Charter vs public (elementary)

[Anonymous]

Most interesting to me about charters, having seen our kids through elementary now, is that while they have the upside and opportunity to be more responsive to parents and student desires and needs, the level of institutional instability has surprised many and caused problems.

Charter families definitely seem to have expectations of DCPS and PCS and have higher expectations of charters. On several scores: testing, curriculum, responsiveness, teacher quality and flexibility. But also less publicly on other things like demographics and family and staff turnover.

My impression has been that PCS parents expect high test scores for their demographic of students and school leadership to not change while bending over backwards to do what parents want, and that they are prepared to vote with their feet at the next lottery, or earlier. It's a high wire act for the PCS leaders, partly one of their own creation because they are explicitly or implicitly supposed to be 'better' which means many things to many people, sometimes in contradictory ways.

I could say more, but wonder what others think.

I'd just say, being a DCPS parent in our EOTP ungentrified school (with a few obstinate white(ish) 'gentrifers' like us in it) is kind of like being a fan of the DMV. You want it to work well and serve everyone, but know in the back of your mind it's just another bureaucracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ward 4 parent here. For elementary I completely agree with PP. DCPS may be uneven, but there are elementary seats at DCPS schools that outperform the popular charters (with the exception of Yu Ying). It’s both the curriculum, admin, and the resources from being part of a big LEA. But it’s the reverse in middle school. For a Ward 4 parent who doesn’t want to gamble on a winning lottery number in fifth, the charter options are miles better than DCPS (primarily DCI, but also IT, ELH, CC for some families), and you have to secure that feeder pattern in elementary.

Not sure how one can make such sweeping generalizations. For instance, Bancroft is a highly coveted school for its Deal feed, but it’s math scores are below most of the DCI feeders in Wards 4/5. I know they are lower than DCB, LAMB, Stokes-B and Mundo C8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward 4 parent here. For elementary I completely agree with PP. DCPS may be uneven, but there are elementary seats at DCPS schools that outperform the popular charters (with the exception of Yu Ying). It’s both the curriculum, admin, and the resources from being part of a big LEA. But it’s the reverse in middle school. For a Ward 4 parent who doesn’t want to gamble on a winning lottery number in fifth, the charter options are miles better than DCPS (primarily DCI, but also IT, ELH, CC for some families), and you have to secure that feeder pattern in elementary.

Not sure how one can make such sweeping generalizations. For instance, Bancroft is a highly coveted school for its Deal feed, but it’s math scores are below most of the DCI feeders in Wards 4/5. I know they are lower than DCB, LAMB, Stokes-B and Mundo C8.

I thought this was a weird comment for different reasons. Why is Yu Ying special?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward 4 parent here. For elementary I completely agree with PP. DCPS may be uneven, but there are elementary seats at DCPS schools that outperform the popular charters (with the exception of Yu Ying). It’s both the curriculum, admin, and the resources from being part of a big LEA. But it’s the reverse in middle school. For a Ward 4 parent who doesn’t want to gamble on a winning lottery number in fifth, the charter options are miles better than DCPS (primarily DCI, but also IT, ELH, CC for some families), and you have to secure that feeder pattern in elementary.

Not sure how one can make such sweeping generalizations. For instance, Bancroft is a highly coveted school for its Deal feed, but it’s math scores are below most of the DCI feeders in Wards 4/5. I know they are lower than DCB, LAMB, Stokes-B and Mundo C8.

The problem with this type of thread is the sweeping generalization. In addition, people claim to know how good or bad some schools are when they don’t have any kids in. You cannot judge a school for what you read here.

I chose a charter instead of a Ward 4 school and I never say anything bad about my IB because my kids never attended, so I know nothing about it. So far I am very happy with my decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charter vs public (since in DC all charters are also public) and even DC public charter vs DCPS aren't helpful comparisons because the experiences are so uneven. All DCPS schools aren't equal and neither are all public charter schools.

Do you have a question or are you sharing experience you think would be helpful to others? I wonder how you know about the academic experience at all of the Ward 4 and 5 charter schools to be able to compare to what your friends say about Shepherd and Barnard. Plenty of DCPS schools offer unreliable experiences, it just sounds like you happen to live in a neighborhood where you would have been happy with the local DCPS ES and are now wondering why you went with another option.

