MS Capitol Hill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm admittedly not great at working with the PARCC data spreadsheets, but from what I can tell, EH's 7th grade math results for white kids* looks basically identical to all other schools, and even better than some DCUM favs:

% Meets/Exceeds:
EH - 84%
SH - 70%
Deal - 86%
Hardy - 81%
Basis - 87%
Latin - 82%
DCI- 69%

* I'm only breaking this down for white kids to dispel the notion that your privileged kid will not learn anything. I would love to do a deeper dive on how the MS do with educating other demographics but that's not really what the discussion is about here, is it?

For me it is. You’re comparing a tiny subset of all test takers at Elliot Hine to cherry pick data, when the data shows that the vast majority of kids at Elliot Hine are below grade level. The vast majority of kids are at or above grade level at all those other schools (except perhaps
SH). You cannot tell me that the learning environment at Elliot Hine is going to come close to the same level of education as those other schools when you have so many students struggling with grade level material.

Yes I can tell you that, because PARCC is heavily content based, and the kids like mine do exactly the same as they’d do at the more affluent Deal or sought-after Latin. And I can see my kid growing and maturing nicely, learning to manage his workload, get along with others, have fun, and all those good things along with being able to roll out of bed at 8am and walk to school.

You are delusional if you think students at EH are learning all the same material as students at Deal, Latin or BASIS. Proficient in PARCC material is the floor.

+1. And I call BS that families at EH don’t supplement and that very high performing kids are going there and getting what they need.

Some people on here are so strange. You literally have multiple parents who are on here sharing their actual experience, and from the outside anonymous keyboard accuse them of lying? Seems to say more about you if you think kids can't possibly do well without supplementing?
And separately, I think it is possible to agree both that kids in these middle schools are learning, and also agree that standardized tests don't actually measure a whole lot about the kids true skills/abilities. That is a whole separate thread for another time.

What motivates them is a psychological defense mechanism. They are so obsessed with the success of their own kids and the sacrifices they make, that they cannot accept that some families in their own demographic will make a different choice and do just fine. It shakes their world view.

I can speak to what motivates me. I know several EH families and they’re constantly trying to get other people to send their high performing kids to EH so their own children will have a good cohort because they struck out in the lottery. They come on this website and post misleading things about the test scores in every thread, including this one. If they truly thought the school was good, they wouldn’t be trying to change its demographics so desperately. It’s gross.

That’s quite a fairy tale. And the test scores posted here are accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm admittedly not great at working with the PARCC data spreadsheets, but from what I can tell, EH's 7th grade math results for white kids* looks basically identical to all other schools, and even better than some DCUM favs:

% Meets/Exceeds:
EH - 84%
SH - 70%
Deal - 86%
Hardy - 81%
Basis - 87%
Latin - 82%
DCI- 69%

* I'm only breaking this down for white kids to dispel the notion that your privileged kid will not learn anything. I would love to do a deeper dive on how the MS do with educating other demographics but that's not really what the discussion is about here, is it?

For me it is. You’re comparing a tiny subset of all test takers at Elliot Hine to cherry pick data, when the data shows that the vast majority of kids at Elliot Hine are below grade level. The vast majority of kids are at or above grade level at all those other schools (except perhaps
SH). You cannot tell me that the learning environment at Elliot Hine is going to come close to the same level of education as those other schools when you have so many students struggling with grade level material.

Yes I can tell you that, because PARCC is heavily content based, and the kids like mine do exactly the same as they’d do at the more affluent Deal or sought-after Latin. And I can see my kid growing and maturing nicely, learning to manage his workload, get along with others, have fun, and all those good things along with being able to roll out of bed at 8am and walk to school.

You are delusional if you think students at EH are learning all the same material as students at Deal, Latin or BASIS. Proficient in PARCC material is the floor.

Ok well, do you have a child at EH? If PARCC is the floor then explain how EH is doing substantially better than Latin and DCI, two HRCS around here?

