Charter vs public (elementary)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am not sure whether the charter middle schools are better options. People are turned off by the test scores at McFarland but the few families I know that have attended are having a really good experience and many more resources than the charters listed above. Charters may be good for those that have kids that need something more than a traditional curriculum. But if you want your kids to learn the traditional curriculum DCPS is definitely better.

The conversations I've had with parents who are having good experiences at DCPS middle schools with bad test scores -- it becomes quickly apparent that they're not paying a lot of attention beyond the vibes. Like, they think their kid is getting advanced math and don't realize the "advanced" track includes a lot of kids below grade level.

My kid is in a DCPS middle like this and, yes, it seems like kids who aren't that good at math are also in my kid's classes. But my kid aces all the standardized tests and is learning the material, so . . . my eyes are open. Don't really care that my kid could be at Deal with white kids who play video games night and day who are supposedly this kid's natural cohort or peer group or wtf you want to call it. Those kids' proximity is not some fing magic sauce.

Name the school and tell us how much you are actually have to supplement…….

How much can you really supplement in middle school? You can't teach them geometry on your own in order to get credit for that class. You can't teach a language at home in a way that will compare to a daily class.

My guess is that people supplement the same at a “bad” MS as at a good one. The tiger parents supplement either way. And kids like mine who need additional support would need it at either school.

There is less supplementing happening at a "bad" MS, because most families at those schools are fine with the way things are. Supplementing happens more at "good" schools, which is the reason they are good in the first place.

So you’re saying they wouldn’t be “good” if their student population wasn’t well resourced. Got it.

Correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure whether the charter middle schools are better options. People are turned off by the test scores at McFarland but the few families I know that have attended are having a really good experience and many more resources than the charters listed above. Charters may be good for those that have kids that need something more than a traditional curriculum. But if you want your kids to learn the traditional curriculum DCPS is definitely better.

The conversations I've had with parents who are having good experiences at DCPS middle schools with bad test scores -- it becomes quickly apparent that they're not paying a lot of attention beyond the vibes. Like, they think their kid is getting advanced math and don't realize the "advanced" track includes a lot of kids below grade level.

My kid is in a DCPS middle like this and, yes, it seems like kids who aren't that good at math are also in my kid's classes. But my kid aces all the standardized tests and is learning the material, so . . . my eyes are open. Don't really care that my kid could be at Deal with white kids who play video games night and day who are supposedly this kid's natural cohort or peer group or wtf you want to call it. Those kids' proximity is not some fing magic sauce.

Name the school and tell us how much you are actually have to supplement…….

How much can you really supplement in middle school? You can't teach them geometry on your own in order to get credit for that class. You can't teach a language at home in a way that will compare to a daily class.

My guess is that people supplement the same at a “bad” MS as at a good one. The tiger parents supplement either way. And kids like mine who need additional support would need it at either school.

There is less supplementing happening at a "bad" MS, because most families at those schools are fine with the way things are. Supplementing happens more at "good" schools, which is the reason they are good in the first place.

You got the 1st part right that most parents are not supplementing at the bad schools and their kids continue to perform way below grade level.

As to the 2nd part, nope. Majority of families at schools like Deal are not supplementing because Deal can serve the on grade and above grade level students well. The ones that are likely supplementing are if their kids are below grade level.

You can tell yourself the myth that majority of families at good schools are supplementing but they are not.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess the thing is that when my kids were getting ready for Pk-3 and I was visiting all these new charter schools with their fancy curriculums, I was under the impression that all these charter schools are better than DCPS. But even with an average DCPS school, you get regular science fairs, school shows, maybe some sports teams in older grades, a basic science class etc etc. I don’t think charter school can provide this reliably from year to year. Their admins are shears changing and nothing is consistent year to year.

The hype game is very strong at charters, while DCPS open houses are more fact based. When I was doing the lottery years ago, I had no idea of the differences even in ECE -- like that DCPS caps the PK3 class at 16, with a teacher with a master's degree plus an aide, whereas most charters cap at 22 with less qualified teachers. DCPS has a library, charters very few did. Etc. DCPS uses "science of reading" to teach kids how to read, most charters disnt. took years of being able within a DCPS with friends in charters to realize the difference.

Agree with this 100%. For parents currently doing pk3/4 lottery for charters should really keep this in mind.

