S/O: how to parent in a low expectations, type B area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a similar area -- the answer is private school here. Luckily it is $10-15k a year for very strong privates, instead of $50k.

The local publics are in a race to the bottom performance-wise. Surround yourself with others who have similar values to yours. We are out there.

Do you think it’s sustainable to remain at a “top public” and supplement? I am hoping differentiation will help, but that doesn’t start until late elementary. Private here is more like $30-50k, and I’m not sure the emphasis is on academics there, judging by the websites.

A "top public" doesn't really mean anything if what you're seeing is that the kids are really behind and your kid is bored.

My best friend teaches at a "lower public" but it's very small and the kids get amazing, personalized instruction. It's almost a private school for free. So actual experience is worth a lot more than some rating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope you’re not for real. My kids were skip counting in 1st grade and shockingly made it through AP Calc. They attend UMD (gasp!) but they also were high stats. We know tons of kids with super high stats coming from magnets who also attend UMD. Coming from a strong MCPS school, many high stats kids won’t even get in. UMD is not a low bar. The only people who say that are those who haven’t been through the application process with kids in recent years. And what elementary parents use the term regional colleges/universities. Moving right along…there’s nothing wrong with not learning to read music until 4th grade. I’d guess that’s actually pretty common among Americans. My nephew who graduated from an Ivy certainly wasn’t hindered by it. Maybe these type B parents are on to something. Parents need to set some rules and boundaries but the best parents allow kids to develop on their own timetable, follow their natural curiosities and build a love of learning without pushing.

I’m sure your kid will turn out fine. That doesn’t mean everyone else who lives in a not so great neighborhood will turn out fine.

I have some friends from PG county. The ones I knew turned out well somehow ending up at ok universities. My friend went to naval academy. Many of his friends did not do well.

Lived in PG county for several years as a kid. How kids who started out life similar in abilities did depended on 1) family support (obviously), but also 2) whether they moved to a different area or not. Peer effect really did matter for some people and kids from less supportive families who moved to more competitive school districts did as well as kids from very supportive families who didn't.

Family support is so important. We used to live in Alexandria where there was a big range of SES. When kids were young, there were some very bright and athletic kids whose parents did not support them. Now they are teens with lackluster grades, play a lot of video games, no sports, etc. They will end up at some mediocre college. We moved and my kid plays three varsity sports, straight As with AP classes, lots of academic extracurriculars, etc. When the kids were younger, I would say those other kids were naturally brighter than my son and definitely more athletic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first step is to recognize that you don’t actually value education and achievement above all… you value parental bragging rights. That is why you are so concerned about these things when your child is only seven years old. You aren’t bothered by the alleged mediocrity you see around you. You are bothered because you are surrounded by people who are unimpressed that Larla takes violin AND piano and will therefore not give the “world’s bestest mother” validation you clearly crave.

That said, the only solution is to move. The chill people in your town are unlikely to change and will continue to be deeply unimpressed by your striving.

This is it. Unfortunately, OP will be just as unfulfilled in a tiger parent environment where nothing is ever good enough to impress other parents because some other tiger parent is doing it better than you. Such an exhausting way of life.

What a weird claim. That is not what I took from this at all. Do you think the mothers of Bethesda (and other type A parents in competitive schools) would be impressed that OP does math supplements?

Living in an area like (well, probably worse) than what OP describes, I completely understand her question.

No, they wouldn't be impressed. That is the point of the comment!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So important to have an ambitious peer group. That is the reason we ended up moving to an expensive zip code. Unfortunately, institutional racism and historic inequity notwithstanding, income and ambition are closely correlated.

