MS Capitol Hill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can look at enrollment pathways for kids in Capitol Hill elementary schools between 4th grade and 5th grade. It gives you an idea, but still doesn't show how sibling preference influences those pathways. This is also data from 2021-2022 and it seems like it's gotten even more competitive to get into the Latins or Basis since then?

https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways

It's much, much harder to get into Latin Cooper. I'm not sure it's harder to get into BASIS.

Taking a couple examples:

Brent:
Out of at least 71 4th graders in 2021-2022 (can't tell exactly how many there were from this chart):
-13 went to Latin PCS
-11 went to Latin Cooper
-10 went to Basis

Presumably some of these had sibling preference so odds are lower than they seem, plus this was a few years ago so odds are even worse now.

I tried to pull Maury numbers but it was <10 4th graders for each individual school (Latin PCS, Cooper, or Basis) so can't really calculate

You could ballpark the number of kids with sibling preference by looking at what percentage of kids accepted to the school are siblings, in total.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can look at enrollment pathways for kids in Capitol Hill elementary schools between 4th grade and 5th grade. It gives you an idea, but still doesn't show how sibling preference influences those pathways. This is also data from 2021-2022 and it seems like it's gotten even more competitive to get into the Latins or Basis since then?

https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways

It's much, much harder to get into Latin Cooper. I'm not sure it's harder to get into BASIS.

Taking a couple examples:

Brent:
Out of at least 71 4th graders in 2021-2022 (can't tell exactly how many there were from this chart):
-13 went to Latin PCS
-11 went to Latin Cooper
-10 went to Basis

Presumably some of these had sibling preference so odds are lower than they seem, plus this was a few years ago so odds are even worse now.

I tried to pull Maury numbers but it was <10 4th graders for each individual school (Latin PCS, Cooper, or Basis) so can't really calculate

You could ballpark the number of kids with sibling preference by looking at what percentage of kids accepted to the school are siblings, in total.

At Latin 2nd, it's nearly half siblings in the initial lottery. Less so at Cooper, for now, understandable because they have fewer older kids to confer sibling preference.

The impact of EA, twins, staff preference, and any other preferences, are small but not nothing.

But of course you can't assume that everyone applied to any or all of these schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the likelihood is that you will get into BASIS, Latin I or Latin II and you won’t face the choice of having to send your child to EH, where the overwhelming majority of students are below grade level. I wouldn’t borrow trouble.

Eh based how 4th grade families fared in the lottery at my kid's school, likelihood is low you'll get into any one of these. Maybe a 20-25% chance?

You can probably approximate the chances by using BASIS numbers, because BASIS has less demand than the Latins. There were 473 applications for BASIS this year and the original waitlist was 235. They've since made 44 offers. So about 60% of the kids who wanted BASIS have either gotten an offer or were accepted at preferred schools this year. Those aren't great odds, but they aren't terrible, either.

Scroll down on the page and you'll see how many were siblings or other preferences. 32 out of 140 matches.

Even so. 473 applied, and only 191 are left on the waitlist, so the remaining 282 had a bite at the apple. The siblings were first in line, but of non-siblings, 57% still got an offer or a preferred school.

Okay, but a lot of those kids who got in somewhere else they ranked higher also had a sibling somewhere else and that's why they got in there. I don't know if it's even possible to calculate the odds taking account of sibling status at all schools. But I see a lot of people in my circle (Bloomingdale/Brookland) striking out for 5th and 6th.

ITDS is not that great academically, and I say that as an ITDS middle school parent.

This part. The true odds can't be calculated, especially as most parents who have sibling preference still list other schools just in case, even if it's not logical.

By our own capitol hill school 4th grade parent reported lottery outcomes with many/most applying for Basis and the Latins (including some who applied in the lottery for the heck of it even knowing they had other plans like private or moving), highly doubt odds are over 25-30% without sibling preference and I'm being generous.

Anyone else who can speak from actual experience - what percent of your 4th grade Capitol Hill ES class actually made it into one of those schools (and didn't have sibling preference)?

At our school, kids without sibling preference did better at Latin 2nd Street than Cooper. Very few without sibling preference applied to BASIS because it was generally not a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can look at enrollment pathways for kids in Capitol Hill elementary schools between 4th grade and 5th grade. It gives you an idea, but still doesn't show how sibling preference influences those pathways. This is also data from 2021-2022 and it seems like it's gotten even more competitive to get into the Latins or Basis since then?

https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways

I mean how much harder can it get? Also it's not really even clear how many are getting in. I'm looking at the stats for Ludlow and it's less than 10 to either Latin campus or BASIS. So somewhere between 3 and 27 to those three schools for 5th grade. The school held onto 32 students for 5th so that's either almost as many going to Latin and BASIS as staying or almost none. It's useless data.

I will say that anyone counting on Latin and BASIS to solve their middle school dilemma is crazy. maybe you get lucky but the odds are very much against you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD didn't get into Latins or BASIS when she was in 4th, in spring 2023. Her number was in the 30th percentile of all numbers, and though she got pretty far on the BASIS list, it wasn't enough. I do think she might have gotten in if they were willing to make offers after the first day of school, but I guess that's just soooooo haaaaaaard.