Above is hilarious with DCPS boosters who desperately want families to list their schools. People like this who make sweeping generalizations, you can totally ignore.

Our child was in a great charter for ECE with teacher with master degree and an aide with 18 kids. Reading was phonics based. Amazing facilities and field trips. Great PTO and events. Great communication from teachers and admin.

It’s school dependent. There is no sweeping generalization.

Lastly, ECE goes by real fast and the real test starts in 1st, 2nd grade where the achievement gap gets much bigger.

[Anonymous]

I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

What's described here was not my children's experience at an EOTP charter at all, which was significantly more advanced than our IB where I tutored for three years. But my kids' are long past elementary school and maybe things have changed post-pandemic, so not worth arguing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure whether the charter middle schools are better options. People are turned off by the test scores at McFarland but the few families I know that have attended are having a really good experience and many more resources than the charters listed above. Charters may be good for those that have kids that need something more than a traditional curriculum. But if you want your kids to learn the traditional curriculum DCPS is definitely better.

The conversations I've had with parents who are having good experiences at DCPS middle schools with bad test scores -- it becomes quickly apparent that they're not paying a lot of attention beyond the vibes. Like, they think their kid is getting advanced math and don't realize the "advanced" track includes a lot of kids below grade level.

My kid is in a DCPS middle like this and, yes, it seems like kids who aren't that good at math are also in my kid's classes. But my kid aces all the standardized tests and is learning the material, so . . . my eyes are open. Don't really care that my kid could be at Deal with white kids who play video games night and day who are supposedly this kid's natural cohort or peer group or wtf you want to call it. Those kids' proximity is not some fing magic sauce.

Name the school and tell us how much you are actually have to supplement…….

How much can you really supplement in middle school? You can't teach them geometry on your own in order to get credit for that class. You can't teach a language at home in a way that will compare to a daily class.

My guess is that people supplement the same at a “bad” MS as at a good one. The tiger parents supplement either way. And kids like mine who need additional support would need it at either school.

There is less supplementing happening at a "bad" MS, because most families at those schools are fine with the way things are. Supplementing happens more at "good" schools, which is the reason they are good in the first place.

So you’re saying they wouldn’t be “good” if their student population wasn’t well resourced. Got it.

Not PP but it’s no secret that this is what differentiates schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

No, DCUM is stridently pro-DCPS. I think this is because DCUM is largely WOTP, where the DCPS's are decent. But then these posters act like they are doing god's work, etc etc etc by supporting unions, blah blah blah.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

I think we’ve seen many of the “HRCS” fall apart especially in the upper grades, like CMI, MV and TR. Conversely many of the DCPSs seem to have gotten stronger including through MS and HS - 5 years ago nobody would have considered McKinley an option for example. That said there are still strong charter options but I think people are not under the impression any more that there’s a dichotomy between the “bad IB DCPS” and the “amazing charter.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

No, DCUM is stridently pro-DCPS. I think this is because DCUM is largely WOTP, where the DCPS's are decent. But then these posters act like they are doing god's work, etc etc etc by supporting unions, blah blah blah.

Nah. There are lots of parents on here who gave DCPS schools like Payne and Garrison and shot and are happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

No, DCUM is stridently pro-DCPS. I think this is because DCUM is largely WOTP, where the DCPS's are decent. But then these posters act like they are doing god's work, etc etc etc by supporting unions, blah blah blah.

Nah. There are lots of parents on here who gave DCPS schools like Payne and Garrison and shot and are happy.

This. In Bloomingdale and ended up "pleasantly surprised" (in quotes because every single other PK family said this over and over) with our DCPS school 7 years ago, whereas every family I know that lotteried into MV, CM, and TR has since left the school, sorely disappointed. ITS and Yu Ying seems to be places where families stuck around, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

No, DCUM is stridently pro-DCPS. I think this is because DCUM is largely WOTP, where the DCPS's are decent. But then these posters act like they are doing god's work, etc etc etc by supporting unions, blah blah blah.

Nah. There are lots of parents on here who gave DCPS schools like Payne and Garrison and shot and are happy.

This. In Bloomingdale and ended up "pleasantly surprised" (in quotes because every single other PK family said this over and over) with our DCPS school 7 years ago, whereas every family I know that lotteried into MV, CM, and TR has since left the school, sorely disappointed. ITS and Yu Ying seems to be places where families stuck around, though.