DCPS schools can differ on the margins (like project based stuff) but the curriculum is largely uniform across all the elementary schools.

There are elementary schools where half the kids are getting 1s on the PARCC. Don't teachers to some extent modify what they're teaching to meet students where they are, regardless of what the curriculum says?

As a parent at a DCPS school where some kids are getting 1s but mine got 5s, the teachers rely heavily on small groups and they push each group as far as they are able to. A minority of time is spent on common instruction.

No they don’t. This is the great lie parents tell themselves. Differentiation does not actually work. It shortchanges all of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure whether the charter middle schools are better options. People are turned off by the test scores at McFarland but the few families I know that have attended are having a really good experience and many more resources than the charters listed above. Charters may be good for those that have kids that need something more than a traditional curriculum. But if you want your kids to learn the traditional curriculum DCPS is definitely better.

The conversations I've had with parents who are having good experiences at DCPS middle schools with bad test scores -- it becomes quickly apparent that they're not paying a lot of attention beyond the vibes. Like, they think their kid is getting advanced math and don't realize the "advanced" track includes a lot of kids below grade level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure whether the charter middle schools are better options. People are turned off by the test scores at McFarland but the few families I know that have attended are having a really good experience and many more resources than the charters listed above. Charters may be good for those that have kids that need something more than a traditional curriculum. But if you want your kids to learn the traditional curriculum DCPS is definitely better.

The conversations I've had with parents who are having good experiences at DCPS middle schools with bad test scores -- it becomes quickly apparent that they're not paying a lot of attention beyond the vibes. Like, they think their kid is getting advanced math and don't realize the "advanced" track includes a lot of kids below grade level.

I’m well aware of how behind my kid is in some areas. But there are a lot of positives about the school too - social, sports, etc. At the end of the day, takes some faith in your kid and a belief that they don’t have to be going after the golden ring at 11. The school is a warm, safe and positive place, they have friends, developing their own interests, and are not stressed. No they are not getting the same academic experience as at a rich public district. However my child can freestyle rap (lol) and knows how to be comfortable in an environment where he is not the majority. He also is aware of how fortunate he is financially. Is it the best? No. Is it horrible? Absolutely not.

[Anonymous]

test scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure whether the charter middle schools are better options. People are turned off by the test scores at McFarland but the few families I know that have attended are having a really good experience and many more resources than the charters listed above. Charters may be good for those that have kids that need something more than a traditional curriculum. But if you want your kids to learn the traditional curriculum DCPS is definitely better.

The conversations I've had with parents who are having good experiences at DCPS middle schools with bad test scores -- it becomes quickly apparent that they're not paying a lot of attention beyond the vibes. Like, they think their kid is getting advanced math and don't realize the "advanced" track includes a lot of kids below grade level.

My kid is in a DCPS middle like this and, yes, it seems like kids who aren't that good at math are also in my kid's classes. But my kid aces all the standardized tests and is learning the material, so . . . my eyes are open. Don't really care that my kid could be at Deal with white kids who play video games night and day who are supposedly this kid's natural cohort or peer group or wtf you want to call it. Those kids' proximity is not some fing magic sauce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure whether the charter middle schools are better options. People are turned off by the test scores at McFarland but the few families I know that have attended are having a really good experience and many more resources than the charters listed above. Charters may be good for those that have kids that need something more than a traditional curriculum. But if you want your kids to learn the traditional curriculum DCPS is definitely better.

The conversations I've had with parents who are having good experiences at DCPS middle schools with bad test scores -- it becomes quickly apparent that they're not paying a lot of attention beyond the vibes. Like, they think their kid is getting advanced math and don't realize the "advanced" track includes a lot of kids below grade level.

My kid is in a DCPS middle like this and, yes, it seems like kids who aren't that good at math are also in my kid's classes. But my kid aces all the standardized tests and is learning the material, so . . . my eyes are open. Don't really care that my kid could be at Deal with white kids who play video games night and day who are supposedly this kid's natural cohort or peer group or wtf you want to call it. Those kids' proximity is not some fing magic sauce.

I think that's the thing -- it's not just a difference in cohort in middle school (the way that it is in elementary school). The better DCPS middle schools actually have harder classes and more material built into the curriculum. They have geometry. They have better science labs. The kids read more books in their English classes. They have more language options.