It’s literally not. It’s doing substantially worse. You just picked your favorite data subset so you could ignore the vast majority of EH kids.

No, that’s not what those numbers mean. The numbers mean that your privileged kid, as measured by PARCC, will do just as well or better at EH as any other DC MS. Obviously EH has more at-risk kids than some other schools in DC. But what I and other parents are telling you is that so far this isn’t a problem. Nobody is trying to conceal the diversity of the school. We’re telling you the school has been a positive experience in many ways. If you don’t want your kid to go to school with at-risk kids then DC schools probably are not for you, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm admittedly not great at working with the PARCC data spreadsheets, but from what I can tell, EH's 7th grade math results for white kids* looks basically identical to all other schools, and even better than some DCUM favs:

% Meets/Exceeds:
EH - 84%
SH - 70%
Deal - 86%
Hardy - 81%
Basis - 87%
Latin - 82%
DCI- 69%

* I'm only breaking this down for white kids to dispel the notion that your privileged kid will not learn anything. I would love to do a deeper dive on how the MS do with educating other demographics but that's not really what the discussion is about here, is it?

For me it is. You’re comparing a tiny subset of all test takers at Elliot Hine to cherry pick data, when the data shows that the vast majority of kids at Elliot Hine are below grade level. The vast majority of kids are at or above grade level at all those other schools (except perhaps
SH). You cannot tell me that the learning environment at Elliot Hine is going to come close to the same level of education as those other schools when you have so many students struggling with grade level material.

Yes I can tell you that, because PARCC is heavily content based, and the kids like mine do exactly the same as they’d do at the more affluent Deal or sought-after Latin. And I can see my kid growing and maturing nicely, learning to manage his workload, get along with others, have fun, and all those good things along with being able to roll out of bed at 8am and walk to school.

You are delusional if you think students at EH are learning all the same material as students at Deal, Latin or BASIS. Proficient in PARCC material is the floor.

+1. And I call BS that families at EH don’t supplement and that very high performing kids are going there and getting what they need.

Some people on here are so strange. You literally have multiple parents who are on here sharing their actual experience, and from the outside anonymous keyboard accuse them of lying? Seems to say more about you if you think kids can't possibly do well without supplementing?
And separately, I think it is possible to agree both that kids in these middle schools are learning, and also agree that standardized tests don't actually measure a whole lot about the kids true skills/abilities. That is a whole separate thread for another time.

What motivates them is a psychological defense mechanism. They are so obsessed with the success of their own kids and the sacrifices they make, that they cannot accept that some families in their own demographic will make a different choice and do just fine. It shakes their world view.

I can speak to what motivates me. I know several EH families and they’re constantly trying to get other people to send their high performing kids to EH so their own children will have a good cohort because they struck out in the lottery. They come on this website and post misleading things about the test scores in every thread, including this one. If they truly thought the school was good, they wouldn’t be trying to change its demographics so desperately. It’s gross.

I don't think families trying to "recruit" similar families to the school is incompatible with the school being good/working for those families. Growing up, I was in a high-performing district that had one high school with much lower test scores (and, from that, rating). It had the highest concentration of lower-SES students in the district, and the highest-SES families opted out for private, artificially deflating the scores, causing other higher-SES families with options to opt-out, depressing the test scores, and so on. Who knows what came first or why. But if the higher-SES families in the district had all attended the school, it's scores and rating would have been indistinguishable from the others in the district.

Likewise, if more of the higher SES families in the Eliot-Hine district attended the school, it is obvious the overall scores would improve (and thereby attract more higher SES families), without anything about the school itself necessarily changing. That's what people mean when they say it's not a "bad" school. That said, obviously it would be better to have a larger/stronger cohort of on- and above-grade level students (especially if they ever get strong enough to force in true honors classes in all core subjects). There's nothing nefarious in it.

