Anyone in a wealthy area that isn’t competitive with colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Highland Park

Chicago?

A lot of those kids aren't that academically competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

Duke is not laid back social partiers who are somewhat smart anymore. It is not the 80s and 90s. I went there c/o 91. Duke now is nerds and more nerds, maybe more social than some ivies but not by much. Most of my classmates would not get in now. Most of their kids do not: it is the nerdy ones, kids of nerds like me, who do. 85-90% of legacies are denied. We have one there and her brother is a senior at at a top ivy, and we have relatives at another ivy. The ivies and ivy+ are all of that same mold--they have 75% of students who are 99th percentile testers AND were also at or near the top of their high school. They are highly driven students with interviews/cuts to get into all the top clubs, loads of premeds and prelaw or finance bro types chasing wall street, with some niche-subject phD strivers thrown in. They all have research or internships during the semester, and are all in on club leadership. They drink far less at Duke than back in the 90s, yet the majority still does some drinking, but on average not every weekend once the semester ramps up. In that sense it is almost exactly the same as the ivy. Greek is not on campus, has not been for years, and less than half the student body participates in rush. The big difference is more sports-obsession with Duke Basketball--the nerd-centric students have even turned that into testing to tent which they study for weeks, for fun. Ivies do not have sports obsession.
The students from kids' prep school who went to UCLA/USC and SMU were a different mold and not nerdy, but also not 99th%ile top of the class/smartest kids, more like average (or below for SMU--kids in the bottom math levels and don't get into the stem APs).

Duke is still very different from most of the ivy+ Most of the kids there have seem to have some sort of sport or non-academic activity like theater that took up a lot of their time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.

Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin

I’ve heard from alums that Stanford has changed a lot. It used to draw interesting, semi-laid back geniuses and athletes, now it’s mostly strivers. Lots of kids that aspire to be in Forbes under 30. Not that different from Harvard nowadays.

Folks…what is comical about these posts is what is unsaid. Stanford had a 40% acceptance rate in the 1990s, as did just about all these schools (Chicago was over 50%).

Let’s just be honest…they used to take weaker students in general.

Guess what…geniuses are still going to these top schools, whether laid back or not. Obviously, Stanford takes athletes…more than say 30 years ago because there are more sports…so nothing has changed there.

Every application was an artists original. There wasn't a common application. There was no realistic way to apply to more than maybe 10 schools. So self selection played a bigger factor back then than it does today.

These days with the common application it is not uncommon to see kids apply to over 10 schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when you migrate from a lur mediocre rich privileged white guy system toward a meritocratic equity system.

When being the "top" takes work not birth, you end up with the hard workers.

YES. Smart is the new Rich.

Smart has been the pathway to rich (or at least financially secure) for a pretty long time.

[Anonymous]

There is no point stressing about it because the odds of going to ivies is slim. It is almost like the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

Duke is not laid back social partiers who are somewhat smart anymore. It is not the 80s and 90s. I went there c/o 91. Duke now is nerds and more nerds, maybe more social than some ivies but not by much. Most of my classmates would not get in now. Most of their kids do not: it is the nerdy ones, kids of nerds like me, who do. 85-90% of legacies are denied. We have one there and her brother is a senior at at a top ivy, and we have relatives at another ivy. The ivies and ivy+ are all of that same mold--they have 75% of students who are 99th percentile testers AND were also at or near the top of their high school. They are highly driven students with interviews/cuts to get into all the top clubs, loads of premeds and prelaw or finance bro types chasing wall street, with some niche-subject phD strivers thrown in. They all have research or internships during the semester, and are all in on club leadership. They drink far less at Duke than back in the 90s, yet the majority still does some drinking, but on average not every weekend once the semester ramps up. In that sense it is almost exactly the same as the ivy. Greek is not on campus, has not been for years, and less than half the student body participates in rush. The big difference is more sports-obsession with Duke Basketball--the nerd-centric students have even turned that into testing to tent which they study for weeks, for fun. Ivies do not have sports obsession.
The students from kids' prep school who went to UCLA/USC and SMU were a different mold and not nerdy, but also not 99th%ile top of the class/smartest kids, more like average (or below for SMU--kids in the bottom math levels and don't get into the stem APs).

Duke still has a lot more hot girls than the ivies

I live in a major east coast city — not dc — and the Duke alumna at run club are way hotter than the other t20 — but especially hypsm alumna.