It's a very tough decision. I'm EOTP with kids approaching middle school and agonizing over this

[Anonymous]

I guess the thing is that when my kids were getting ready for Pk-3 and I was visiting all these new charter schools with their fancy curriculums, I was under the impression that all these charter schools are better than DCPS. But even with an average DCPS school, you get regular science fairs, school shows, maybe some sports teams in older grades, a basic science class etc etc. I don’t think charter school can provide this reliably from year to year. Their admins are shears changing and nothing is consistent year to year.

[Anonymous]

If you’re east of the park and thing the better DCPS schools have better resources, that maybe true. But your avg EOTP DCPS school has more resources than any charter. It’s false to think the charters are better. Our has been around for 20 years and while it’s ok, they are still struggling with just figuring out a basic standard curriculum and admin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure whether the charter middle schools are better options. People are turned off by the test scores at McFarland but the few families I know that have attended are having a really good experience and many more resources than the charters listed above. Charters may be good for those that have kids that need something more than a traditional curriculum. But if you want your kids to learn the traditional curriculum DCPS is definitely better.

The conversations I've had with parents who are having good experiences at DCPS middle schools with bad test scores -- it becomes quickly apparent that they're not paying a lot of attention beyond the vibes. Like, they think their kid is getting advanced math and don't realize the "advanced" track includes a lot of kids below grade level.

I’m well aware of how behind my kid is in some areas. But there are a lot of positives about the school too - social, sports, etc. At the end of the day, takes some faith in your kid and a belief that they don’t have to be going after the golden ring at 11. The school is a warm, safe and positive place, they have friends, developing their own interests, and are not stressed. No they are not getting the same academic experience as at a rich public district. However my child can freestyle rap (lol) and knows how to be comfortable in an environment where he is not the majority. He also is aware of how fortunate he is financially. Is it the best? No. Is it horrible? Absolutely not.

I sure hope you are supplementing a lot because he is not going to be prepared for high school unless you plan on sending him to the status quo. He sure won’t be prepared for college either.

You do you but no, none of the BS stuff above is going to compensate for a rigorous and comprehensive academic program with a good cohort of peer groups for our kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure whether the charter middle schools are better options. People are turned off by the test scores at McFarland but the few families I know that have attended are having a really good experience and many more resources than the charters listed above. Charters may be good for those that have kids that need something more than a traditional curriculum. But if you want your kids to learn the traditional curriculum DCPS is definitely better.

The conversations I've had with parents who are having good experiences at DCPS middle schools with bad test scores -- it becomes quickly apparent that they're not paying a lot of attention beyond the vibes. Like, they think their kid is getting advanced math and don't realize the "advanced" track includes a lot of kids below grade level.

My kid is in a DCPS middle like this and, yes, it seems like kids who aren't that good at math are also in my kid's classes. But my kid aces all the standardized tests and is learning the material, so . . . my eyes are open. Don't really care that my kid could be at Deal with white kids who play video games night and day who are supposedly this kid's natural cohort or peer group or wtf you want to call it. Those kids' proximity is not some fing magic sauce.

Name the school and tell us how much you are actually have to supplement…….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure whether the charter middle schools are better options. People are turned off by the test scores at McFarland but the few families I know that have attended are having a really good experience and many more resources than the charters listed above. Charters may be good for those that have kids that need something more than a traditional curriculum. But if you want your kids to learn the traditional curriculum DCPS is definitely better.

The conversations I've had with parents who are having good experiences at DCPS middle schools with bad test scores -- it becomes quickly apparent that they're not paying a lot of attention beyond the vibes. Like, they think their kid is getting advanced math and don't realize the "advanced" track includes a lot of kids below grade level.

My kid is in a DCPS middle like this and, yes, it seems like kids who aren't that good at math are also in my kid's classes. But my kid aces all the standardized tests and is learning the material, so . . . my eyes are open. Don't really care that my kid could be at Deal with white kids who play video games night and day who are supposedly this kid's natural cohort or peer group or wtf you want to call it. Those kids' proximity is not some fing magic sauce.

Name the school and tell us how much you are actually have to supplement…….

I mean all the stress queen tiger moms are supplementing anyway, so what’s the difference?