[Anonymous]

Look, if you will be satisfied with nothing less than a peer group 100% like your kid, no DCPS school will satisfy you.

That's not what people are saying. Some kids can be the only one at grade level and do well. Others need like minded school mates at the same level. I think there have been studies that say the breakpoint for many kids is about 25%. If a quarter of the class is at or above grade level they will be fine. THat's in part because teachers won't ignore this large a group.

Growth can be a meaningless statistic because there are schools or individual teachers in a school who focus on bringing kids 2 plus grades behind and ignore the kids at grade level. So the PARCC may show growth, but not many individual kids at level 4 move up to level 5.

I talked to a teacher friend in a different urban school district yesterday. She said her principal assigns the kids just below grade level to teachers he likes so they have better odds of showing "growth." All the teachers in the school are well aware of what he's doing. If you hit certain targets, you get paid more.

[Anonymous]

Don't really have a horse in this race (IB for upper NW here), but here are the PARCC pass scores for white students at DC/Charter middle schools in english (math is hard since places like Hardy/Deal have so many advanced students)

Pass Rate School
> 95 Eliot-Hine Middle School
> 95 Oyster-Adams Bilingual School
> 95 The Sojourner Truth School PCS
92.38 Deal Middle School
90.24 Washington Latin PCS - Anna Julia Cooper Middle School
88.88 Inspired Teaching Demonstration PCS
85.71 Stuart-Hobson Middle School (Capitol Hill Cluster)
85.64 Hardy Middle School
85.18 School Without Walls @ Francis-Stevens
84.84 Two Rivers PCS - Young Middle School
82.94 District of Columbia International School
82.35 Jefferson Middle School Academy
81.81 Creative Minds International PCS
79.89 Washington Latin PCS - Middle School
77.05 BASIS DC PCS

So yeah, EH seems pretty good. Now there may not be many white students - which I'm using as a proxy for upper middle class students. But those that stick around do very well. Significantly better than BASIS or Latin. About on par with OA and Deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't really have a horse in this race (IB for upper NW here), but here are the PARCC pass scores for white students at DC/Charter middle schools in english (math is hard since places like Hardy/Deal have so many advanced students)

Pass Rate School
> 95 Eliot-Hine Middle School
> 95 Oyster-Adams Bilingual School
> 95 The Sojourner Truth School PCS
92.38 Deal Middle School
90.24 Washington Latin PCS - Anna Julia Cooper Middle School
88.88 Inspired Teaching Demonstration PCS
85.71 Stuart-Hobson Middle School (Capitol Hill Cluster)
85.64 Hardy Middle School
85.18 School Without Walls @ Francis-Stevens
84.84 Two Rivers PCS - Young Middle School
82.94 District of Columbia International School
82.35 Jefferson Middle School Academy
81.81 Creative Minds International PCS
79.89 Washington Latin PCS - Middle School
77.05 BASIS DC PCS

So yeah, EH seems pretty good. Now there may not be many white students - which I'm using as a proxy for upper middle class students. But those that stick around do very well. Significantly better than BASIS or Latin. About on par with OA and Deal.

Where did you find these numbers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't really have a horse in this race (IB for upper NW here), but here are the PARCC pass scores for white students at DC/Charter middle schools in english (math is hard since places like Hardy/Deal have so many advanced students)

Pass Rate School
> 95 Eliot-Hine Middle School
> 95 Oyster-Adams Bilingual School
> 95 The Sojourner Truth School PCS
92.38 Deal Middle School
90.24 Washington Latin PCS - Anna Julia Cooper Middle School
88.88 Inspired Teaching Demonstration PCS
85.71 Stuart-Hobson Middle School (Capitol Hill Cluster)
85.64 Hardy Middle School
85.18 School Without Walls @ Francis-Stevens
84.84 Two Rivers PCS - Young Middle School
82.94 District of Columbia International School
82.35 Jefferson Middle School Academy
81.81 Creative Minds International PCS
79.89 Washington Latin PCS - Middle School
77.05 BASIS DC PCS

So yeah, EH seems pretty good. Now there may not be many white students - which I'm using as a proxy for upper middle class students. But those that stick around do very well. Significantly better than BASIS or Latin. About on par with OA and Deal.