I posted on the other thread and wrote this and was basically told I was bragging. We moved from a low SES neighborhood to a high SES neighborhood. The kids and families are night and day. In the old neighborhood, many kids don’t even go to college or may end up at community college. In our new school, my kids are surrounded by kids whose parents are very well educated. The parents attended top universities and grad schools. We are in touch with a few people from our old school and they may visit George Mason and Virginia tech. In my son’s friend group, many parents attended Ivy or other similar top colleges, are physicians, lawyers, executives, etc. in the old neighborhood, Penn state may be the goal. UPenn would be a top choice at our school. Many people in the old neighborhood probably would not know the difference between Penn State and UPenn.

They probably don't even eat Grey Poupon!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not a tiger mom necessarily. Hopefully not creating anxiety filled pressure cooker but yes, I believe in pushing kids to help achieve their potential. I’m living in a low pressure “meh whatever kids, play some video games and eat some candy” area where people don’t show up to half the things they sign up for, let alone practice on their own. Kids don’t play instruments or even learn to read music until band starts in 4th or 5th grade. In first grade they are still working on skip counting by 5s and 10s and adding sums within 20, and kids are struggling with it.

At a recent activity, I heard a cluster of moms loudly deriding college admissions (“What the point? Larlo can just go to x regional low tier state. It’s the same as if he goes to U Maryland! It’s not like he will get a better job so who cares?). Meanwhile I’m sitting there wondering why she thinks the highest bar is UMD. By the way, I’m not in Maryland, just an example.

I’m sure I’ll get trolled, but I am actually troubled by the lack of standards all around. This is a supposed to be a top district in my state. DD is 7 and is the only kid in her class who can tell time, takes music lessons, and is one of 2 kids who does supplemental math. How do I keep this up when all around us kids are just playing on iPads, eating junk. and not showing up for sports practice? Go ahead, troll me.

Homeschool, and/or find a community of like-minded parents. Try visiting optional enrichment events that would attract parents who care (e.g. spelling bees, math competitions, tutoring/enrichment centers) - the parents there will very likely be the type to care about their kids education and college outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, you send them to elite summer camps in other areas. You visit family if those family are more academic. You travel. You travel internationally. They aim for top awards. They do Governor's School if your state has it. You probably need to zero-in on private schools for college, that's has geographic diversity. Your in-state might be more of the same. I think public universities are great. That's where our family went but we were going out-of-state expanding our horizons. Certainly more than regional universities would offer.

Please give examples of elite summer camps. Most are just cash grabs.

Epsilon camp, Mathpath (I wouldn't call these two "elite" but they're not chasggrabs), Canada-USA MathCamp, RSI, SSP, etc. You can lurk /r/summerprogramresults to learn more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in an area like you described. Really bad public schools. Neither of my parents went to college (though they had a successful business). My friends had small goals. I did a competitive sport about 30 minutes away where my peer group was all from Type A families. My parents learned from their parents about tutoring and a good, gifted summer program at a local college, etc. (I wasn't gifted, but I have always had a strong work ethic and drive). I did well in my sport and attended a good college. My younger siblings followed a similar trajectory. I know there was more to it, but I attribute much of my trajectory to participating in a competitive sport.

I think the Type A connection was the bigger deal. If your peer group's parents were only Type A for sports and didn't care about academics, you would likely have had very different outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in an area like you described. Really bad public schools. Neither of my parents went to college (though they had a successful business). My friends had small goals. I did a competitive sport about 30 minutes away where my peer group was all from Type A families. My parents learned from their parents about tutoring and a good, gifted summer program at a local college, etc. (I wasn't gifted, but I have always had a strong work ethic and drive). I did well in my sport and attended a good college. My younger siblings followed a similar trajectory. I know there was more to it, but I attribute much of my trajectory to participating in a competitive sport.

I think the Type A connection was the bigger deal. If your peer group's parents were only Type A for sports and didn't care about academics, you would likely have had very different outcomes.

