If your student struggled academically in college…

[Anonymous]

It's the education system in the country being messed up. High schools supposed to get kids college ready, but they are not doing their job. They give out easy grades, the College board gives out high sat scores and high AP scores. Every one has high stats, and everyone seems happy.

When they are in college (any college, state uni or T25), they suddenly found out that they were under prepared. The valedictorian in high school suddenly found out they are getting their first C or D in life. Mental stress, depression follows.

Ivy leagues make it super easy for the students by inflating GPA to the moon. Everyone gets at least a B+. So they are fine.

But state univ are unforgiving with touch curves. Many kids at state univ suffer compared to ivy leagues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I say it’s a few things. She says that her high school was harder than Yale, which does check out with where she went.

From how she’s talked to me about the situation, I think the academic intensity did take her by storm—as in the way students are laser focused on college compared to maybe other choices and how competitive it is to produce “good work.” She also had a pretty terrible housing situation and doesn’t really like the social scene for her reasons.

I try not to pry too much, unless she asks for guidance, but I do think it’s an academic culture mismatch

+1

My DD dropped out of CMU after her freshman year. She scored 1590 on the SAT, 36 on the ACT, and had 12 AP classes in HS. Her problem was that once she got to CMU, it was a very competitive/cut throat environment, and she could not handle just being average. My employer's CEO who graduated from Virginia Tech, had a talk with her and told her that there is no shame in transferring out of CMU. DD took a gap year, and she is now at VCU majoring in biomedical engineering, and she is very happy there. She has other things in her life, such as having a bf, time to practice her violin and piano. I am very happy for her.

hmm - a tiger mom perchance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

OP here. Thanks for sharing about her experience. My DD is planning on applying test optional, too. She is not aiming as high though potentially test score mismatched as well.

As if that is an intelligence test that proves all. Come on. If a student can achieve at a rigorous high school, they can achieve at college. Is the high school not difficult and an easy A?
What is MBB?

[Anonymous]

When they are in college (any college, state uni or T25), they suddenly found out that they were under prepared. The valedictorian in high school suddenly found out they are getting their first C or D in life. Mental stress, depression follows.

This often happened in the 80s before high school grade inflation and SAT score inflation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's the education system in the country being messed up. High schools supposed to get kids college ready, but they are not doing their job. They give out easy grades, the College board gives out high sat scores and high AP scores. Every one has high stats, and everyone seems happy.

When they are in college (any college, state uni or T25), they suddenly found out that they were under prepared. The valedictorian in high school suddenly found out they are getting their first C or D in life. Mental stress, depression follows.

Ivy leagues make it super easy for the students by inflating GPA to the moon. Everyone gets at least a B+. So they are fine.

But state univ are unforgiving with touch curves. Many kids at state univ suffer compared to ivy leagues.

This is true.

Ivy leagues have a "too big to fail" type mentality and don't want to have a high drop out rate or low GPA average for the student body. They will do whatever it takes to keep you in there and pass the class, including letting you drop a class right before final and retake the class over and over.

You can't do that in big state u. It's a sink or swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see OP (as well as another Yalie in this thread) hasn't answered what MBB is. I am going to guess that it's molecular biology and biochemistry. Maybe?

Op here: I was the first one asking the Yale poster about MBB. From my googling, it seems that it is shorthand for McKinsey, Bain, and Boston Consulting Group so her daughter is gunning to go into consulting at a prestigious firm.

People on DCUM do use MBB in the business context. Consulting is one of the most common destinations of Ivy grads. It just seems in this case MBB refers to something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I say it’s a few things. She says that her high school was harder than Yale, which does check out with where she went.

From how she’s talked to me about the situation, I think the academic intensity did take her by storm—as in the way students are laser focused on college compared to maybe other choices and how competitive it is to produce “good work.” She also had a pretty terrible housing situation and doesn’t really like the social scene for her reasons.

I try not to pry too much, unless she asks for guidance, but I do think it’s an academic culture mismatch

+1

My DD dropped out of CMU after her freshman year. She scored 1590 on the SAT, 36 on the ACT, and had 12 AP classes in HS. Her problem was that once she got to CMU, it was a very competitive/cut throat environment, and she could not handle just being average. My employer's CEO who graduated from Virginia Tech, had a talk with her and told her that there is no shame in transferring out of CMU. DD took a gap year, and she is now at VCU majoring in biomedical engineering, and she is very happy there. She has other things in her life, such as having a bf, time to practice her violin and piano. I am very happy for her.

hmm - a tiger mom perchance?

dp.. I made my kids practice their piano when they were taking lessons in ES. I let them quit when they were like 10 because they begged me to; I knew that they would regret it one day. And I was right. They are older teens n ow, and they regret quitting. They will sit at the piano once in a while and play something. My one kid even took up the guitar and said how much they regretted not continuing piano. Sometimes, parents really do know what's best for their kids and a bit of tiger parenting is warranted. My DC told me I should've pushed them more (they are now 19).

And agree with the ^PP. My kid had a 1580 SAT, 4.0 unwgpa, from a magnet. They wanted CMU. I didn't know much about the atmosphere in that school, but after having visited with someone we knew, and hearing stories of how miserable all the kids were, I told DC that they would've been miserable at CMU, and they agree.

I think smart kids can hack the academics, but sometimes, the atmosphere doesn't fit, and they will be miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the education system in the country being messed up. High schools supposed to get kids college ready, but they are not doing their job. They give out easy grades, the College board gives out high sat scores and high AP scores. Every one has high stats, and everyone seems happy.