Where did you find these numbers?

https://osse.dc.gov/assessmentresults2023

they have it broken down by race, grade level, etc. though samples with <10/<20 students are usually suppressed depending on the context for privacy.

but yeah, many of the worst performing white kids at reading are all at BASIS or Latin (old campus). The white kids at EH are pretty much the best in the city. now all sorts of issues on selection and other stuff (one possible story: some of the white kids who aren't good at reading lottery into BASIS/Latin from EH since they can't cut it there - many other stories)

[Anonymous]

what? you lost me in the kool-aid data comparison to basis and latin.

[Anonymous]

The BASIS number makes sense. Mathy kids who may struggle with reading are more likely to go to BASIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The BASIS number makes sense. Mathy kids who may struggle with reading are more likely to go to BASIS.

The Latin original campus number is weird though. You would expect the white kids lotterying into Latin to skew both wealthier (correlation with higher test scores) and more ELA focused (since a math-focused kid would presumably have ranked BASIS higher and gotten in there).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't really have a horse in this race (IB for upper NW here), but here are the PARCC pass scores for white students at DC/Charter middle schools in english (math is hard since places like Hardy/Deal have so many advanced students)

Pass Rate School
> 95 Eliot-Hine Middle School
> 95 Oyster-Adams Bilingual School
> 95 The Sojourner Truth School PCS
92.38 Deal Middle School
90.24 Washington Latin PCS - Anna Julia Cooper Middle School
88.88 Inspired Teaching Demonstration PCS
85.71 Stuart-Hobson Middle School (Capitol Hill Cluster)
85.64 Hardy Middle School
85.18 School Without Walls @ Francis-Stevens
84.84 Two Rivers PCS - Young Middle School
82.94 District of Columbia International School
82.35 Jefferson Middle School Academy
81.81 Creative Minds International PCS
79.89 Washington Latin PCS - Middle School
77.05 BASIS DC PCS

So yeah, EH seems pretty good. Now there may not be many white students - which I'm using as a proxy for upper middle class students. But those that stick around do very well. Significantly better than BASIS or Latin. About on par with OA and Deal.

Are you sure about these numbers? BASIS states that their ELA 4+ percentage is actually 86.7% (https://dcpcsb.org/basis-dc-pcs-high-school) , and myschoolDC has their 3+ ELA percentage at 93.4 percent (https://www.myschooldc.org/schools/profile/138).

[Anonymous]

And these are the numbers someone pulled on an earlier thread for 22-23

ELA

Basis 91.56
Deal 77.63
Latin 74.73

Math

Basis 63.85
Deal 61.72
Latin 44.21


High school

ELA

Walls 94.07
Basis 92.06
Latin 70.71
J-R 57.54

Math

Walls 67.44
Basis 66.12
Latin 30.47
J-R 25.00

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And these are the numbers someone pulled on an earlier thread for 22-23

ELA

Basis 91.56
Deal 77.63
Latin 74.73

Math

Basis 63.85
Deal 61.72
Latin 44.21


High school

ELA

Walls 94.07
Basis 92.06
Latin 70.71
J-R 57.54

Math

Walls 67.44
Basis 66.12
Latin 30.47
J-R 25.00

Are these numbers of 4s and 5s?
I will say I am curious to see the results for the 2023-2024 school year in a few months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't really have a horse in this race (IB for upper NW here), but here are the PARCC pass scores for white students at DC/Charter middle schools in english (math is hard since places like Hardy/Deal have so many advanced students)