Audited enrollment data for 5th grade in 23-24 was 134. They were fully enrolled. Sorry if this doesn't fit your narrative. Math is just soooooo haaaaaaard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD didn't get into Latins or BASIS when she was in 4th, in spring 2023. Her number was in the 30th percentile of all numbers, and though she got pretty far on the BASIS list, it wasn't enough. I do think she might have gotten in if they were willing to make offers after the first day of school, but I guess that's just soooooo haaaaaaard.

Audited enrollment data for 5th grade in 23-24 was 134. They were fully enrolled. Sorry if this doesn't fit your narrative. Math is just soooooo haaaaaaard.

I believe 135 is their target, but you do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can look at enrollment pathways for kids in Capitol Hill elementary schools between 4th grade and 5th grade. It gives you an idea, but still doesn't show how sibling preference influences those pathways. This is also data from 2021-2022 and it seems like it's gotten even more competitive to get into the Latins or Basis since then?

https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways

It's much, much harder to get into Latin Cooper. I'm not sure it's harder to get into BASIS.

Taking a couple examples:

Brent:
Out of at least 71 4th graders in 2021-2022 (can't tell exactly how many there were from this chart):
-13 went to Latin PCS
-11 went to Latin Cooper
-10 went to Basis

Presumably some of these had sibling preference so odds are lower than they seem, plus this was a few years ago so odds are even worse now.

I tried to pull Maury numbers but it was <10 4th graders for each individual school (Latin PCS, Cooper, or Basis) so can't really calculate

You could ballpark the number of kids with sibling preference by looking at what percentage of kids accepted to the school are siblings, in total.

+1

3 years is a lot of time in DCPS/MySchool/lottery world, So I think that data is only sort of helpful until they update it, which I think they are supposed to do this year.

I agree with prior posters saying that it is hard to make any clear conclusions with that data. And even if we had accurate information about how many kids went from each school to various middle schools, we don't know the denominator because I don't think they publish how many's kids per school enter the lottery in the first place.

If you read this forum or talk to enough people, I think you would find that demand for and enrollment in middle schools has changed in all direction the past 3 years. I would imagine some select charters have gotten increasingly difficult to get into, but there have also been increasing numbers of students going to other schools (DCPS or charter) in those years as well. Add to that the decreased enrollment in a few like 2 Rivers that may or may not rebound. In the span of that 3 years I know many peers of ours with kids in middle school and 4th who did not do lottery at all, and the number of parents in that boat seems to be larger than it may have been in the past.

All that to say, learn about the schools, talk to folks there and make decisions based on that instead of assuming prior data will apply to whenever you do the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD didn't get into Latins or BASIS when she was in 4th, in spring 2023. Her number was in the 30th percentile of all numbers, and though she got pretty far on the BASIS list, it wasn't enough. I do think she might have gotten in if they were willing to make offers after the first day of school, but I guess that's just soooooo haaaaaaard.

Audited enrollment data for 5th grade in 23-24 was 134. They were fully enrolled. Sorry if this doesn't fit your narrative. Math is just soooooo haaaaaaard.

I believe 135 is their target, but you do you.

THAT's what you took from this? Count day was October 5. Ms. Persecution Complex suggested her snowflake was harmed because BASIS wouldn't accept kids after Day 1. If only they had she would have gotten what she wanted. Except (1) BASIS did accept kids after Day 1 and (2) by October 5 there was at most one seat beyond projection. Easier for her to take cheap shots than deal with the reality that for once in her life, entitlement didn't come her way.

But somehow you want to prop her up on the cross. If that makes you happy, good on you sister!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Search this site. Roughly speaking, you will find the following options:

1. Move to the burbs. Unless, maybe, you go to Maury, you are already committing educational child abuse. EH is a nonstarter.

2. EH is wonderful and perfect and you’re probably racist if you think otherwise.

3. EH is definitely just as good as SH dammit.

4. SH is the only viable MS on Capitol Hill. It’s that, BASIS or Latins or trying to lottery for a Deal or Hardy or DCI feeder and committing to a horrendous commute.

4b. Same as above but plus ITDS.

4c. Same as above, but SH sucks too.

5. BASIS or die.

6. Latin is the only public MS in DC worth attending. Go there or go private or move.

7. Lottery for everything all the time. Don’t worry about it unless you actually get in somewhere. If you don’t, try EH. It definitely works for some kids. If it doesn’t work for yours, move or private for HS.

LOL!! Hilarious and true.

One other actual option: If you take a hard look at all three Hill middles and don’t like what you see, check out other middles with good reputations (Hardy, Deal and SWW@Francis-Stephens are probably most frequently mentioned here and some would add Wells to that list.) If you like one of them and don’t mind the commute, work backward and lottery for their feeder elementary schools, maybe along with charters in grade 5.

[Anonymous]

EH is a relatively small middle school. That actually helps in managing student behavior.

