If your student struggled academically in college…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference between a high 1300s and 1500s SAT likely shows up in sophistication of writing and speed of absorbing quantitative concepts. That would put one at a disadvantage for taking tests and writing papers in many types of classes.

I've also noticed that people at the 700+ SAT level don't understand why it's hard for people to to score that high. They don't really get how people didn't internalize algebra, etc. So there's not always sympathy to be found among peers.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. The piece about test score matching is so interesting to me.

I’ve always dismissed the idea that test scores were a legit predictor of college performance. I’ve viewed them more as an indicator of a kid’s ability to excel at standardized tests, plus their access/commitment to good test prep. (I say this as someone who had excellent test scores but struggled at my top-tier college (probably due to lack of preparation at my relatively easy HS) and then excelled in grad school (no doubt due to the rigor of my college experience.))

So … as DC builds their list of schools, maybe we should be paying closer attention to where their SAT scores fall in the distribution for each schoo? Not just to try to predict admissions, but also to consider fit and college experience. What do others think? DC will still apply to reaches, of course. But if they end up accepted somewhere where their SAT is at the lower end of the range, that may be an indicator of their fit/success at that school. (I’m thinking about college grades but also about other opportunities - their connections with classmates and professors, extracurriculars and internships etc.)

Thoughts? Others’ experiences with this?

Look at pre-TO ranges of enrolled students, found on CDS 2019-2020. That is the group of freshman on campus 2019. If the kid wants stem/premed they should be above the median, ideally closer to the 75th%ile, or they have little chance of beating the curves in the stem classes. Humanities matters too but the median class grade in many humanities classes is A-(3.7), whereas in stem it is B(3.0). At the very top tier schools a 3.6 premed gpa is ok, at all others it needs to be 3.8 minimum. All things being equal.
Dartmouth, yale, cornell, Mit and many others have come out on record saying they have the data showing test scores matter, for student success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Test scores are a better equalizer than GPA.

Nope

[Anonymous]

Both my kids have LDs ..

One went T30 and struggled, learned to lean on tutors and figured it out, graduated from graduate school easily.

One went SEC … 2020 kid, got very ill sophomore year. It’s been a big struggle.

I wish both would have started in a major they lived instead of business.

[Anonymous]

OP, that was me. Not in college, but in law school. I chased prestige over fit and school culture. It was absolutely a mistake and I emphasize to my kids that the best school is the one they will thrive in and learn to love what they’re doing. Good luck, it’s a hard mind set change for her and hard for you as well.

[Anonymous]

I see OP (as well as another Yalie in this thread) hasn't answered what MBB is. I am going to guess that it's molecular biology and biochemistry. Maybe?

[Anonymous]

I went to a college that was out of my league, and it really affected my self esteem.

Did much better in graduate school when I was older and wiser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

What was her hook, to get in?

Being a white wealthy woman. At least that’s what she is. She had pretty solid stats outside the scores, but the scores were important context

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see OP (as well as another Yalie in this thread) hasn't answered what MBB is. I am going to guess that it's molecular biology and biochemistry. Maybe?

Op here: I was the first one asking the Yale poster about MBB. From my googling, it seems that it is shorthand for McKinsey, Bain, and Boston Consulting Group so her daughter is gunning to go into consulting at a prestigious firm.

[Anonymous]

Yes. A smaller school with more accountability would’ve been better than state flagship. Too much partying, didn’t go to class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see OP (as well as another Yalie in this thread) hasn't answered what MBB is. I am going to guess that it's molecular biology and biochemistry. Maybe?

Op here: I was the first one asking the Yale poster about MBB. From my googling, it seems that it is shorthand for McKinsey, Bain, and Boston Consulting Group so her daughter is gunning to go into consulting at a prestigious firm.

After re-reading maybe it is molecular biology and biochem like you thought!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference between a high 1300s and 1500s SAT likely shows up in sophistication of writing and speed of absorbing quantitative concepts. That would put one at a disadvantage for taking tests and writing papers in many types of classes.

I've also noticed that people at the 700+ SAT level don't understand why it's hard for people to to score that high. They don't really get how people didn't internalize algebra, etc. So there's not always sympathy to be found among peers.

Don’t underestimate disliking your major and the lack of motivation that comes with that for kids that are struggling.

My kid is at an Ivy in a STEM field and knows a decent number of kids in the major that basically hate it but the parents have decided it’s the only way to a good job.

There are classmates with 1550+ SAT scores that are struggling because you can no longer brute force through the classes and do well. It’s not intelligence, its that they desperately want to study something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both my kids have LDs ..

One went T30 and struggled, learned to lean on tutors and figured it out, graduated from graduate school easily.

One went SEC … 2020 kid, got very ill sophomore year. It’s been a big struggle.

I wish both would have started in a major they lived instead of business.

OP here. Did they pick business because they thought it would lead to a job and $? My DC isn't sure what they want to do and is also considering starting as a business major. Maybe it's better to go in undecided!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. A smaller school with more accountability would’ve been better than state flagship. Too much partying, didn’t go to class.

OP here. This is one of the things I worry about. DC doesn't want a smaller school, but I think it might be better for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never pushed DC to do anything, but she had a real passion for getting into an Ivy. She's always chased "prestige," and lord I wish I know where she got it from. She's now at Yale and well...very very unhappy. Test optional 1380 SAT and 31 ACT. She's very creative, and I honestly see a future where she's in advertising, but she's too stuck in the MBB cycle to actually take up a passion. She hated her first semester academically and clawed to transfer. She stuck it out, but if I could go back, I really would've encouraged her to submit test scores and be at an appropriate fit.

Was the work legit too hard / too much or is it just stress and anxiety?

A big problem for me was that high school was so easy that I didn’t have to work hard, and I didn’t really know how to work hard when I got to college. But your DD must have worked hard in HS to get into Yale TO.

And let’s not forget, Yale thought she was capable of succeeding at Yale…

OP. Yes, I worry that not having good study skills because they've gotten by so far will be an issue. Guess we still have a year to try to help them develop better ones.