Pass Rate School
> 95 Eliot-Hine Middle School
> 95 Oyster-Adams Bilingual School
> 95 The Sojourner Truth School PCS
92.38 Deal Middle School
90.24 Washington Latin PCS - Anna Julia Cooper Middle School
88.88 Inspired Teaching Demonstration PCS
85.71 Stuart-Hobson Middle School (Capitol Hill Cluster)
85.64 Hardy Middle School
85.18 School Without Walls @ Francis-Stevens
84.84 Two Rivers PCS - Young Middle School
82.94 District of Columbia International School
82.35 Jefferson Middle School Academy
81.81 Creative Minds International PCS
79.89 Washington Latin PCS - Middle School
77.05 BASIS DC PCS

So yeah, EH seems pretty good. Now there may not be many white students - which I'm using as a proxy for upper middle class students. But those that stick around do very well. Significantly better than BASIS or Latin. About on par with OA and Deal.

Are you sure about these numbers? BASIS states that their ELA 4+ percentage is actually 86.7% (https://dcpcsb.org/basis-dc-pcs-high-school) , and myschoolDC has their 3+ ELA percentage at 93.4 percent (https://www.myschooldc.org/schools/profile/138).

PP says they filtered for white students only. Although I don't know what is meant by "pass scores." 4s and 5s? Only 4s? Only 5s? Because this site gives different numbers as well: https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm admittedly not great at working with the PARCC data spreadsheets, but from what I can tell, EH's 7th grade math results for white kids* looks basically identical to all other schools, and even better than some DCUM favs:

% Meets/Exceeds:
EH - 84%
SH - 70%
Deal - 86%
Hardy - 81%
Basis - 87%
Latin - 82%
DCI- 69%

* I'm only breaking this down for white kids to dispel the notion that your privileged kid will not learn anything. I would love to do a deeper dive on how the MS do with educating other demographics but that's not really what the discussion is about here, is it?

For me it is. You’re comparing a tiny subset of all test takers at Elliot Hine to cherry pick data, when the data shows that the vast majority of kids at Elliot Hine are below grade level. The vast majority of kids are at or above grade level at all those other schools (except perhaps
SH). You cannot tell me that the learning environment at Elliot Hine is going to come close to the same level of education as those other schools when you have so many students struggling with grade level material.

Yes I can tell you that, because PARCC is heavily content based, and the kids like mine do exactly the same as they’d do at the more affluent Deal or sought-after Latin. And I can see my kid growing and maturing nicely, learning to manage his workload, get along with others, have fun, and all those good things along with being able to roll out of bed at 8am and walk to school.

You are delusional if you think students at EH are learning all the same material as students at Deal, Latin or BASIS. Proficient in PARCC material is the floor.

+1. And I call BS that families at EH don’t supplement and that very high performing kids are going there and getting what they need.

Some people on here are so strange. You literally have multiple parents who are on here sharing their actual experience, and from the outside anonymous keyboard accuse them of lying? Seems to say more about you if you think kids can't possibly do well without supplementing?
And separately, I think it is possible to agree both that kids in these middle schools are learning, and also agree that standardized tests don't actually measure a whole lot about the kids true skills/abilities. That is a whole separate thread for another time.

What motivates them is a psychological defense mechanism. They are so obsessed with the success of their own kids and the sacrifices they make, that they cannot accept that some families in their own demographic will make a different choice and do just fine. It shakes their world view.

I can speak to what motivates me. I know several EH families and they’re constantly trying to get other people to send their high performing kids to EH so their own children will have a good cohort because they struck out in the lottery. They come on this website and post misleading things about the test scores in every thread, including this one. If they truly thought the school was good, they wouldn’t be trying to change its demographics so desperately. It’s gross.

That’s quite a fairy tale. And the test scores posted here are accurate.

The test scores that have been posted for all students reflect that the majority of kids are well below grade level. Those are accurate and are not misleading. The poster that cherry picked one specific grade worth of a handful of white kids and tried to claim that EH is some kind of academic powerhouse is a different story. That was pure data manipulation and a gross attempt to mislead others.