What's the IB MS and HS in Bloomingdale and will you be sending your child there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

No, DCUM is stridently pro-DCPS. I think this is because DCUM is largely WOTP, where the DCPS's are decent. But then these posters act like they are doing god's work, etc etc etc by supporting unions, blah blah blah.

Nah. There are lots of parents on here who gave DCPS schools like Payne and Garrison and shot and are happy.

This. In Bloomingdale and ended up "pleasantly surprised" (in quotes because every single other PK family said this over and over) with our DCPS school 7 years ago, whereas every family I know that lotteried into MV, CM, and TR has since left the school, sorely disappointed. ITS and Yu Ying seems to be places where families stuck around, though.

that’s right. the appeal of sending your kid to the school down the street is huge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

No, DCUM is stridently pro-DCPS. I think this is because DCUM is largely WOTP, where the DCPS's are decent. But then these posters act like they are doing god's work, etc etc etc by supporting unions, blah blah blah.

Nah. There are lots of parents on here who gave DCPS schools like Payne and Garrison and shot and are happy.

This. In Bloomingdale and ended up "pleasantly surprised" (in quotes because every single other PK family said this over and over) with our DCPS school 7 years ago, whereas every family I know that lotteried into MV, CM, and TR has since left the school, sorely disappointed. ITS and Yu Ying seems to be places where families stuck around, though.

100% agree. The improvements at Langley and Garrison are very, very real. Of course there is a long way to go yet, at Langley, but still. I'm not sure why Mundo, CMI and TR are struggling when ITS, YY, DCB are doing well. Stokes and Lee are kind of in-between. The past few years has really opened people's eyes that charters aren't *necessarily* better, and that you can think you have a good thing locked in and then see it fall apart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

No, DCUM is stridently pro-DCPS. I think this is because DCUM is largely WOTP, where the DCPS's are decent. But then these posters act like they are doing god's work, etc etc etc by supporting unions, blah blah blah.

Nah. There are lots of parents on here who gave DCPS schools like Payne and Garrison and shot and are happy.

This. In Bloomingdale and ended up "pleasantly surprised" (in quotes because every single other PK family said this over and over) with our DCPS school 7 years ago, whereas every family I know that lotteried into MV, CM, and TR has since left the school, sorely disappointed. ITS and Yu Ying seems to be places where families stuck around, though.

What's the IB MS and HS in Bloomingdale and will you be sending your child there.

I mean, right back atcha for charters. With the possible exception of DCI feeders, there’s no charter elementary with a clear path to MS and HS feeders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to think DCUM was very pro charter but this thread makes me think the DCPS contingent has won out.

No, DCUM is stridently pro-DCPS. I think this is because DCUM is largely WOTP, where the DCPS's are decent. But then these posters act like they are doing god's work, etc etc etc by supporting unions, blah blah blah.

Nah. There are lots of parents on here who gave DCPS schools like Payne and Garrison and shot and are happy.

This. In Bloomingdale and ended up "pleasantly surprised" (in quotes because every single other PK family said this over and over) with our DCPS school 7 years ago, whereas every family I know that lotteried into MV, CM, and TR has since left the school, sorely disappointed. ITS and Yu Ying seems to be places where families stuck around, though.

What's the IB MS and HS in Bloomingdale and will you be sending your child there.

I mean, right back atcha for charters. With the possible exception of DCI feeders, there’s no charter elementary with a clear path to MS and HS feeders.

To actually answer this question, the IB middle and high schools are McKinley Middle and Dunbar, which are a no go for many people. However, between Latin, Latin Cooper, BASIS, ITS, DCI if you're into that (for the time being), Sojourner Truth if you're into that, and Stuart-Hobson, it's reasonable to think middle school will work out. People with younger kids are hopeful about the new Euclid St middle school, even if living OOB for it. For high school, there are the application schools, Truth if you're into that, a slim shot at Latin and Latin Cooper, and the possibility of MacArthur if you don't mind a long bus ride. So while the situation is definitely not great, it's also not terrible-- I think for preschool and lower elementary age kids, it's very reasonable to stay in the neighborhood for a few years and see what shakes out.

Last year was the first year I've noticed people willing to run the clock at Langley through 4th.