When they are in college (any college, state uni or T25), they suddenly found out that they were under prepared. The valedictorian in high school suddenly found out they are getting their first C or D in life. Mental stress, depression follows.

Ivy leagues make it super easy for the students by inflating GPA to the moon. Everyone gets at least a B+. So they are fine.

But state univ are unforgiving with touch curves. Many kids at state univ suffer compared to ivy leagues.

This is true.

Ivy leagues have a "too big to fail" type mentality and don't want to have a high drop out rate or low GPA average for the student body. They will do whatever it takes to keep you in there and pass the class, including letting you drop a class right before final and retake the class over and over.

You can't do that in big state u. It's a sink or swim.

Tell me you didn't go to an Ivy.

I just roll my eyes at all of the Ivy comments on these boards. You have very high test scores, perfect AP exams and rigorous course loads---with 3-5% acceptance rates. The kids getting into Ivies aren't chumps. Grades were not given out like candy. And, no we couldn't drop a class whenever we wanted. WTF.

UVA was known to have the biggest grade inflation when my sister was there. Pretty much talk to any UVA student and they had at least a 3.9.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my DC just finished up frosh year at one of these schools - worried about academic intensity going in since was admitted TO and had a 1320 SAT. Said the biggest issue was impostor syndrome, or as she said “feeling like you don’t belong”. Kids need to push past that as the school saw a reason to admit, and as she said “most of the Sidwell kids I know paid for their scores - or at least the last 200 points”. Pretty funny comment but that’s what these kids think - that SAT scores can be rigged with extensive - and i do mean extensive - paid prep. Oh and she wound up with a 4.0 second semester, after a somewhat shaky start. Kamala will never let tests come back in California, and she may abolish testing nationwide. She is one smart and savvy cookie!

I believe you can buy points if you have sufficient starting intelligence and are intensively tutored.

When I finally went to grad school, I trained myself intensely for the GMAT. I was able to raise my math scores to a level where I got a 97%ile overall score. During college, my more natural GMAT overall was down in the 80%iles. Also my SAT math. I never got tutoring at any point. But I did drill myself and as a late 20s adult, I was prepared to systematically analyze and address my patterns of mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference between a high 1300s and 1500s SAT likely shows up in sophistication of writing and speed of absorbing quantitative concepts. That would put one at a disadvantage for taking tests and writing papers in many types of classes.

I've also noticed that people at the 700+ SAT level don't understand why it's hard for people to to score that high. They don't really get how people didn't internalize algebra, etc. So there's not always sympathy to be found among peers.

The difference is huge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's the education system in the country being messed up. High schools supposed to get kids college ready, but they are not doing their job. They give out easy grades, the College board gives out high sat scores and high AP scores. Every one has high stats, and everyone seems happy.

When they are in college (any college, state uni or T25), they suddenly found out that they were under prepared. The valedictorian in high school suddenly found out they are getting their first C or D in life. Mental stress, depression follows.

Ivy leagues make it super easy for the students by inflating GPA to the moon. Everyone gets at least a B+. So they are fine.

But state univ are unforgiving with touch curves. Many kids at state univ suffer compared to ivy leagues.

You definitely did not go to an ivy/T10 nor do your kids. There is no dropping a class that late without a medical reason, same with the state schools. The median on science /math /econ tests is commonly 40-70% correct which is “curved” to a B meaning half of the students get a B- or lower. In some cases the upper level courses might be curved to a B+ which still means HALF the class gets below that. I have friends with kids in premed at WM and Uva: guess what they curve about the same, median is usually a B. Some non-curved writing/analysis courses have the median grade as an A-.
Even back in the day the T10/ivies had easier grading distribution in humanities.
The volume of reading per week for the elite schools and the depth of analysis required on problem sets is much more difficult than public schools and private schools outside the T50 or so. Talk to professors who have taught at both. Look at syllabi for courses.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
And I know at least a dozen valedictorians through my kids and their friends at their ivy and none of them have Cs or Ds, though they all had good high schools. Students there do, but it is not correlated to being valedictorian: it depends on the rigor of their high school preparedness

[Anonymous]

Obviously test scores can be raised with tons of expensive prep. But for most from DCUM, you have the option to raise your scores. In my experience, 4-8 hours of intensive 1-1 test prep (done after multiple practice tests, will net you your "ideal score". In reality, after the first 4-5 hours, you will likely land on your final score.
So if you do 1-1 test prep and cannot get higher than 1340 after 10 hours, then your kid has found their score. I'd then search for schools where they can excel, and hint, a T25 might not be the best fit for most kids like that



What does the 1-1 test prep do for 4-8 hours that a student cannot do on their own using good study guides?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's the education system in the country being messed up. High schools supposed to get kids college ready, but they are not doing their job. They give out easy grades, the College board gives out high sat scores and high AP scores. Every one has high stats, and everyone seems happy.

When they are in college (any college, state uni or T25), they suddenly found out that they were under prepared. The valedictorian in high school suddenly found out they are getting their first C or D in life. Mental stress, depression follows.

Ivy leagues make it super easy for the students by inflating GPA to the moon. Everyone gets at least a B+. So they are fine.

But state univ are unforgiving with touch curves. Many kids at state univ suffer compared to ivy leagues.

Because you have first hand knowledge of every student at every high school, and college/university?

[Anonymous]

All the ivies are doing this now. Over 60% of the student body gets A. The rest are B (the lowest possible grade). The grade inflation is shooting to the moon.

If you could, get your kids into an ivy, not a state university.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022...s-to-soar-data-shows

[Anonymous]

Professors in state univ will give a kid a big fat F without hesitation, for simply missing the deadline for a millisecond.