chasing the same fit.

sorry effed up post, dont do this much -here it is correctly

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.

They still have a massive percentage of top 1% and top 0.1% students compared to all other colleges.

Just curious who falls into the category of “want to be very successful” but isn’t a striver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

+1
and they'll take their golf and their country clubs and their networks with them and all the strivers who pushed their kids to ivy as the only path to success will be left out. Again. ironic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

You do realize that for many—literally tens of thousands of kids—they feel at home and love the nerdy skew of the ivy/ivy plus schools? And for them they do find them socially appealing? You make it sound as though no one really wants to go there and if they do they couldn’t possibly enjoy the place and be social? Social does not mean drinking and nothing else. Some students want a place they can have intellectual conversations and also be young and silly and have fun. If you had a kid where the schools were a fit, you would know it right away on tours. Their whole aura changes. They get there and love it despite all the hard work studying. You are correct the schools have changed—but they are a great fit for a subset of students. Some people are not chasing $ they are chasing fit. Already being top 1% or being a low income kid does not matter: they are chasing the same fit.

sorry effed up post, dont do this much -here it is correctly

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

Your description of kindergarten interviews fits just about everyone enrolling their kids in private NYC schools.

You keep using the term “striver”, but I assure you the billionaire family descended from the original Dutch or the hedge fund billionaire that made their money yesterday or just the law firm partner, are all doing the private school interviews at 4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

You do realize that for many—literally tens of thousands of kids—they feel at home and love the nerdy skew of the ivy/ivy plus schools? And for them they do find them socially appealing? You make it sound as though no one really wants to go there and if they do they couldn’t possibly enjoy the place and be social? Social does not mean drinking and nothing else. Some students want a place they can have intellectual conversations and also be young and silly and have fun. If you had a kid where the schools were a fit, you would know it right away on tours. Their whole aura changes. They get there and love it despite all the hard work studying. You are correct the schools have changed—but they are a great fit for a subset of students. Some people are not chasing $ they are chasing fit. Already being top 1% or being a low income kid does not matter: they are chasing the same fit.

sorry effed up post, dont do this much -here it is correctly

my point is the majority of striving kids are ivy obsessed because their parents are - probably at least 75% of ivy applicants are born of parent obsession. Whether that starts at 4 with kindergarten interviews in NYC, or in 3rd grade with tiger mom jamming instrument lessons, the bulk of kids opinions are a direct correlation to and result of mom and dads subtle or direct influence. Cmon what kid would legit want to go to Cornell over Vandy - it’s all parent influence over the years and an unconscious desire to pls mummy and daddy

Your description of kindergarten interviews fits just about everyone enrolling their kids in private NYC schools.

You keep using the term “striver”, but I assure you the billionaire family descended from the original Dutch or the hedge fund billionaire that made their money yesterday or just the law firm partner, are all doing the private school interviews at 4.

meh - my DD is friends with a hedge fund billionaire’s kid at a non ivy T20 - and having a blast. It’s the wannabees and try-hards who are the problem here - and that comes from mummy and daddy