This was the culture I grew up in, more emphasis on sports than academics. The bright self motivated kids did well anyway. Most people stayed within state for college, don't have high profile careers, and are honestly living better in our LCOL rural area as teachers, nurses, mechanics etc than I do here in the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in an area like you described. Really bad public schools. Neither of my parents went to college (though they had a successful business). My friends had small goals. I did a competitive sport about 30 minutes away where my peer group was all from Type A families. My parents learned from their parents about tutoring and a good, gifted summer program at a local college, etc. (I wasn't gifted, but I have always had a strong work ethic and drive). I did well in my sport and attended a good college. My younger siblings followed a similar trajectory. I know there was more to it, but I attribute much of my trajectory to participating in a competitive sport.

I think the Type A connection was the bigger deal. If your peer group's parents were only Type A for sports and didn't care about academics, you would likely have had very different outcomes.

This was the culture I grew up in, more emphasis on sports than academics. The bright self motivated kids did well anyway. Most people stayed within state for college, don't have high profile careers, and are honestly living better in our LCOL rural area as teachers, nurses, mechanics etc than I do here in the DMV.

This is the ugly truth that drives the DCUM competitive Type-A’s absolutely crazy.

[Anonymous]

Are there homeschoolers in your area you could connect up with for extracurricular like Science Odyssey and so on? You will either have to move or supplement. The trick is going to be to supplement in a way that doesn’t ensure your kid is extra bored by her classes at school. So supplement with things that complement or relate to school topics. Do online programs, extra field trip excursions for the family, and keep seeking out the other handful of people there might be who want to push their kids. You can also have your kid focus on something where they can push for excellence, like science fairs or geography bowls or whatever, that have a regional/state/national scope.

[Anonymous]

OP I totally get what you mean and don’t think you’re a crazy tiger parent. If other parents were having their kids focus on their interests vs academics, that wouldn’t bother me either (music, sports, art, writing, dance, whatever). But parents who think TV for 5-6 hours on a day off is totally fine and who don’t put their kids in any activities or push them to excel at at least one thing to teach the value of hard work are totally different. It will be hard for your kid not to be influenced by peers and they will push back on you more. Growing up in NYC I saw what my MC/1st gen Asian classmates had to do afterschool/on the weekend and it made my parents seem low key… even though if I described my upbringing, folks here would absolutely describe my parents as Type A/Tiger-lites at least. My parents benefited from the relative comparison because I didn’t push back or rebel because their demands seemed so reasonable and I had so much freedom comparatively speaking. As I got older and met some really rich UES types through school, I was jealous of how little was expected of them/how much freedom they had… but my habits were sufficiently ingrained by then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first step is to recognize that you don’t actually value education and achievement above all… you value parental bragging rights. That is why you are so concerned about these things when your child is only seven years old. You aren’t bothered by the alleged mediocrity you see around you. You are bothered because you are surrounded by people who are unimpressed that Larla takes violin AND piano and will therefore not give the “world’s bestest mother” validation you clearly crave.

That said, the only solution is to move. The chill people in your town are unlikely to change and will continue to be deeply unimpressed by your striving.

This is it. Unfortunately, OP will be just as unfulfilled in a tiger parent environment where nothing is ever good enough to impress other parents because some other tiger parent is doing it better than you. Such an exhausting way of life.

What a weird claim. That is not what I took from this at all. Do you think the mothers of Bethesda (and other type A parents in competitive schools) would be impressed that OP does math supplements?

Living in an area like (well, probably worse) than what OP describes, I completely understand her question.

I’m a mother in Bethesda and my kids are doing exactly what OP describes. Skip counting and addition to 20 in first grade, first instrument though school in fourth grade. That’s pretty standard in public schools. It happens that one of my kids does play an instrument outside of school but that’s because he asked to. And he only started it in third grade so he’s not exactly a prodigy.

What I see as “tiger” around here are the competitive sports. My kids are active but not sporty, but some of their friends are on multiple travel teams and it consumes their whole weekend and social life. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Golf or tennis lessons if they’re into it. Both are good ways to put yourself around ambitious people, but it only really works if you like it.