[Anonymous]

There have been violent incidents at EH within the last year. The main concern is whether kids are actually learning any on grade level material. The 8th grade ELA and math scores don’t crack 20% proficiency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There have been violent incidents at EH within the last year. The main concern is whether kids are actually learning any on grade level material. The 8th grade ELA and math scores don’t crack 20% proficiency.

Do you have a kid there? It’s curious how you dug up this thread after almost 2 weeks of inactivity to post this.

counterpoint: my kid at EH has said he has never seen a “violent incident” whatever that means. He has recounted some fights (that were between white kids fwiw …) It sounds much calmer than I have heard about other MS. I’ve been there at arrival and dismissal and it’s very well controlled. They are very strict on behavior and will remove/suspend/give detention as needed.

AFAIK the most recent 8th grade scores reflect the worst of the post-pandemic year that saw a big narrowing of the class size. But I know kids from that year that went on to HS that anyone here posting would be thrilled about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been violent incidents at EH within the last year. The main concern is whether kids are actually learning any on grade level material. The 8th grade ELA and math scores don’t crack 20% proficiency.

Do you have a kid there? It’s curious how you dug up this thread after almost 2 weeks of inactivity to post this.

counterpoint: my kid at EH has said he has never seen a “violent incident” whatever that means. He has recounted some fights (that were between white kids fwiw …) It sounds much calmer than I have heard about other MS. I’ve been there at arrival and dismissal and it’s very well controlled. They are very strict on behavior and will remove/suspend/give detention as needed.

AFAIK the most recent 8th grade scores reflect the worst of the post-pandemic year that saw a big narrowing of the class size. But I know kids from that year that went on to HS that anyone here posting would be thrilled about.

+1

DCPS puts us in a tough spot giving us one piece of standardized test data to use and compare schools - and 6 months after the fact at that. It wasn't just COVID that impacted things in the past few years at middle schools - at least at EH, part or all of those 3 years the kids were in trailers. Before/during that renovation I think that turned some families off. I wrote this last week before half of this thread was deleted - but I really wish that somehow the schools were able to share iReady or MAP growth at the cohort level to show how many students made 1, 2, or 3 years of growth during any given school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been violent incidents at EH within the last year. The main concern is whether kids are actually learning any on grade level material. The 8th grade ELA and math scores don’t crack 20% proficiency.

Do you have a kid there? It’s curious how you dug up this thread after almost 2 weeks of inactivity to post this.

counterpoint: my kid at EH has said he has never seen a “violent incident” whatever that means. He has recounted some fights (that were between white kids fwiw …) It sounds much calmer than I have heard about other MS. I’ve been there at arrival and dismissal and it’s very well controlled. They are very strict on behavior and will remove/suspend/give detention as needed.

AFAIK the most recent 8th grade scores reflect the worst of the post-pandemic year that saw a big narrowing of the class size. But I know kids from that year that went on to HS that anyone here posting would be thrilled about.

+1

DCPS puts us in a tough spot giving us one piece of standardized test data to use and compare schools - and 6 months after the fact at that. It wasn't just COVID that impacted things in the past few years at middle schools - at least at EH, part or all of those 3 years the kids were in trailers. Before/during that renovation I think that turned some families off. I wrote this last week before half of this thread was deleted - but I really wish that somehow the schools were able to share iReady or MAP growth at the cohort level to show how many students made 1, 2, or 3 years of growth during any given school year.

PARCC allows us to compare apples to apples. Elliot Hine wasn’t the only school that experienced the pandemic. That’s not really a great excuse when similar schools, such as SH, have double the proficiency scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been violent incidents at EH within the last year. The main concern is whether kids are actually learning any on grade level material. The 8th grade ELA and math scores don’t crack 20% proficiency.

Do you have a kid there? It’s curious how you dug up this thread after almost 2 weeks of inactivity to post this.

counterpoint: my kid at EH has said he has never seen a “violent incident” whatever that means. He has recounted some fights (that were between white kids fwiw …) It sounds much calmer than I have heard about other MS. I’ve been there at arrival and dismissal and it’s very well controlled. They are very strict on behavior and will remove/suspend/give detention as needed.

AFAIK the most recent 8th grade scores reflect the worst of the post-pandemic year that saw a big narrowing of the class size. But I know kids from that year that went on to HS that anyone here posting would be thrilled about.

+1

DCPS puts us in a tough spot giving us one piece of standardized test data to use and compare schools - and 6 months after the fact at that. It wasn't just COVID that impacted things in the past few years at middle schools - at least at EH, part or all of those 3 years the kids were in trailers. Before/during that renovation I think that turned some families off. I wrote this last week before half of this thread was deleted - but I really wish that somehow the schools were able to share iReady or MAP growth at the cohort level to show how many students made 1, 2, or 3 years of growth during any given school year.

PARCC allows us to compare apples to apples. Elliot Hine wasn’t the only school that experienced the pandemic. That’s not really a great excuse when similar schools, such as SH, have double the proficiency scores.

Ok please post here a breakdown comparing the results between SH and EH, stratified by at risk/not at risk, and by race. Then please take a look at the aggregate SH v EH scores and explain how they are meaningfully different.