Honestly I think this may just be a regional effect.
Southern girls frequently just take care of themselves better. Looking good is almost part of striving.
Almost as if they think that being attractive and presentable is going to help them in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in a really wealthy area and it’s surprisingly not that competitive about college admissions. Top ranked public school, average house now over 2.5m in our district and people just want their kids to get into state schools. A small handful go on to more prestigious universities but for the most part people go to middle of the road schools and don’t stress about it. Top 5 % kids go to Georgia or Michigan. Duke and UCLA would be considered elite.

UT Austin is extremely desirable at HP due to the Greek system especially. These kids pledge the top sororities/fraternities there and then marry other kids from HP or from the other dozen or so right high school/camps that make up this group then they move back to HP or the other 5-6 Texas neighborhoods in the big cities in Texas/3-5 small cities and rinse and repeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.

Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin

I’ve heard from alums that Stanford has changed a lot. It used to draw interesting, semi-laid back geniuses and athletes, now it’s mostly strivers. Lots of kids that aspire to be in Forbes under 30. Not that different from Harvard nowadays.

If list is correct, U of Chicago has changed a ton since my day and it makes me sad. The uniqueness of their students used to be pride in the rigor, and a brand of fun that made sense to their students but was not mainstream traditional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.

Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin

I’ve heard from alums that Stanford has changed a lot. It used to draw interesting, semi-laid back geniuses and athletes, now it’s mostly strivers. Lots of kids that aspire to be in Forbes under 30. Not that different from Harvard nowadays.

If list is correct, U of Chicago has changed a ton since my day and it makes me sad. The uniqueness of their students used to be pride in the rigor, and a brand of fun that made sense to their students but was not mainstream traditional

Uchicago is where the social kids at our private ED to - and Northwestern (Nerdwestern) is where nerdier kids go. Just from our private.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

^You must be in the south and "advise" really dumb kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would imagine LA is like this.

It is. It’s not nearly as brand name conscious as DMV or NY ‘burbs. USC is the big enchilada here.

wtf are you talking about? Harvard Westlake and other LA prep schools send tons of kids to East Coast schools.

Also, kids don’t want to stay in their hometown for college…so USC isn’t the big enchilada for LA kids.

LA kids rather want to go to USC than UCLA.
That's for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Highland Park

Chicago?

A lot of those kids aren't that academically competitive.

Dallas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you toured the top 20 schools in the last 2 years and actually noticed the students at these schools? Have you seen the kids on the tours with you? The demographic of top 20 schools has changed drastically. The kids attending skew nerdy and awkward. If you are more of a “smart, social kid that likes to party” type, the Ivy and Ivy+ are not that appealing — especially if you are already a part of the 1%. The top 20s used to be filled with kids like this, but those days are gone.

this ^ 100% - I advise kids and invariably it is the parents and hard core nerds looking for ivies. The cool, relaxed, athletic, social - and most of all, smart - kids want the Dukes, Vandies, SMU, UCLAs of the world. The tide shifted post covid and is only accelerating. Often a big disconnect between the striving parent (just saw this term on another post - luv it) who is ivy or bust, and what the kid wants. And where the kid doesn’t get a say, it’s almost as if they are robots saying “yes, I want ivy”

It's not like getting into Duke, Vandy, UCLA (oos) is easy either though.... These would still be considered hard admits even from a top DMV private

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a top 5 school in the 90s. There was a mix of kids: nerds, quirky types, rich kids, etc. Now it’s not a mixture anymore. All strivers with no social lives and no goals other than HYPSM. I wouldn’t encourage my kids to go for it.

Where would you encourage?

In my research (and talking to grads from our private HS), social, smart savvy kids seem to like:

Vanderbilt
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Cornell (big Greek life/fratty scene)
UChicago
USC
Middlebury
Colgate
Syracuse
U-Miami
Tulane
SMU

And for public flagships:
Michigan
UCLA
UVA
Wisconsin

I’ve heard from alums that Stanford has changed a lot. It used to draw interesting, semi-laid back geniuses and athletes, now it’s mostly strivers. Lots of kids that aspire to be in Forbes under 30. Not that different from Harvard nowadays.

If list is correct, U of Chicago has changed a ton since my day and it makes me sad. The uniqueness of their students used to be pride in the rigor, and a brand of fun that made sense to their students but was not mainstream traditional

Uchicago is where the social kids at our private ED to - and Northwestern (Nerdwestern) is where nerdier kids go. Just from our private.....

Not at our private, Chicago still gets the geeky kids. That’s the problem with anecdotal info.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Highland Park

Chicago?

A lot of those kids aren't that academically competitive.

No, Dallas. But that’s the point. Just a very different mindset in different regions than DC\NE. Many of them have the same natural intelligence as NE. Don’t be an elitist.